[Archived] Bowyer

[Parsonblue]

Chaddy, believe me or not that is your choice. Many unemployed managers would jump at the opportunity to manage at Rovers regardless of our lunatic owners, I do not see budget as being the main issue as to whether we would get a new manager or not.....the issue is too many managers and wannabe managers and too few opportunities. However it would be a massive challenge given our resources and the need to please the owners.

I agree miracles can't be expected. What we will get is mid-table mediocracy at the very best and probably a fair bit of courting with potential relegation.

Times are going to be VERY tough.

Nothing new there pb. Personally, I think you are probably spot on with regard to budget cuts and I suspect that you will be right about our prospects in terms of League position. I don't expect Rhodes, Hanley, Dunny or Robbo to be here next season. There has been a huge clear out at Under-21 and Under-18 level and I suspect the end of the season will see the same with the senior squad. One of the reasons I want to stick with Gary and the present coaching staff is because they have all worked with youngsters at Academy level and I suspect that we are going to have to rely on young players to rebuild the club. Like you, I think we are just at the start of a long tough journey.

[Mike Graham]

Nothing new there pb. Personally, I think you are probably spot on with regard to budget cuts and I suspect that you will be right about our prospects in terms of League position. I don't expect Rhodes, Hanley, Dunny or Robbo to be here next season. There has been a huge clear out at Under-21 and Under-18 level and I suspect the end of the season will see the same with the senior squad. One of the reasons I want to stick with Gary and the present coaching staff is because they have all worked with youngsters at Academy level and I suspect that we are going to have to rely on young players to rebuild the club. Like you, I think we are just at the start of a long tough journey.

I do see your point re GB and youth, he is making some good decisions there. I expect like many I have little patience and want instant improvement.....it won't happen. Keep up with the match reports please, they are excellent.

[Parsonblue]

I do see your point re GB and youth, he is making some good decisions there. I expect like many I have little patience and want instant improvement.....it won't happen. Keep up with the match reports please, they are excellent.

Thanks pb. I'm starting the match reports again beginning with last night's match.

[AggyBlue]

Nothing new there pb. Personally, I think you are probably spot on with regard to budget cuts and I suspect that you will be right about our prospects in terms of League position. I don't expect Rhodes, Hanley, Dunny or Robbo to be here next season. There has been a huge clear out at Under-21 and Under-18 level and I suspect the end of the season will see the same with the senior squad. One of the reasons I want to stick with Gary and the present coaching staff is because they have all worked with youngsters at Academy level and I suspect that we are going to have to rely on young players to rebuild the club. Like you, I think we are just at the start of a long tough journey.

Spot on, I agree with all that.

My worry will be keeping hold of good young players once they have proved themselves. Could we keep hold of them long enough to build a promotion chasing team or would we need to keep selling to finance the club.

[Parsonblue]

Spot on, I agree with all that.

My worry will be keeping hold of good young players once they have proved themselves. Could we keep hold of them long enough to build a promotion chasing team or would we need to keep selling to finance the club.

Totally agree Aggy, that is the big worry. We know from past experience that we have seen talented youngsters leave the club - Bradshaw, Hird, Bailey, Barker etc - because we needed the money to keep the club afloat. Much will depend on if the owners have the ability to withstand the financial losses and are prepared to withstand them for another two, three or four years. Sadly, there are no short term solutions to our problems.

[chaddyrovers]

Chaddy, believe me or not that is your choice. Many unemployed managers would jump at the opportunity to manage at Rovers regardless of our lunatic owners, I do not see budget as being the main issue as to whether we would get a new manager or not.....the issue is too many managers and wannabe managers and too few opportunities. However it would be a massive challenge given our resources and the need to please the owners.

I agree miracles can't be expected. What we will get is mid-table mediocracy at the very best and probably a fair bit of courting with potential relegation.

Times are going to be VERY tough.

I not doubting u PB.

i was asking is it from good realible source??!

Times are going to be very tough going forward. budgets cuts, etc

[den]

Seems to me that the arguments for keeping Bowyer next season have moved almost 100% to "we can't find anyone better". For goodness sake lads (and lasses) argue his positives. I can make a good case based on footballing argument why he's not the man, so why can't his supporters make a case out, based on his footballing qualities?

The last 8 games have been rewarded with 7 points. That's relegation form. Where are the pointers that we're actually going anywhere?

[chaddyrovers]

Seems to me that the arguments for keeping Bowyer next season have moved almost 100% to "we can't find anyone better". For goodness sake lads (and lasses) argue his positives. I can make a good case based on footballing argument why he's not the man, so why can't his supporters make a case out, based on his footballing qualities?

The last 8 games have been rewarded with 7 points. That's relegation form. Where are the pointers that we're actually going anywhere?

look at the good players he has signed for the first team like Spurr, Cairney, Evans, Conway, Marshall, Kilgallon, Gestede.

signed some poor squad players tho.

but crucially Bowyer has show he can develop young players for the first team and these players above have improve alot under his management.

Last night we played some really good attacking football. Last night mistakes cost us and some very poor keeper cost us. Robinson should have saved the first 2 goals. hope we get in good Experience goalkeeper like Westwood from Sunderland would be a good choice imo

[Blue blood]

Seems to me that the arguments for keeping Bowyer next season have moved almost 100% to "we can't find anyone better". For goodness sake lads (and lasses) argue his positives. I can make a good case based on footballing argument why he's not the man, so why can't his supporters make a case out, based on his footballing qualities?

The last 8 games have been rewarded with 7 points. That's relegation form. Where are the pointers that we're actually going anywhere?

SPOT ON!!!!

Blimey, most managers could do better with the team we've got. Let's be honest - even if we kick Hanley, Robbo, Rhodes and Dunn out of the team - there's the makings of a top 6 championship team (that could do with a keeper mind!). Looking at those who are up there Ipswich, Burnley, Forrest and Derby are all in and around the playoffs with squads no better than ours. Not hard to see what the difference is.

[den]

look at the good players he has signed for the first team like Spurr, Cairney, Evans, Conway, Marshall, Kilgallon, Gestede.

signed some poor squad players tho.

but crucially Bowyer has show he can develop young players for the first team and these players above have improve alot under his management.

Last night we played some really good attacking football. Last night mistakes cost us and some very poor keeper cost us. Robinson should have saved the first 2 goals. hope we get in good Experience goalkeeper like Westwood from Sunderland would be a good choice imo

Chaddy, i don't believe these players are as good as some fans make out. How many times this season have they got the better of their opponents for 90 minutes? Unless you believe that a managers tactics have more influence than the players abilities - which I don't, then the results show how good they actually are. Bowyer's signed 19 players so far. The odds are, in this poor league that some of them would be OK. For me that's what he's done in the transfer market. He's dipped into it blind and come out OK with a small sample of them. Another point is that it's easy to pick out a handful of decent signings, but you have to look at the whole transfer policy. We certainly didn't need another 19 players - and if you can tell me what the thinking, or planning behind that policy was - for a club losing possibly still millions every month, then you're a better man than me. Or does that not matter either?

We're a bit better than we were 12 months ago, but not much. If we are confident that we will move forwards again next season, then it should be showing with results now, shouldn't it?

[Blue blood]

Chaddy, i don't believe these players are as good as some fans make out. How many times this season have they got the better of their opponents for 90 minutes? Unless you believe that a managers tactics have more influence than the players abilities - which I don't, then the results show how good they actually are. Bowyer's signed 19 players so far. The odds are, in this poor league that some of them would be OK. For me that's what he's done in the transfer market. He's dipped into it blind and come out OK with a small sample of them. Another point is that it's easy to pick out a handful of decent signings, but you have to look at the whole transfer policy. We certainly didn't need another 19 players - and if you can tell me what the thinking, or planning behind that policy was - for a club losing possibly still millions every month, then you're a better man than me. Or does that not matter either?

We're a bit better than we were 12 months ago, but not much. If we are confident that we will move forwards again next season, then it should be showing with results now, shouldn't it?

Also as others have pointed out, if the players ARE that good, then our current position shows the manager isn't using them properly - and he isn't that good!

Personally this is the case for me. We've got some talented players but they're hampered by tactics - Cairney, Rhodes, Gestede, Marshall, Conway, Evans, King, Hanley - all more than good enough for a promotion chasing team this year.

Also it's the only area I think Bowyer has improved in, signing players. The first set were a mixed bag, but they've increasingly got better - Marshall, Gestede, Conway, signing Cairney permanently. The rest of his managerial game hasn't shown such improvement.

[AggyBlue]

Not hard to see what the difference is.

Injuries to key players?

[Guest Norbert]

Isn't he on a 1 year rolling contract? If so, who knows what Venky's may do next. You can't entirely discount them trying to bring in another 'big name' manager out of the blue.

[Stuart]

Nothing new there pb. Personally, I think you are probably spot on with regard to budget cuts and I suspect that you will be right about our prospects in terms of League position. I don't expect Rhodes, Hanley, Dunny or Robbo to be here next season. There has been a huge clear out at Under-21 and Under-18 level and I suspect the end of the season will see the same with the senior squad. One of the reasons I want to stick with Gary and the present coaching staff is because they have all worked with youngsters at Academy level and I suspect that we are going to have to rely on young players to rebuild the club. Like you, I think we are just at the start of a long tough journey.

And yet, an experienced manager could have turned us into promotion candidates.

I guess on balance, given the probability of getting promoted is 1 in 8 (roughly), you are 7 times more likely to miss out. So if we were always going to miss out, I guess plan B is to have a manager who can bring through the youth and hopefully battle against relegation. The contradiction here though is that if ther has been a huge clear out at U21 and U18 level, who exactly is left to bring through?

This 25% budget cut is a big blow and losing Rhodes and Robbo will be a massive dent (losing Dunn is massive it its own way too but he is part of natural attrition). This adds to my previous concerns that this season promotion was a massive task for us, and if Venkys really were/are 'supporting us', that they should have put the necessary steps in place to bring in an experienced manager.

Preston Blue's post - and he does have form for getting info from the horse's mouth so I have no reason do doubt this - suggests that Venkys have indeed lost interest and are not concerned with returning club back to where they took it and are simply meeting what they see as their 'duty' to cover the losses that 'they' caused.

We are the new Crewe and Bowyer may well be our Dario Gradi. A feeder club to the Premier League (and Championship) clubs.

Forget bringing chickens into the ground, may as well bring a goose. Cooked.

[Neal]

Isn't he on a 1 year rolling contract? If so, who knows what Venky's may do next. You can't entirely discount them trying to bring in another 'big name' manager out of the blue.

Interesting

[Guest Norbert]

It is indeed Neal. Especially now we have a Director of Communications. Who knows who may be watching the opinion of the fans and reporting back to Pune. I am speaking hypothetically of course, and I expect Bowyer to be in charge next season. He stopped the slide to League 1, but I am not sure he has it to push us to promotion.

[den]

Also as others have pointed out, if the players ARE that good, then our current position shows the manager isn't using them properly - and he isn't that good!

'Twas me BB.

[Neal]

It is indeed Neal. Especially now we have a Director of Communications. Who knows who may be watching the opinion of the fans and reporting back to Pune. I am speaking hypothetically of course, and I expect Bowyer to be in charge next season. He stopped the slide to League 1, but I am not sure he has it to push us to promotion.

Like I've been saying, he should get no more than 10 games if he was to be kept on. So, would this mean he would be expected to eith sign another contract or be let go at the end of the season?

[Guest Norbert]

I think it's a case of if they leaving him alone, it will be automatically renewed, but if they decide to get rid of him in the summer it won't cost much money and won't be a long process. Judging by their previous record, they'll just do nothing and he'll stay on.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

If Bowyer can address my two main concerns - I would stick with him :-

1. He needs to be a little more bold in his tactics - and instill in the players that they always need to be on the front foot (something very evident when we played both Leicester and Burnley).

2. IMO there has to concerns regarding the fitness of the players. This has contributed to the number of injuries we have had - as well as the lack of concentration in defence at times (something that Hughes was quick to point out when he took over).

His choice of players has (on the whole) been excellent - picking up some real bargains. Though his tactics need to be a little more dynamic at times - few seem to give him credit for getting his tactics right in the first place (causing the opposition to change their approach).

With the squad we have (even if Rhodes leaves) - with a little more luck with injuries - we should make top 6 next season. I woudl agree if not there by November - some tough decisions will need to be made regarding the manager.

[Blue blood]

'Twas me BB.

Ah, good point. Knew I'd read it somewhere!

[tomphil]

DavidMailsTightPerm

With the squad we have (even if Rhodes leaves)....

Certainly couldn't see us challenging top 6 if that happened and we had Rudy and Varney for striker slot. Doubt there'd be any money for a replacement and there is the embargo. Still there is always Goodwille to come back I suppose ???

[booth]

If Rhodes leaves how do we make top 6 when even with his goals we are just hanging onto a top half spot?

We lose Rhodes and our better players and we will end up relegated again sooner or later. Let's be realistic.

[Steve Moss]

The every changing back five (inc Goalkeeper) can not help, nor can the every changing midfield and wide men in front of them.

Good teams have a consutant side, injuries have been partly to blame but also I do not think Bowyer knows his favoured 11. I'm pretty sure the fans don't either but we are not paid to know that.

I agree with this.

From 1st April he has to reduce the wage bill by another 25%; although the positives may mean that this will almost certainly mean that Robbo and Dunny will go at the end of the season.

From a wage bill perspective losing Robbo and Dunny would be a big plus. Are there any others off the wage bill at the end of this season?

On the other hand, I thoroughly approve of sending Robbo and Dunny to a fat farm. If we can get them unequivocally fit we'll be in great shape and will only have a couple of positions to fill. But this would require the Raos to keep writing checks.

If Rhodes leaves how do we make top 6 when even with his goals we are just hanging onto a top half spot?

We lose Rhodes and our better players and we will end up relegated again sooner or later. Let's be realistic.

We have alternative scorers now, such as Gestede. We can adapt the formation and will still put the ball into the back of the net.

[thenodrog]

If Rhodes leaves how do we make top 6 when even with his goals we are just hanging onto a top half spot?

We lose Rhodes and our better players and we will end up relegated again sooner or later. Let's be realistic.

Let's be realistic? OK then booth.

1. Rhodes will leave within in a couple of years anyway won't he?

2. Rhodes could suffer a serious injury like vokes ww did last week.

3. We are the only club with Jordan Rhodes on the books yet there are a dozen or so above us.

Truth is that we can not and dare not become a one man team.