[Archived] Bowyer

[bob fleming]

quite funny that. O'Leary is a good manager. why has struggle to work a manager job in the UK since leaving Villa. just a job in UEA.

Makes you wonder doesn't it? Bit like Kean having to work abroad and that John Gregory fella. How strange.

[Tom]

Give me ten grand a week and you come in my office and boo or whatever .

Blaming boos from Boxing Day haha new crazy post on here

I'll do it but I'm not paying you that

[Majiball]

This point is often dragged up by the pro booers, it makes no sense to me.

Elite athletes are competing against other elite athletes, they are not completing singular tasks. Why do all athletes, across all sports, have psychologists?

SO (just for you Ozz) your right in that they do these days and unfortunately no-one can give you the answer, otherwise we wouldn't need the psy's. however as always there are theories. One is our current mode of up-bringing in the game and society. Now this is due to it's focus on positivity and pure encouragement. This means that it's not really until 16-17 that negativity IE failure, being blamed etc etc become part of life. It's then believed that this is hard for them as they don't have coping mechanism's and because of the masculine environment (IE don't discuss issues/feelings etc) struggle to cope with it. But without doubt regardless of reasoning ensuring you are ready psychologically is without doubt the most important aspect of all. Everything you do is determined by what is going on between your ears and most people don't really understand themselves. And this is where the Psy's come in, they guide you to better understanding it all and it really does work. Mind influences body, even physical performance can be enhanced and better understanding of ones self is what is required. This is scientific fact and yet most in football still see talking with a psy as them having a mental problem of some type. A number (far from all) of sports people go down this route and most reap the rewards. Andy Murray (i know) is the best current example, he was always so close, just missing out. He brings in a physiologist, a psychologist and a nutritionist specifically with Wimbledon in mind and wins it easily. Just look at his performance in the final, the semi's (the roof incident and his performance after wards) he was much fitter than his opponent and it really showed. Mentally he was so focused on the task, the semi's highlighted it. He argued made a big deal of it and was wound up. He's goes in has his chat, goes through his techniques and channels it into re-focusing him. Out he comes bish bash bosh, I'm in the final @#/? you umpire! Now that wasn't just down to fitness training but the combination of all three together. Football barely embraces physiology, the others are mainly ignored. And yet it's like playing a 10 month tennis competition.

[Speedie Dived]

 

SO (just for you Ozz) your right in that they do these days and unfortunately no-one can give you the answer, otherwise we wouldn't need the psy's.  however as always there are theories.  One is our current mode of up-bringing in the game and society.  Now this is due to it's focus on positivity and pure encouragement.  This means that it's not really until 16-17 that negativity IE failure, being blamed etc etc become part of life.  It's then believed that this is hard for them as they don't have coping mechanism's and because of the masculine environment (IE don't discuss issues/feelings etc) struggle to cope with it.  But without doubt regardless of reasoning ensuring you are ready psychologically is without doubt the most important aspect of all.  Everything you do is determined by what is going on between your ears and most people don't really understand themselves.  And this is where the Psy's come in, they guide you to better understanding it all and it really does work.  Mind influences body, even physical performance can be enhanced and better understanding of ones self is what is required.  This is scientific fact and yet most in football still see talking with a psy as them having a mental problem of some type.  A number (far from all) of sports people go down this route and most reap the rewards.  Andy Murray (i know) is the best current example, he was always so close, just missing out.  He brings in a physiologist, a psychologist and a nutritionist specifically with Wimbledon in mind and wins it easily.  Just look at his performance in the final, the semi's (the roof incident and his performance after wards) he was much fitter than his opponent and it really showed.  Mentally he was so focused on the task, the semi's highlighted it.  He argued made a big deal of it and was wound up.  He's goes in has his chat, goes through his techniques and channels it into re-focusing him.  Out he comes bish bash bosh, I'm in the final Kean you umpire!  Now that wasn't just down to fitness training but the combination of all three together.  Football barely embraces physiology, the others are mainly ignored.  And yet it's like playing a 10 month tennis competition. 

Some excellent points in there. Can't argue that players have it so much easier. Flip it around then, why are crowds (99% of teams) booing with alarming regularity?

As I stated previously, booing was once in a blue moon. It's a very childlike response IMO and there are few situations when it's called for. Ironically the only one that should get booed is Campbell, but he has got away Scott free now for two games.

[Majiball]

Some excellent points in there. Can't argue that players have it so much easier. Flip it around then, why are crowds (99% of teams) booing with alarming regularity?

As I stated previously, booing was once in a blue moon. It's a very childlike response IMO and there are few situations when it's called for. Ironically the only one that should get booed is Campbell, but he has got away Scott free now for two games.

SO yet another question that can be answered by starting a sentence with so.

I don't really know the answer but as always I have a theory. Before I think people ie fans felt more of a connection to the players and the clubs. Back in the sixty's, seventies you could meet them, they lived down your road so on and so on. As the money has increased 9ie premier league) this togetherness has drifted away. Clubs ignore fans, players are distant untouchable to fans. It's all changed. 200K a week and you don't even try? I would try for 200K. Because of this fans have less patience, less support and are more likely to Boo than get behind the team and support as the unity has been lost between fans, clubs and players.

We've been really lucky at Rovers to have had Jack and JW no other club in the country was run in the manner they did Rovers. They would meet fans, it was a family club. But at most it's not like that and we're not viewed like that either.

[Gav]

Booing isn't anything new, its been happening up and down the country for years, watch the old footage on ITV2's Big match.

Booing is the only way fans that pay good money can voice an opinion on match day. Whilst I don't agree with it myself, I don't blame anyone for booing when we've just conceeded 3 goals to Brum and not beaten a Sheff Weds side without a manager and in the bottom 3.

[West Yorks Rover]

Bolton fans have a ' Freedman out ' thread on ' The Wanderer '

110 pages. it has been going for some time, on and off, getting some real clog today though !

At least we're not at that stage yet.

[Paul]

Paul, you seem to be under the impression my posts were in reply to your own. Thats not the case.

No I didn't think that but wouldn't be concerned if it was. I felt your post summarised some views which are counter to mine and thought it worth responding. That's all.

[Paul]

After yesterday I'm not too sure what to think. At 3-0 down I felt the performance pretty much backed up my current opinion of Bowyer. Despite the score line I'd enjoyed the first half and certainly the second. Though as I've said before much of the play was predictable - we did things well and at pace which is why the performance was improved after Wednesday.

At either 3-1 or 3-2 I was interested Bowyer indicated to the team several times to slow down and take it more calmly.

The last two home games, and don't forget how much emphasis is put on this period, presented our best chance this season of getting in to the top six. For whatever reasons we bottled it and missed a great opportunity which would have had a positive impact throughout the club and fan base. I think results like yesterday's do happen, certainly I've seen it before so perhaps GB is just very unlucky? The Boxing Day game suggests not.

We need to hit top form and match the sort of fun run Derby are on. Had we won the last two we would have 17 points from 24, Derby have 22. On 36 points and sixth we would have something to hold on to, as it now stands we've proved we don't have the ability to put a run together.

In short Bowyer won't take us up.

[Stuart]

Can someone confirm that Bowyer's post match comments included the immortal line "it's all about the 3 points"?

Amazing if he did bearing in mind what happened on Thursday.

100% true. I heard it on Radio Rovers. He was trying to add a touch of realism to our second half fight-back and the talk from RR that it didn't feel like a defeat. As an ethos it backfires badly in the context of Thursday's game.

[patrickvalery]

No I didn't think that but wouldn't be concerned if it was. I felt your post summarised some views which are counter to mine and thought it worth responding. That's all.

Well I'm not concerned that your not concerned about me thinking you were thinking my post was aimed at you!!!!

Its probably best we just agree to disagree I reckon. I like the bloke and don't want to see him sacked. I wouldnt say you feel the opposite, but your opinion certainly doesnt mirror my own. Lets leave it at that.

[DE.]

In short Bowyer won't take us up.

Perhaps not, but if we get rid of him then who will?

[Ricky]

Three managers got promoted last season, two are now out of work. Either of those would be fine with me.

And out of interest, who here would have been happy with Steve Bruce previously. He was slated on here when his name was mentioned. Seems to have done ok at Hull with a very small budget before they got promoted.

[Paul]

Perhaps not, but if we get rid of him then who will?

I haven't called for his dismissal though and judging by your recent comments on the last two games you also feel we've recently wasted good opportunities. These same opportunities are the ones which lead me to feel GB won't get us promoted.

This season is about taking a chance on a budget promotion push, if it doesn't happen then I suspect by the end of March other action will be taken. Venkys have hedged their bets very well.

[chaddyrovers]

Holloway and Mackay wouldnt come here for sure.

Mackay is still waiting for his two mil pounds payoffs n very unlikely to be payed up till end of the season.

Holloway turned us last season so why would he come now???

Venkys reputation is at the lowest inside the footballing world. fans need to understand this. Venkys would ONLY been able to attract desparado manager like McLeish or Coyle.

I would no to both of them.

Bowyer is our best bet to get into the playoffs places of course IMO

[John]

Sounds like a lot of people on here believe we have the players/squad but not the manager to get promotion....?

[Mercer]

Freedman has had his hands tied behind his back at Bolton, even more so than Bowyer.

His spell at Palace was little less than remarkable and I would take him in a heartbeat.

Bowyer is not the answer, never was and never will be.

Let's just hope that in 2014 we will turn the corner although I firmly believe we will need a new manager to achieve that.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

If Bowyer is our best bet to get in the play-offs we're furked.

[jim mk2]

Sounds like a lot of people on here believe we have the players/squad but not the manager to get promotion....?

It's always about the manager. Spending heaps of money on the squad as our owners have done is pointless if the manager isn't right. They could have saved themselves a fortune by leaving Allardyce in charge or at least replacing him with a credible alternative.

For what it's worth my opinion is it's obvious from the way results are going that Bowyer isn't going to get us promoted.

[Parsonblue]

Reading this thread there are times when I think that some supporters and Venky's deserve one another. The bottom line is that Gary has been asked to rebuild a club that has been torn apart over the past three years and he has been asked to do it on a limited budget. The fact that the owners didn't want to pay £1 million for the Polish 'keeper but were OK to sign Eastwood on a free would suggest that promotion on the cheap is the plan and that rarely works, particularly as Gary was asked to virtually rebuild much of the team. From what I have seen this season a top ten finish would be a result after just about avoiding relegation to League One last season. I'm just staggered that some want a change of manager after everything we went through last season.

We are up to our eyeballs in debt and yet some want to add to that by changing the manager who will want his own backroom staff and his own players bringing in. It's total madness.

[jim mk2]

Reading this thread there are times when I think that some supporters and Venky's deserve one another. The bottom line is that Gary has been asked to rebuild a club that has been torn apart over the past three years and he has been asked to do it on a limited budget. The fact that the owners didn't want to pay £1 million for the Polish 'keeper but were OK to sign Eastwood on a free would suggest that promotion on the cheap is the plan and that rarely works, particularly as Gary was asked to virtually rebuild much of the team. From what I have seen this season a top ten finish would be a result after just about avoiding relegation to League One last season. I'm just staggered that some want a change of manager after everything we went through last season.

We are up to our eyeballs in debt and yet some want to add to that by changing the manager who will want his own backroom staff and his own players bringing in. It's total madness.

Depends on your definition of madness ....we are being told that unless we achieve promotion this season the club will have to go into administration. Is that going to happen under Bowyer ? At present you'd have to say it's highly unlikely

[FGS5635]

The trouble is the promotion or bust headline is fan driven. Given what we know it could be true. But nothing the club have done indicates promtion or bust. Now maybe this is just more mis management - quite possible. Also possible the club have some sort of plan in place and it isnt promotion or bust.

[Blue blood]

Reading this thread there are times when I think that some supporters and Venky's deserve one another. The bottom line is that Gary has been asked to rebuild a club that has been torn apart over the past three years and he has been asked to do it on a limited budget. The fact that the owners didn't want to pay £1 million for the Polish 'keeper but were OK to sign Eastwood on a free would suggest that promotion on the cheap is the plan and that rarely works, particularly as Gary was asked to virtually rebuild much of the team. From what I have seen this season a top ten finish would be a result after just about avoiding relegation to League One last season. I'm just staggered that some want a change of manager after everything we went through last season.

We are up to our eyeballs in debt and yet some want to add to that by changing the manager who will want his own backroom staff and his own players bringing in. It's total madness.

Parson I think that's a bit harsh. The bottom line is that it's promotion or bust - that's come from the club (not that I trust what they say much) and from any reading of the finances. If that's the case Bowyer doing a steady job is not good enough - we NEED promotion.

Yes it hasn't helped at all that there's no board infrastructure in place, that he has to rebuild the team, and he's been given 20 pence and a packet of smarties to do so. And all in all, given his inexperience too, we're where we should expect to be. But again, that doesn't change the situation - we NEED promotion.

A good manager can make all the difference. You see that with Derby, the dingles boss is doing wonders on a very limited budget, Leeds and Forrest may be big clubs for this division but what's got them near the top is an experienced managed - same with Ipswich. I'm not sure it can be argued against that a good manager can make all the difference.

Now given that we're solidly midtable and have fluffed a great opportunity to make the playoffs recently, a good manager would only have to improve the team somewhat to get us in the playoffs. It's not a total turnaround we're looking at here but someone to step it up a gear. Given that this is a promotion or bust situation, making this sort of change could well see us slip from bust - which is what mid table will be for us, and where you admit we are and will stay - to promotion.

The questions we need to ask are:

Do we need to get promotion this season?

Do we think Bowyer is capable of doing so?

And perhaps most worryingly:

Would Venkys appoint anyone better?

Like I say this all stems from promotion or bust. If that's not the case I'd keep Bowyer as he's doing a decent job - as well as can be expected. Especially given as I don't trust Venkys to get a managerial appointment correct. However given that Bowyer is very unlikely to take us up, and given it's promotion or bust, than a change is needed. And as much as I have huge reservations that Venkys can get that correct, if the current situation is guaranteed (or at least exceptionally unlikely to get us promoted) then we need to make the change.

The trouble is the promotion or bust headline is fan driven. Given what we know it could be true. But nothing the club have done indicates promtion or bust. Now maybe this is just more mis management - quite possible. Also possible the club have some sort of plan in place and it isnt promotion or bust.

As I said this is the nub of the issue. I'm sure the club have made noises to this effect (there will be sanctions if we're not promoted, that promotion is the aim to name but two statements I'm sure I've heard).

However given that a) there are noises from the club indicating this they haven;t come up with a coherent plan yet and c) most tellingly the finances/accounts I would suggest that promotion or bust is a more than likely scenario.

[FGS5635]

Who here expects venkys to pump a load of cash in to wipe out the debt. I'd say nobody as its 100% stupid. But there you have venkys tenure in a nutshell, they do everything that you dont expect them to do and its usually 100% stupid.

God only knows what their plans and thoughts are. I honestly dont think promotion or bust is certain with this lot

[Stuart]

Praise for Bowyer is definitely deserved, given where we have come from, but the job he has is akin to putting up a tent in a hurricane with a tsunami on the way.

The irony is that, from a playing perspective at least, the more Bowyer returns us to normalcy, the more he will begin to feel the normal pressures of management, including fan frustration. We almost need a stupid comment from Singh or Confused of Pune to get he sympathy levels back up.