[Archived] Bowyer

[Gav]

The problem with naming alternatives is you then get a flock of people jumping on the suggestions with a cynical, pompous disgust, as though we're still a big hitting PL club who are too good for unfashionable Championship managers. All we can reasonably expect, and all we need, is a manager who has promoted a club from the Championship before. That one quality would be a significant improvement on Bowyer. So Megson, Holloway, Warnock, McCleish etc. And now queue the hysterical replies for why they're awful choices...

I don't advocate changing the manager when we get a couple of bad results, but Bowyer sadly isn't the man to take us up to the Premiership, he's not good enough, so if confused of Pune want to get promotion this season they could do worse than appointing one of the names mentioned by SKH.

My preference would be Holloway or Warnock, both would get that extra 10% out of the players that Bowyer seemingly cannot and both have promoted teams with limited ability, so we'd have a chance.

If the confused 2 don't change the manager we're already looking towards next season in my book.

[Rover_Shaun]

Do not forget Managers are a strange breed with egos the size of mountains. Venkys will only put off those with weak wills. The Rovers job is still a good job and the applicant list would be long an: varied. Sadly the owners have a penchant for drab rookies they can easily manipulate as they are desperate for the chabce despite being ill equipped for the challenge. We are on our 4th.

We will not get a real manager until Venkys leave. Until then we are saddled with types who can put glass eyes to sleep.

[CapeTownRover]

There were you CTR? How many times have you read about the dog eat dog unpredictability of this Division yet you still come out with what amounts to schoolboy logic. Brum rode their luck massively whilst Sheff Wed were good value for a point. It happens and that is why we all don't win the pools every week. tbh I am quite enjoying the unpredicability, it's how football should be.

You've just beaten me to it DE.

you certainly like to jump on statements way too easily Gordon, and on the 2 performances we should have disposed of both teams comfortably. school boy logic? im well aware that you dont win games on paper, and well aware of the unpredictable nature of this division. however based on the performance overall, and the defending we should have beaten both teams. if i had gone in prior to the game thinking we would just walk over both teams then yeh, perhaps i would have been a fool.

[DE.]

Silly game DE. Pointless. Just as naming "players we would like" is silly and pointless.

It's a perfectly reasonable question to ask. Unless you're willing to name some names then your statement is the only thing that's pointless. To say you don't agree we couldn't get someone better than Bowyer then fail to name anybody in defence of that statement is ridiculous.

[Majiball]

It's a perfectly reasonable question to ask. Unless you're willing to name some names then your statement is the only thing that's pointless. To say you don't agree we couldn't get someone better than Bowyer then fail to name anybody in defence of that statement is ridiculous.

And his response is perfectly reasonable as well.

[DE.]

And his response is perfectly reasonable as well.

No, it's just dodging a relevant question. Not answering makes the original statement pointless as an argument can only be worthwhile if backed up by a strong opinion. Otherwise we could all start throwing out silly comments and refuse to answer valid challenges to said statements.

[Majiball]

No, it's just dodging a relevant question. Not answering makes the original statement pointless as an argument can only be worthwhile if backed up by a strong opinion. Otherwise we could all start throwing out silly comments and refuse to answer valid challenges to said statements.

In your opinion.

[DE.]

In your opinion.

That's generally how debating works. Considering some of the essays you write in defence of your arguments it should be your opinion as well... though in this instance I'm not surprised it isn't.

[roversfan99]

Under Bowyer I have noticed that we don't look a threat under set pieces. As we don't score many, you would think that the manager would target set pieces as an area to start scoring goals.

[Parsonblue]

We're not good enough to go up Parson, you're probably right. Thing is, with a better manager from the off, we very well might have been. We are losing games that another manager might not have done. It doesn't take a great side to get into the top six in this league.

I differ about mid table being good enough. In normal circumstances, you would be right. These aren't normal circumstances and given the lack of any kind of statements from the owners, the only way the fans can look at the situation is with much fear.

As for sacking Bowyer, well that's not an easy one, simply because we don't know what's around the corner. If it's a matter of getting away from relegation and going into Administration - and that might well be the situation - there's no point at all. The time for installing the right manager was in the summer and for me, Venky's bottled it.

I'll ask you a question. If the owners could find someone now, with good experience and a good record in this league, would you go for him hoping to get out of this division, or settle for where we are and face the consequences - and why?

Would I change at this point? No. Another manager would bring more turmoil and there are no guarantees that we would improve the present position. Having appointed Gary the owners have to give him time - and that is more than one season. If we were facing relegation then fair enough - look to make a change. However, we are comfortable in mid-table and still only four points away from the play-offs. I agree another manager, a more experienced manager, might achieve better results but, then again, they might not. Remember Jim Iley? He had far more managerial experience than Howard Kendall who accepted his first job in management at Ewood. Which of those two was a success and which was a failure? Experience counted for very little in Iley's case.

The real problem remains the owners who seem to have no real plan for the rebuilding or restructuring of the club. Giving the job to Gary at least means we have a chance of restructuring as he knows the club, the community and everything that the Rovers are about. Sure he will make mistakes but then what manager doesn't? If Venky's are prepared to stand the debt for another year or two then I would happily stick with Gary and give him the opportunity to rebuild the club from top to bottom.

[thenodrog]

And his response is perfectly reasonable as well.

imo it's a bit of a cop out tbh Maj.

When the Allardyce haters were revelling in our battering at OT I asked that question on here 'Given our status which manager will come here who is better suited to the job in hand'. The only suggestion that I I can rem was from Abbey who proposed the then flavour of the month Ian Holloway (who rem was in work at Blackpool) and Tugay. The rest were it seems unable to take any discussion forward from that point other than to continue with their vacuous 'boo hiss' tirades at Allardyce. Den will have thought this through so if he is so certain of his opinion that we can do better than Bowyer then it can only be cos he has a one or a few in mind.

[den]

imo it's a bit of a cop out tbh Maj.When the Allardyce haters were revelling in our battering at OT I asked that question on here 'Given our status which manager will come here who is better suited to the job in hand'. The only suggestion that I I can rem was from Abbey who proposed the then flavour of the month Ian Holloway (who rem was in work at Blackpool) and Tugay. The rest were it seems unable to take any discussion forward from that point other than to continue with their vacuous 'boo hiss' tirades at Allardyce. Den will have thought this through so if he is so certain of his opinion that we can do better than Bowyer then it can only be cos he has a one or a few in mind.

No Gord. It's not a cop out.

Guessing at who would come in is as pointless as arguing that no-one better would come in. Don't forget I'm really talking about last summer, or next summer, not this moment in time. I haven't said that I would sack Bowyer now. That's for the owners to work out. Their job is to continually monitor the managers performances and if they have any concerns to be proactive in replacing him. Just as it's pointless putting candidates forward for the managers job, it's also a bit pointless us arguing for or against replacing him now, because we don't know what Venky's have in mind.

Could we have got someone better last summer - yes. Could we get someone better next summer - who knows? We might not even exist then. We don't need names, that's just my opinion. I could ask for proof that we couldn't do better, but that wouldn't be forthcoming, would it.

[Blue blood]

The problem with naming alternatives is you then get a flock of people jumping on the suggestions with a cynical, pompous disgust, as though we're still a big hitting PL club who are too good for unfashionable Championship managers. All we can reasonably expect, and all we need, is a manager who has promoted a club from the Championship before. That one quality would be a significant improvement on Bowyer. So Megson, Holloway, Warnock, McCleish etc. And now queue the hysterical replies for why they're awful choices...

Here's some choices who could well be a better bet than Bowyer. Warnock, McLeish and Holloway would all be decent shouts. Not the most inspiring football names, but then neither are McCarthy or McClaren and look where they've got their clubs at the moment! Yes it's always a risk appointing a new manager but the three mentioned all have got teams out of this division before and have numerous success stories. Sure they have mixed records but then most managers at this level will have.

Also why not try for Mackay. I doubt that we'd get him but if we were serious about going up, why not give it a try? Imagine if he came. Equally I'm not too up on European leagues but am sure there must be some promising managers out there who could perhaps come in. It's illogical to think there aren't any promising managers in Europe - and whilst they may not have the most valuable asset of experience of this league I'm sure they have many other transferable skills. With the right research we could find ourselves a good manager (though abroad would be my second option).

The point is there are options open to the club. Assuming that it is promotion or bust this season, which as I've said before I strongly suspect it is.

[JAL]

Dont understand what Parson blue means by building the club from top to bottom isnt everything in place already regarding structure on a playing level ?

[den]

Would I change at this point? No. Another manager would bring more turmoil and there are no guarantees that we would improve the present position. Having appointed Gary the owners have to give him time - and that is more than one season. If we were facing relegation then fair enough - look to make a change. However, we are comfortable in mid-table and still only four points away from the play-offs. I agree another manager, a more experienced manager, might achieve better results but, then again, they might not. Remember Jim Iley? He had far more managerial experience than Howard Kendall who accepted his first job in management at Ewood. Which of those two was a success and which was a failure? Experience counted for very little in Iley's case.

The real problem remains the owners who seem to have no real plan for the rebuilding or restructuring of the club. Giving the job to Gary at least means we have a chance of restructuring as he knows the club, the community and everything that the Rovers are about. Sure he will make mistakes but then what manager doesn't? If Venky's are prepared to stand the debt for another year or two then I would happily stick with Gary and give him the opportunity to rebuild the club from top to bottom.

I don't understand the thinking Parson. If someone with a better record, and with more experience was to be available now, you wouldn't take them? You would rather stick with someone you don't believe is going to get us out of this league, knowing the financial situation facing the club? Not sure I understand that.

[thenodrog]

No Gord. It's not a cop out.

Guessing at who would come in is as pointless as arguing that no-one better would come in. Don't forget I'm really talking about last summer, or next summer, not this moment in time.

If that is what you think then it's also pointless to bring it up at this moment in time.

[Gav]

imo it's a bit of a cop out tbh Maj.

When the Allardyce haters were revelling in our battering at OT I asked that question on here 'Given our status which manager will come here who is better suited to the job in hand'. The only suggestion that I I can rem was from Abbey who proposed the then flavour of the month Ian Holloway (who rem was in work at Blackpool) and Tugay. The rest were it seems unable to take any discussion forward from that point other than to continue with their vacuous 'boo hiss' tirades at Allardyce. Den will have thought this through so if he is so certain of his opinion that we can do better than Bowyer then it can only be cos he has a one or a few in mind.

I think we may well be having the same conversation when the Rhodes haters get their own way and he leaves the club the majority of you seem unable to take such a discussion forward from that point other than to continue with their vacuous 'boo hiss' tirades at Rhodes.

Sorry I just had too

[DE.]

I don't understand the thinking Parson. If someone with a better record, and with more experience was to be available now, you wouldn't take them? You would rather stick with someone you don't believe is going to get us out of this league, knowing the financial situation facing the club? Not sure I understand that.

You've just said it's pointless so why are you trying to argue it?

I think we may well be having the same conversation when the Rhodes haters get their own way and he leaves the club the majority of you seem unable to take such a discussion forward from that point other than to continue with their vacuous 'boo hiss' tirades at Rhodes.

Sorry I just had too

This is also true. Same happens in the Rhodes thread which is why I stopped frequenting it.

[den]

If that is what you think then it's also pointless to bring it up at this moment in time.

All part of an ongoing discussion of who would, wouldn't work under Venky's.

You've just said it's pointless so why are you trying to argue it?.

Cos you said we couldn't attract anyone better because of the Raos and demanded names. Well others have been prepared to put forward names. What's your response to them?

[DE.]

All part of an ongoing discussion of who would, wouldn't work under Venky's.

Cos you said we couldn't attract anyone better because of the Raos and demanded names. Well others have been prepared to put forward names. What's your response to them?

I'm more interested to know why you care when you've said this is "silly" and "pointless" because none of us know what Venky's are thinking. Now suddenly it's okay to debate because other people have spoken?

My response is the same as many on here, I don't think it's worth the upheaval and I don't believe anybody we could realistically bring in would have the type of instant impact required to get the club promoted on a £0 budget. Holloway and Mackay are not realistic candidates to me and the others unlikely to get us promoted with the current team having only five months to achieve that goal and being brought in smack bang at the beginning of a transfer window.

[thenodrog]

I think we may well be having the same conversation when the Rhodes haters get their own way and he leaves the club the majority of you seem unable to take such a discussion forward from that point other than to continue with their vacuous 'boo hiss' tirades at Rhodes.

Sorry I just had too

No problem Gav. For the record (sigh... again) I don't 'hate' Rhodes, he is a superb finisher without a doubt but I do criticise him for his weaknesses.... and for his apparent inability to improve them. He scored two v Brum (the second he finished superbly btw) but against Sheff Wed I'd have hauled him off mid way through the second half cos the centre halves had him in their arse pockets and every ball up to him just came straight back. His race was run that day, he was like a kid in the Under 14's at school being suddenly picked for the 1st X1.

[Amo]

I'm more interested to know why you care when you've said this is "silly" and "pointless" because none of us know what Venky's are thinking. Now suddenly it's okay to debate because other people have spoken?

Trying to debate with Den is a Sisyphean task. I wouldn't bother if I were you.

[Rover_Shaun]

Just chuckling to myself regarding naming replacements. How do we as fans know who is or would be available any more than we would be able to put names forward for who will take over a failing local bargainbooze?

The ambition bereft status quo will continue anyway as we are dealing with the twunts from Pune

What I do know is that Wolves will be in a healthier position than us next season on all levels

Just for fun anyone got a list of out of work managers?

[RevidgeBlue]

I thought yesterday's result would bring about a good few pages of kneejerk reaction. I don't think you can read too much into the Brum game because bizarrely even at 0-3 down I thought it was one of our better performances this season.

There's no point discussing replacing Bowyer without naming potential replacements as a) You need to gauge if they're any good and b ) whether they'd be likely to come. I'm sure many of the usual duds on the managerial merry go round with"experience" (I.e. more experience of being sacked than of success) like Megson and Peter Reid would come but imo they would represent a huge step back from Bowyer.

Any move to replace Bowyer would be a massive gamble. The only two names I can think of that would more probably than not give us a good chance of improvement are those with a recent track record of getting a Club promoted from this division, Mackay and Holloway. Even then success would not be guaranteed as the players would have to adapt to new tactics/formations etc and in the case of those two I very much doubt either would come which renders the debate fairly pointless.

[broadsword]

The way it works is that you advertise the job first and see who applies, then select the best candidate. You also try head-hunting. What Venky's did this time around was to make the most obvious, labour-unintensive, unimaginative appointment they could. What the actual selection process was that led to Steve Kean, Appleton and Berg being appointed, I'm not totally sure, but I'm thinking it was sub-optimal.

I'm not an expert on who the best managers are out there who would be willing to come, but I'd expect there would be some better candidates out there than the ex-academy director with no previous management experience who only got the gig because those brain-dead numb-skulls in Pune had already binned anyone else at the club who had even the slimmest claim on being able to step up and manage Rovers.

Given that background, I'd say it was entirely understandable for Den to think as he does without being pushed into specifying names for all and sundry on here to deride as a facile rebuttal of his argument. Instead of playing that silly game, just ask yourself: have Venky's gone the right way about selecting the best available (or even unavailable, but could be poached) man for the job, or have they just made a half-arsed appointment while they wait for the club to go to the wall, melt down the assets and bugger off so they can get the whole tiresome mistake over with?

Nothing those morons do makes sense. If their plan was to get promoted at all costs, then what are they doing appointing Bowyer?