[Archived] Bowyer

[DE.]

I can think of many ways the club can improve DE. I take it you can think of none?

That wasn't my point, den. I find it interesting you won't answer my questions - or anybody else's.

As I said in my original post - anything can be better. It's an absolutely pointless thing to say unless you're taking context and circumstances into account, and I'm not sure you are.

[darrenrover]

They've had 'our concerns' pointed out to them on many occasions throughout their 3 year tenure and been given potential solutions.

From John Williams, Tom Finn, Ian Battersby, Ian Currie, Paul Hunt, various local MP delegations and The Trust to name but a few. All of whom have the club's best interests at heart. They were all either ignored or got rid of which is unfathomable and frankly both extremely arrogant and ignorant. Why choose to take advice from others with whom we are unfortunately all too familiar with and still see the Malaysian idiot as a potential salvation when GB is doing OK with the hand he's been dealt?

We and they are all now caught between a rock and a hard place on numerous fronts.

It is too depressing to contemplate really and buggers belief.

[47er]

Well it is an important caveat to make as they don't look like going. Sadly. Things can be done a lot better from top to bottom, many would agree, but that would need new owners wouldn't it?

They don't look like going and they don't look like doing anything. They rarely watch the team and when they do they invariably leave long before the end. You'd think after flying from India, presumably first class, they'd put up with the same 90 minutes of crap we do?

So what is the point of it all? I grasp what it was meant to be but that's long vanished along with our Premier League status.

We have become the toy that lies forgotten 3 days after Christmas.

[T.J.Newton]

Christ this place as just become so tedious,

Even the bickering/arguments have become dull, abbey you gobjocky come back!ffs!).(insert smiley to justify my bs)

[ABBEY]

Christ this place as just become so tedious,

Even the bickering/arguments have become dull, abbey you gobjocky come back!ffs!).(insert smiley to justify my bs)

No

[booth]

what a shocking shortlist that is!!! I would only have Hoddle of that shortlist. rest I wouldn't touch at all. thank god you are not owner or CEO!!!

The shortlist they'd have will be far worse than that.

[thenodrog]

oh what a shame. If Sparky Marky wants Bowyer sack then he must know who he would like to see as Manager then!

Nah...... some people just put their gobs into gear before engaging their brains.

How many wanted Allardyce out in the good days but couldn't offer an alternative manager who could work better with our squad and our budget and who would even consider taking the job. I asked time and again without much success.

[Sparky Marky]

Nah...... some people just put their gobs into gear before engaging their brains.

How many wanted Allardyce out in the good days but couldn't offer an alternative manager who could work better with our squad and our budget and who would even consider taking the job. I asked time and again without much success.

You got me mixed up with someone else Theno...as long as you're happy with this then eh?

[gumboots]

You can't think of any way the club can improve Norbert? That's the point I'm making. I'm debating the argument that "people need to get realistic" about where we are with the club. "We have no reason to think we should be beating Hudds, Doncaster etc".

I could make a list of better ways of doing things and I would be amazed if you couldn't either.

Thing is, we all know things could be better. We all wish they were better. But do we think they're likely to get better if we change manager? Not really because we don't trust the owners to get anyone better and they'd still have to work with some poor players. Added to which, we've chopped and changed managers and are no better off. If the owners were prepared to sell and we were fortunate enough to get good owners, then we might have a chance of improving. If they put in real money and got a competent person /persons in to run the club. We might have a chance of improving, but none of that is likely to happen and so many of us just feel that with Bowyer at least trying to run the club and the team honestly, this is where in reality we are and tweaking things like changing a manager isn't going to make a big positive impact and could take us further than on the downward slope. I haven't lost hope, but I do feel we need to look at things as they are and not as we'd like them to be

[DE.]

Much like Rhodes, it'll all go quiet now until the next poor result.

[Rover_Shaun]

Where are all the posts calling for his head? Or does it vary game by game?

You mean the one singular, solitary POST? :/

[Sparky Marky]

Where are all the posts calling for his head? Or does it vary game by game?

Bowyer out!!!

3 wins and these were against the bottom 2 and the second worse defence in the league.....too many people getting carried away again on this board

[Amo]

Bowyer out!!!

3 wins and these were against the bottom 2 and the second worse defence in the league.....too many people getting carried away again on this board

No, getting carried away is predicting a 3-0 defeat and then being made to look a right mug.

[chaddyrovers]

Bowyer out!!!

3 wins and these were against the bottom 2 and the second worse defence in the league.....too many people getting carried away again on this board

Bowyer in!!!!!! Sparky Marky out!!!!

I noticed that you having said anything about us winning yesterday or Bowyer picking the right team and Tactics. we have very good win away from home yesterday against a very decent side. why won't you give Bowyer some credit for yesterday win. really don't know you are being so negative for???

Bowyer is doing a good job and need to given the season and been judge were we are at the end of the season!

[rhodie]

You could bring Mourinho in as manager and Bill Gates as owner, we would still be hampered by FFP and a small town club. Those two reasons are why Blackburn Rovers or any other small town club will never see major success again until some sense returns to the game with money more evenly shared and player/agent earnings restricted. It is just Illusions of grandeur that some people have, that think we have a god given right to be in the premiership. Those days where a small town club could battle with the big boys are gone, at least we can say we did it. Who cares if Venkys don`t come to the actual matches, when they do, it just becomes a distraction anyway, on past shared info I believe that all the matches are recorded for them and watched back in Pune. Under GB the team spirit and desire is a hell of a lot better than it has been for a long while. The team is starting to gel, we are starting to see good wins and our injured players are coming back, what we need to bear in mind is that there are a shed load of other clubs that are considerably worse off than we are, so lets just try and be a little more optimistic, the past is gone, we need to stop living there.

[Blue blood]

Bowyer in!!!!!! Sparky Marky out!!!!

I noticed that you having said anything about us winning yesterday or Bowyer picking the right team and Tactics. we have very good win away from home yesterday against a very decent side. why won't you give Bowyer some credit for yesterday win. really don't know you are being so negative for???

Bowyer is doing a good job and need to given the season and been judge were we are at the end of the season!

I've not particularly noticed you saying anything that Bowyer does wrong either! Somehow seems to shift between Bowyer being the next Mourinho or a complete donkey. Fact is that he's average with promise.

And the questions are: can we wait for Bowyer to become good enough for Rovers? Could Rovers get a better manager?

Would like to hear your thoughts on that Chaddy, especially the first question, given our financial situation.

[DE.]

And the questions are: can we wait for Bowyer to become good enough for Rovers? Could Rovers get a better manager?

Firstly, why do you think he's not good enough for us? A man who's been at the club for years, managed both the youth and reserves and had an outstanding tenure as caretaker boss amidst absolute chaos last season. Has the respect of the players and is by all accounts a decent man. Lacks experience but has already proven he can adapt his formation and personnel to change a game. What part of him isn't good enough for us?

As for could we get a better manager... based on every piece of evidence we have about Venky's decision making I think it's safe to say no, with them in charge we most likely can't.

[chaddyrovers]

I've not particularly noticed you saying anything that Bowyer does wrong either! Somehow seems to shift between Bowyer being the next Mourinho or a complete donkey. Fact is that he's average with promise.

And the questions are: can we wait for Bowyer to become good enough for Rovers? Could Rovers get a better manager?

Would like to hear your thoughts on that Chaddy, especially the first question, given our financial situation.

My thoughts are Bowyer is the right manager for us. He's been at the club for years and took over permanent this summer even tho he knew that the wage budget would be cut and not much money to spend on transfer fees. But he still wanted the job and he knew that the squad need to be change and what changes needed to be made.

I was happy with most of the permanent signings but of course not everyone made this summer.

He has shown that he is willing to change tactics during a game. For example against Bolton when second half we were losing the midfield battle and he took Dunn off for Evans who gave us more solid midfield with Lowe and push Cairney into the number 10 role.

Also going 4-4-2 yesterday and closing them down further up the pitch and forcing them to play long ball game. shows that GB is willing to change tactics.

On your second point about whether we could get a better manager, I don't think we could. we had our chance last season when Kean left to appoint the right manager and we didn't. we could have gone for Holloway, Billy Davies or McCarthy but we didn't do this and for me it cost us promotion IMO. Plus having Shebby Singh around will also a problem aswell cos managers like Holloway, Davies or McCarthy are not going to work under someone like him.

For me, Bowyer has the squad that is suited to this league and will gel together and get used to the style that GB wants it to be but this will of course take time and patience. he will make mistakes this season but every manager will make them. he will learn from them and become a better manager for them

[Blue blood]

Firstly, why do you think he's not good enough for us? A man who's been at the club for years, managed both the youth and reserves and had an outstanding tenure as caretaker boss amidst absolute chaos last season. Has the respect of the players and is by all accounts a decent man. Lacks experience but has already proven he can adapt his formation and personnel to change a game. What part of him isn't good enough for us?

As for could we get a better manager... based on every piece of evidence we have about Venky's decision making I think it's safe to say no, with them in charge we most likely can't.

My thoughts are Bowyer is the right manager for us. He's been at the club for years and took over permanent this summer even tho he knew that the wage budget would be cut and not much money to spend on transfer fees. But he still wanted the job and he knew that the squad need to be change and what changes needed to be made.

I was happy with most of the permanent signings but of course not everyone made this summer.

He has shown that he is willing to change tactics during a game. For example against Bolton when second half we were losing the midfield battle and he took Dunn off for Evans who gave us more solid midfield with Lowe and push Cairney into the number 10 role.

Also going 4-4-2 yesterday and closing them down further up the pitch and forcing them to play long ball game. shows that GB is willing to change tactics.

On your second point about whether we could get a better manager, I don't think we could. we had our chance last season when Kean left to appoint the right manager and we didn't. we could have gone for Holloway, Billy Davies or McCarthy but we didn't do this and for me it cost us promotion IMO. Plus having Shebby Singh around will also a problem aswell cos managers like Holloway, Davies or McCarthy are not going to work under someone like him.

For me, Bowyer has the squad that is suited to this league and will gel together and get used to the style that GB wants it to be but this will of course take time and patience. he will make mistakes this season but every manager will make them. he will learn from them and become a better manager for them

Rovers need promotion - financially it's an absolute must. And each season we don't do it, the less the chances of us doing so (or for that matter not going bust) decreases. I'm not convinced Bowyer is the man who can deliver that to us this season. Granted it's a tough ask for anyone, given the budget and the like, but I do wonder if a more experienced head could get more out of the team we've got. For all the promising signs we've still only won 3 games in the league! So "good enough" is in the context of needing promotion.

I've said all along that Rovers are where they ought to be (mid-table) and that Bowyer shows many signs of promise. However one promising caretaker stint and a decent start to this season does not make him a good manager. Granted it will become clearer over time. But for all the talk that he gets tactics, signings, press conferences etc. right - there's also been a number of mistakes on all fronts. For example the Hull lads have been excellent business, but unsure of the likes of Marrow, Marshall and Judge (the latter where he actually fits in.) However, I do think people are jumping overboard that he's the real deal now though - and am not certain he'll get us to the next level. Personally I think he'll make a decent manager, but i suspect for us to be successful - and this is the point I'm trying to make - that we need a very good manager to progress.

Could we get better - Chaddy I agree, it'd have been a lot easier last season. However with the facilities etc. that we have I feel we could still attract a good manager. And if we had footballing people in charge, or left to run the place, we could possibly still attract one. That's the problem though: having the right people making decisions.

[Al]

Rovers need promotion - financially it's an absolute must. And each season we don't do it, the less the chances of us doing so (or for that matter not going bust) decreases. I'm not convinced Bowyer is the man who can deliver that to us this season. Granted it's a tough ask for anyone, given the budget and the like, but I do wonder if a more experienced head could get more out of the team we've got. For all the promising signs we've still only won 3 games in the league! So "good enough" is in the context of needing promotion.

I've said all along that Rovers are where they ought to be (mid-table) and that Bowyer shows many signs of promise. However one promising caretaker stint and a decent start to this season does not make him a good manager. Granted it will become clearer over time. But for all the talk that he gets tactics, signings, press conferences etc. right - there's also been a number of mistakes on all fronts. For example the Hull lads have been excellent business, but unsure of the likes of Marrow, Marshall and Judge (the latter where he actually fits in.) However, I do think people are jumping overboard that he's the real deal now though - and am not certain he'll get us to the next level. Personally I think he'll make a decent manager, but i suspect for us to be successful - and this is the point I'm trying to make - that we need a very good manager to progress.

Could we get better - Chaddy I agree, it'd have been a lot easier last season. However with the facilities etc. that we have I feel we could still attract a good manager. And if we had footballing people in charge, or left to run the place, we could possibly still attract one. That's the problem though: having the right people making decisions.

I don't agree that we could attract "a very good manager", or at least not a proven one. Bowyer has done nothing wrong this season that would justify him getting the sack. If you feel you could sack this man then I'm glad I don't work for you. You just can't go about sacking people who have done nothing to deserve it, especially as you have no idea who you could get to do a better job and I don't believe you do.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

The average revenue of Championship clubs is about £10-15m, and as with last season, we're getting £16m in parachute payment money. So we've got double the revenue, and double the wage bill, of most clubs in this league. So sorry, mid-table isn't good enough in my opinion.

Said before Bournemouth that I'd still give Bowyer time. As some people have been at pains to point out, very few of Bowyer's critics actually want him sacked. But I'm not willing to back him unconditionally, he has to improve us from our current position. Maybe he can do that and if he does then great.

[DE.]

Considering we made a loss of £27M last year I'm not sure average Championship revenue applies to us. It's resulted in savage cost-cutting and the need to bring in freebies and loans, so I'm not sure how our finances are supposed to be helping us.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Well all that means is our wage bill must have been absolutely huge last season, maybe 4 times the Championship average. Yeah its come down, but it still won't have come down to even close what it is for most clubs we're up against. Players like Robinson, Dann, Best, Rhodes, Dunn, Rochina and Etuhu will be amongst the very highest paid in the division. I know Bowyer didn't sign any of them and some aren't worth what they're on, but overall we still have more quality in our squad than most of the rest of the league. Its Bowyer's job to get us in a league position equal, or as near as possible, to that wage bill. Which definitely isn't mid-table.

[DE.]

Just because you have a massive wage bill doesn't automatically mean you have great players who should be getting you promotion. Ask Portsmouth.

We overspent on an absolute shitload of dross, that's why our wage bill is huge. It isn't because we have a ton of quality players. Just looking at the ones you named...

Robbo - Injured and flawed in numerous ways as a keeper (but still better than Kean). Also pretty old.

Dann - Sometimes great, sometimes atrocious.

Best - Have seen very little of him but we've almost certainly overpaid in fee and wages.

Rhodes - Arguably our only genuinely consistent and fit player of quality.

Dunn - Injured. His 5-10 games a season aren't going to help much though are they?

Rochina - Injured and not shown any level of consistency yet.

Etuhu - Don't make me laugh.

Bowyer has been left a total mess to deal with and having a huge wage bill is certainly not his fault nor should it be criteria for him to be judged on.

[booth]

I don't agree that we could attract "a very good manager", or at least not a proven one. Bowyer has done nothing wrong this season that would justify him getting the sack. If you feel you could sack this man then I'm glad I don't work for you. You just can't go about sacking people who have done nothing to deserve it, especially as you have no idea who you could get to do a better job and I don't believe you do.

I bet Nigel Clough wishes you were his boss.