[Archived] Bowyer

[TBTF]

The trouble is the promotion or bust headline is fan driven. Given what we know it could be true. But nothing the club have done indicates promtion or bust. Now maybe this is just more mis management - quite possible. Also possible the club have some sort of plan in place and it isnt promotion or bust.

Did the shelfmeister not say it was a sh1t or bust season at that fans Forum thing earlier in the season?

[Rover_Shaun]

I am and will remain flabberghasted that people honestly think that Bowyer is the only one who can manage Rovers. Its bloody halarious, yet frightening at the same time.

Pardew was a multi-sacked manager in the Peter Reid mould and now look at him. Rovers is a great opportunity for someone to rebuild their reputation. An ideal job for a Curbishley et al.

As mentioned Bowyer should be nowhere near the hotseat, just like Sherwood at Spuds, but lazy unimaginative lunatics run the club these days. If you were to blend the personalities of Kean, Berg, Appleton and Bowyer together what a hoot you'd get lol

[Roverthechimp]

To say that Bowyer was the laziest and most unimaginative appointment is just a tiny bit unfair - he is the main reason we are still in the Championship and at the time of his appointment had more experience than Berg, Sherwood and McKinlay (Spelling) combined...

[patrickvalery]

To say that Bowyer was the laziest and most unimaginative appointment is just a tiny bit unfair - he is the main reason we are still in the Championship and at the time of his appointment had more experience than Berg, Sherwood and McKinlay (Spelling) combined...

I think its absolutely fair to describe his appointment in those terms. And I'm one of those getting shot at for supporting him. It was a poor choice imo. Not because of anything to do with Bowyer. But the situation and the severity of it called for an older and more experienced figure.

But the bloke has done a good job and although he will fail to get us promoted I can't sit here and criticise him. He has brought back some of the good honest qualities which the Kean / Anderson / Singh era robbed us of. The club is in a right old mess and if reports are to be believed then we need promotion. Its not Bowyers fault if we cannot achieve that. He's improved the side, improved the spirit and gone some way to healing a wounded fan base. He has us about where we should be and I don't believe that anyone else could take us from this point to promotion. If you'd asked me at the end of last season then my answer would have been altogether different. But to contemplate sacking him or even booing the side at this point in time shows a real lack of class imo.

[Rover_Shaun]

People pay their money and are entitled to express their views when what is served up surpasses or does not meet acceptable standards. Unoffensively of course.

Its the same in all forms of entertainment. For every Lord of the Rings triumph there is an A.I. stinking pile.

[AlvinStraight]

A.I. is a good film(if a little longer than necessary), maybe you should stick to Rainbow.

[RevidgeBlue]

I am and will remain flabberghasted that people honestly think that Bowyer is the only one who can manage Rovers. Its bloody halarious, yet frightening at the same time.

Pardew was a multi-sacked manager in the Peter Reid mould and now look at him. Rovers is a great opportunity for someone to rebuild their reputation. An ideal job for a Curbishley et al.

As mentioned Bowyer should be nowhere near the hotseat, just like Sherwood at Spuds, but lazy unimaginative lunatics run the club these days. If you were to blend the personalities of Kean, Berg, Appleton and Bowyer together what a hoot you'd get lol

I take the opposite view to Patrick. GB was not a lazy unimaginative choice imo. He was appointed on the back of a sensational initial caretaker stint (when he should never have been replaced by Appleton) and a second reasonable but slightly less successful spell without any creative players steadying the shipwreck left by Appleton. So to some degree he had established his credentials. If he'd been handed the job permanently without having shown what he could do simply by virtue of him being in the building that would have been a lazy appointment.

Thereafter I think you can legitimately criticise aspects of his performance this season and obviously he isn't the only man who could manage Rovers. No doubt there are some managers out there who could squeeze an extra 10 -15% out of the current squad. Equally there are many I'm sure who would perform worse and any change represents a gamble, you don't know what you're actually going to get until after the event.

[Rover_Shaun]

Nothing will happen of note until the summer.

[chaddyrovers]

.

Let's just hope that in 2014 we will turn the corner

lets hope Rovers will have a great 2014 and get to the Playoff final to face Burnley or Forest.

Good to have you back on the Messageboard Mercerman. we will disagree on a lot of issues but we will respect each other post.

Reading this thread there are times when I think that some supporters and Venky's deserve one another. The bottom line is that Gary has been asked to rebuild a club that has been torn apart over the past three years and he has been asked to do it on a limited budget. The fact that the owners didn't want to pay £1 million for the Polish 'keeper but were OK to sign Eastwood on a free would suggest that promotion on the cheap is the plan and that rarely works, particularly as Gary was asked to virtually rebuild much of the team. From what I have seen this season a top ten finish would be a result after just about avoiding relegation to League One last season. I'm just staggered that some want a change of manager after everything we went through last season.

We are up to our eyeballs in debt and yet some want to add to that by changing the manager who will want his own backroom staff and his own players bringing in. It's total madness.

totally agree

I said in the summer that regardless of who the manager is we won't get into the playoffs this season. This squad has had a losing mentality for the last three years, you aren't going to turn that around overnight, this coupled with the cost cutting was going to make things very difficult for us in terms of promotion. I think that Bowyer is doing a very good job in very difficult circumstances. He has very little money to spend, so had to rely on getting freebies and looking to sign young players who hadn't quite fulfilled their early promise and get them back on track. He is having to deal with an absolute circus off the field. He has improved us from last season, we are now in mid table and clear of any relegation worries which dogged us last season.

Bowyer has made mistakes this season, but the hope is that he will learn from them. If Rovers sacked him now, who would you replace him with? Venky's is dirt within the game and now we have the added bonus of having to cost cut, so the likes of Holloway,Clarke and Mackay won't come anywhere near Ewood, we may have the chance of getting one of them if he was promised a big budget in January but that just isn't going to happen. So sack Bowyer will most likely lead to us getting a desperado manager such as Coyle.

Bowyer is under a lot of pressure, there are people in and around the owners who will be pushing for them to sack him., I hope that they continue not to listen to them because at the moment the last thing that we need is a managerial change, at least on the pitch we are no longer a circus that we were last year.

Great post there Kamy.

I would like to know who these people are that are trying to get Bowyer sack. I totally agree with you that the last thing we need is change of manager. we had enough manager changes last season and almost went down cos of it.

As others have said if we are going to be 'supported' for a few more seasons yet them I'm happy with the job he's doing, if it really is promotion or bust then something else is needed

Fact is we don't really know for sure what will happen when we don't go up

I think we have to give Bowyer time to rebuild this club playing staff wise. we will be cutting cost again this Transfer window and defo next summer aswell.

Under Bowyer I have noticed that we don't look a threat under set pieces. As we don't score many, you would think that the manager would target set pieces as an area to start scoring goals.

we have enough set pieces to score. interesting that Dann or Hanley haven't scored this season.

Would I change at this point? No. Another manager would bring more turmoil and there are no guarantees that we would improve the present position. Having appointed Gary the owners have to give him time - and that is more than one season. If we were facing relegation then fair enough - look to make a change. However, we are comfortable in mid-table and still only four points away from the play-offs. I agree another manager, a more experienced manager, might achieve better results but, then again, they might not. Remember Jim Iley? He had far more managerial experience than Howard Kendall who accepted his first job in management at Ewood. Which of those two was a success and which was a failure? Experience counted for very little in Iley's case.

The real problem remains the owners who seem to have no real plan for the rebuilding or restructuring of the club. Giving the job to Gary at least means we have a chance of restructuring as he knows the club, the community and everything that the Rovers are about. Sure he will make mistakes but then what manager doesn't? If Venky's are prepared to stand the debt for another year or two then I would happily stick with Gary and give him the opportunity to rebuild the club from top to bottom.

Another great post there again ParsonBlue

we don't know what the plan is from Venkys is from them next season. I would imagine no money to spend and budget of signing free transfers, loan players and using our players from under 21's and Academy. players like Jordan Preston, John O'Sullivan and Anton Forrester will surely come into the first tea picture next season.

Warnock, McLeish and Holloway would all be decent shouts.

Also why not try for Mackay.

you honestly think these managers would work for Venkys. no chance would Holloway or Mackay come here.

McLeish is desperado manager

[Amo]

Making Bowyer full-time manager is arguably the only logical decision Venky's have made since they took over.

[roversfan99]

No it isn't, we needed an experienced manager in the summer and went for the easy and cheap option.

[Waggy76]

Do the venkys really want promotion ?

This season, was all about promotion or bust, it is obvious too a blind man , we aint good enough..

There will relegation before there is promotion...

If I owned the club , I would appoint a proper manager , until that happens , we will nosedive even further....

I do not think venkys really want promotion at all...

It is a charade !

[Amo]

No it isn't, we needed an experienced manager in the summer and went for the easy and cheap option.

For once Venky's rewarded success instead of failure. That seems fairly logical to me.

[chaddyrovers]

For once Venky's rewarded success instead of failure. That seems fairly logical to me.

Bowyer deserve the job after his performance as caretaker manager. keeping us up..

This season GB decided to rebuilt the playing squad that was greatly needed. Alot of fans knew this needed doing big time.

people keep saying we needed Experience managers but what experience manager wanted the job this season. plus who says they would be doing any better. The honest answer is we DONT KNOW FOR SURE whether a experience guy would do any better!!!

[47er]

An experiencED manager would be more likely to achieve success than an inexperienced one surely? And that's what we should have got but they took the cheaper risk with Bowyer. We couldn't afford to drop 5 points against lower clubs at Christmas and the risk was, like all major Venky decisions, a mistake. They should have seen him as a manager of the future and "brought him through" learning from an expert. Not the Venky way though eh?

For what its worth, I never thought we would be promoted this season. At the start I tipped us to finish 9th and i still think that's about right. We are a middling championship club dreaming of a promotion that isn't going to happen. If things were so serious financially that we needed promotion, why didn't we go all out to get it? Instead Bowyer had to scrap aound in the lower divisions for freebies and the like. In particular a good, experienced keeper would have seen us several places higher but it was not to be and its all down to Venkys.

At the end of the season the light may finally dawn.

[Majiball]

That's generally how debating works. Considering some of the essays you write in defence of your arguments it should be your opinion as well... though in this instance I'm not surprised it isn't.

If you say so.

[Rover_Shaun]

This season GB decided to rebuilt the playing squad

Rebuilding for mid-table annomity but nothing more. N'songo, Judge, Marrow and to a fair extent Marshall have all been average, disappointing to downright pointless

people keep saying we needed Experience managers but what experience manager wanted the job this season.

How the hell do we know because they couldn't be arsed to to find out and chose lazy sentiment.

I'm sure that on the entire planet there were only 2 men who could guide the quality of squad we HAD onto the rocks and that was Berg and Appleton and we employed them both :/

[Rover_Shaun]

Some like stats so here some for you. I thought I would see where we were at New year last season expecting to see some daylight between us and last seasons squad (as I had forgot) and was surprised to see a virtually identical table

Rovers position at the end of 2012

Pos 15th P24 W8 D8 L8 F32 A33 Pts32

avg points per game 1.33 (play off positions @ 40 points)

Rovers position at the end of 2013

Pos 12th P23 W8 D7 L8 F28 A27 Pts31

avg pts/game 1.35 (play off positions @ 35 points)

So only a positive result at Leeds will keep us up with the class of 2012/13.

Current 2013/14 average points per game would leave us with FOUR more points than the end of 2012/13

Puts the long term Bowyer affect into some perspective. Obviously the Appleton era was yet to come last season

Links to tables

http://www.blackburnrovers-mad.co.uk/snapshot_tables/2012_2013/29/dec/blackburn_rovers/index.shtml

http://www.blackburnrovers-mad.co.uk/snapshot_tables/2013_2014/29/dec/blackburn_rovers/index.shtml

[AlvinStraight]

Rebuilding for mid-table annomity but nothing more. N'songo, Judge, Marrow and to a fair extent Marshall have all been average, disappointing to downright pointless

Marshall is becoming our best creative player, judge is a versatile grafter whose best I think is yet to come, Song'o is still learning his trade Marrow! I'll give you that one he's just a cheap backup/last resort player and if you throw the successful Bowyer signings(and loanees) that you haven't mentioned into that as well he's probably spent less than 2.5-3 mill on the lot, not bad for a rookie manager.

Though I cant really argue with those stats you've just posted, all I can say is that I'm far more optimistic that we are slowly improving this season so far, The 'match day experience' is also much better(both with the football we are playing and the stadium atmosphere) and we are now playing more like a Rovers team(all be it a lower rent one than i'm used to in my lifetime)

[Rover_Shaun]

I just expected us to have amassed a few more points given our proximity to the top 6. Thats all.

Thankfully Appleton isn't on the horizon this season

[LDRover]

Some like stats so here some for you. I thought I would see where we were at New year last season expecting to see some daylight between us and last seasons squad (as I had forgot) and was surprised to see a virtually identical table

Rovers position at the end of 2012

Pos 15th P24 W8 D8 L8 F32 A33 Pts32

avg points per game 1.33 (play off positions @ 40 points)

Rovers position at the end of 2013

Pos 12th P23 W8 D7 L8 F28 A27 Pts31

avg pts/game 1.35 (play off positions @ 35 points)

So only a positive result at Leeds will keep us up with the class of 2012/13.

Current 2013/14 average points per game would leave us with FOUR more points than the end of 2012/13

Puts the long term Bowyer affect into some perspective. Obviously the Appleton era was yet to come last season

Links to tables

http://www.blackburnrovers-mad.co.uk/snapshot_tables/2012_2013/29/dec/blackburn_rovers/index.shtml

http://www.blackburnrovers-mad.co.uk/snapshot_tables/2013_2014/29/dec/blackburn_rovers/index.shtml

Blimey. So the reality is that he's done as well as Kean and Berg???

That's a pretty sobering thought.

[JBiz]

Some like stats so here some for you. I thought I would see where we were at New year last season expecting to see some daylight between us and last seasons squad (as I had forgot) and was surprised to see a virtually identical table

Rovers position at the end of 2012

Pos 15th P24 W8 D8 L8 F32 A33 Pts32

avg points per game 1.33 (play off positions @ 40 points)

Rovers position at the end of 2013

Pos 12th P23 W8 D7 L8 F28 A27 Pts31

avg pts/game 1.35 (play off positions @ 35 points)

So only a positive result at Leeds will keep us up with the class of 2012/13.

Current 2013/14 average points per game would leave us with FOUR more points than the end of 2012/13

Puts the long term Bowyer affect into some perspective. Obviously the Appleton era was yet to come last season

Links to tables

http://www.blackburnrovers-mad.co.uk/snapshot_tables/2012_2013/29/dec/blackburn_rovers/index.shtml

http://www.blackburnrovers-mad.co.uk/snapshot_tables/2013_2014/29/dec/blackburn_rovers/index.shtml

Blimey. So the reality is that he's done as well as Kean and Berg???

That's a pretty sobering thought.

There is a lot more to this than statistics, but if we have to go down that route, I would point out the difference in wage bills, experienced players, the downward trend generally and the distinct lack of idiotic decisions/comments from Pune or Shebby Singh.

Add that to a team that are actually motivated. Individual errors are the only difference between 12th and top 6 so far this season for us (IMO). Comparing that to last seasons "cover your eyes and pretend it isn't happening" experience.....

Keep Bowyer!

[Paul]

 

My preference would be Holloway or Warnock, both would get that extra 10% out of the players that Bowyer seemingly cannot and both have promoted teams with limited ability, so we'd have a chance..

On current form the extra 10% would see us in sixth place with 37 points.

Not too difficult to see why some supporters feel a different manager might get us up.

[CapeTownRover]

out of interest sake, when Tony Parkes kept us up as caretaker manager, was he offered the job fulltime? if he was, did he decline it? i just cant remember that bit, and if this was at the time Kidd was made manager

[Paul]

Blimey. So the reality is that he's done as well as Kean and Berg???

That's a pretty sobering thought.

Well, statistically yes but there is more to it as has been said. GB's success to date has been to put out a team prepared to graft, play honestly and consistently work to the style he wants to play. He is doing far better than Kean and Berg when we look at the overall picture.

This though won't win us promotion. Till Christmas I've been happy to watch the season unfold but after taking 1 point from 6, and possibly 9, think Bowyer will not take us up. The Birmingham game was one of those days, it happens, but we really should have beaten Wednesday.

For those asking for alternative managers to be named I agree with den, it's pointless.

I feel we need a creative midfielder, can I name one? No. Am I interested to name one? No. It's my opinion if we had a young David Dunn type in the side we would do much better but I have too many other things in my life to analyse who and I lack the extensive knowledge of available players.

I never involve myself in the wish lists of players, managers, coaches as it is in my view firstly a pointless and secondly a pretty tedious discussion. I fully appreciate there are many, many fans who take great pleasure in such discussion and have no problem with that. It's good they take so much interest and gain pleasure from it. The discussion just isn't for me in the same way I'm sure my passion for cycling isn't shared by many who will just see it as boring.

As a spectator there is nothing wrong with being able to see the problem and discussing it, knowing the specific individual to answer the issue is another matter. If I did know the answer I might apply to run the club.

To dismiss someone's view or argument because they can't or won't name an alternative is quite disrespectful.

Personally if Holloway had been appointed earlier in the season I think it could have worked. Mackay I'm not sure. I wonder if the whole Cardiff situation just makes him flavour of the month everywhere?