[Archived] Bowyer

[broadsword]

I hardly think that is the case when there is still a manager in the job. Discreet enquiries might be more like. Such a move would screw team spirit, anger the fans and bring the club to disrepute.

?????

I was talking about the process to appoint a manager when Bowyer was caretaker. To invite applications for the gig now would be insane. Even for the giblet hawkers.

[CapeTownRover]

tis the problem though hey, Bowyer is full time manager right now, and would require the looneys to sack him! then they would have to bring in a manager who wont take @#/? off them, which means that they wont go for an experienced guy. so might as well stay with Bowyer then

[broadsword]

Unfortunately in our present situation it isn't just about what manager would work with Venky's, but also what manager Venky's would want to work with. Outspoken managers like Mackay, Warnock and Holloway are highly unlikely imo. Every manager they've brought in so far has been a yes man, disappointingly including Berg and also Appleton. I can't see them opting for somebody who would speak their mind about the state of the club.

I don't think it will be a problem we have to worry about for much longer.

Can't see Bowyer getting us promoted with this squad. And will Rhodes be gone next month?

And then, in the Summer, it's hard to see how the club would be able to continue financially. If you run any bodget on debt, with income falling faster than you can cut costs and cutting costs only resulting in a bleaker financial outlook, then something has to give at some point. It doesn't appear, in addition, that Venky's have a big enough income stream from their core business to cover these losses. But in any case, when have they ever given any indication that they actually even care?

I was going to correct my mispelling of "budget", but I felt it quite apt.

[CapeTownRover]

no plan B Brian?

[JBiz]

I really wish people would wake up to the fact that changing managers can/will have an adverse affect.

It's ok hoping for an improvement from a better manager - but history shows it can/will go wrong just as many, if not more times than it can lead to an improvement. Look at Steve McClaren - Nottingham Forest last year, Derby this year? The one thing that normally gives a good moniker for a managers quality is a full year in charge, however this as shown again that things can turn sour pretty fast. We should postpone this discussion till the Summer, the "promotion or bust" notion is irrelevant when the last 3/4 managers couldn't even guarantee stability.

Consider this without even taking into account the Rao's ineptitude for choosing a manager, or what happened to the other 3 managers we have had in the last 12 months.

[Rover_Shaun]

As far as the (championship) table reads we can surely all agree that Venky's ability to pick a manager hasn't got any better results wise after 4 goes

[CapeTownRover]

Bowyer is by no means a Dud

[broadsword]

I really wish people would wake up to the fact that changing managers can/will have an adverse affect.

You only bin a manager if his performance is not acceptable or if you have another manager lined-up who is a very good bet to do better.

Which is why Allardyce should never have been sacked.

The bone of contention is whether Bowyer's performance is acceptable. It's indisputable that he has had some sort of stabilising effect, and whilst he does seem to make some strange decisions, he has started to put this club back together again.

Whether or not his performance is acceptable depends on the future of this club if we do not get promoted this season. Because I don't think he's going to be able to get us up, and if that leads to financial melt-down then we should change manager. But clearly we have no certain knowledge of this area to be able to judge that.

As for having someone lined-up who's better, we should judge by the criteria of "what should Venky's do in this situation?" and not: "what should Venky's do in this situation, given that they're likely to shaft it right up with another daft appointment afterwards?"

[Rover_Shaun]

I edited that as you replied lol. Bit harsh at the moment. He's taken the turning to that destination but not there yet. he may yet pull off that road. We can only hope.

It's worrying that we are in the same position this year as we were last. Lose to Leeds and we are a point worse off. Albeit Appleton isn't on the horizon but there has been no marked improvement under Bowyeer. There have been and are managers who have done far more on similar or less budgets. The "at least he's not kean, berg, appleton" period is over. The honeymoon is over. Some fans may have had their sense of ambition totally destroyed by Venkys but stop using the past as an excuse Gary and earn your wage!

[JBiz]

I edited that as you replied lol. Bit harsh at the moment. He's taken the turning to that destination but not there yet. he may yet pull off that road. We can only hope.

It's worrying that we are in the same position this year as we were last. Lose to Leeds and we are a point worse off. Albeit Appleton isn't on the horizon but there has been no marked improvement under Bowyeer. There have been and are managers who have done far more on similar or less budgets. The "at least he's not kean, berg, appleton" period is over. The honeymoon is over. Some fans may have had their sense of ambition totally destroyed by Venkys but stop using the past as an excuse Gary and earn your wage!

My problem with your opinion completely hinges on the bold part of this post.

Thanks to the Rao's stupidity, the last 3 years have seen a constant haemorrhaging of money, talent, fans and expertise. Expectations have to fall in line. We sat and watched teams like Swansea use their heads and move up on past us (doing exactly what we did with Mark Hughes) whilst we tumbled through idiocy. Expectations at current should be around consolidation, followed by sustained improvement when we finally get rid of the rest of the dross we assembled in those foolish times.

At current, a whinging fan base is only going to be detrimental to Gary's chances of constant marginal improvement. Look at the way the team played in the second half on sunday - it's not rocket science to realise the fans fed off the performance and the players fed off the noise from the crowd.

I understand people have frustration, but us Rovers fans, should now realise how soul destroying watching your club fall from grace is. Be thankful and gracious to the manager who stopped us dropping into the third tier, and has at least improved the team on the pitch this season. Statistics or not, only the blindest fans could say that we are worse/same in performance as of this time last year.

Football is a results business, and I think we owe GB at least a full season in charge before we start lining up the next fall guy.

[Stuart]

My problem with your opinion completely hinges on the bold part of this post.

Thanks to the Rao's stupidity, the last 3 years have seen a constant haemorrhaging of money, talent, fans and expertise. Expectations have to fall in line. We sat and watched teams like Swansea use their heads and move up on past us (doing exactly what we did with Mark Hughes) whilst we tumbled through idiocy. Expectations at current should be around consolidation, followed by sustained improvement when we finally get rid of the rest of the dross we assembled in those foolish times.

At current, a whinging fan base is only going to be detrimental to Gary's chances of constant marginal improvement. Look at the way the team played in the second half on sunday - it's not rocket science to realise the fans fed off the performance and the players fed off the noise from the crowd.

I understand people have frustration, but us Rovers fans, should now realise how soul destroying watching your club fall from grace is. Be thankful and gracious to the manager who stopped us dropping into the third tier, and has at least improved the team on the pitch this season. Statistics or not, only the blindest fans could say that we are worse/same in performance as of this time last year.

Football is a results business, and I think we owe GB at least a full season in charge before we start lining up the next fall guy.

I would completely agree with this post... if we lived in a parallel universe where the club had time to consolidate.

Sadly, I fear our consolidation will not start until we are in the third tier you believe Bowyer is keeping us from.

[Riverside67]

The lowering of expectations came some time ago and 67 was when I first went so watching non top flight football has never been a problem.

What is an issue are trying to falsify poor performances and blaming bad luck for lack of progression. That doesn't wash anymore.

That smacks of cover up when Bowyer has got it wrong. However I do like the guy and I want to back him but he is repeating the same erros and not learning. So are his players.

The current game plan has gone stale and if we are to move forward again I think the guy needs to be braver.

The tactics do not play to some of our players strenghts and some players are favoured too much when their contributions are minimal.

one things for sure the league table, the performances and results tell us we are no more than average and that needs to change.

To my mind both tactics and players need a re think.

[JBiz]

I would completely agree with this post... if we lived in a parallel universe where the club had time to consolidate.

Sadly, I fear our consolidation will not start until we are in the third tier you believe Bowyer is keeping us from.

I appreciate where you are coming from but there isn't a point in worrying about something we have no control of. Until we get short of FFP (officially) or we stop paying the staff wages - I'll try not to get too concerned with the clubs balance.

[Gav]

My problem with your opinion completely hinges on the bold part of this post.

Thanks to the Rao's stupidity, the last 3 years have seen a constant haemorrhaging of money, talent, fans and expertise. Expectations have to fall in line. We sat and watched teams like Swansea use their heads and move up on past us (doing exactly what we did with Mark Hughes) whilst we tumbled through idiocy. Expectations at current should be around consolidation, followed by sustained improvement when we finally get rid of the rest of the dross we assembled in those foolish times.

At current, a whinging fan base is only going to be detrimental to Gary's chances of constant marginal improvement. Look at the way the team played in the second half on sunday - it's not rocket science to realise the fans fed off the performance and the players fed off the noise from the crowd.

I understand people have frustration, but us Rovers fans, should now realise how soul destroying watching your club fall from grace is. Be thankful and gracious to the manager who stopped us dropping into the third tier, and has at least improved the team on the pitch this season. Statistics or not, only the blindest fans could say that we are worse/same in performance as of this time last year.

Football is a results business, and I think we owe GB at least a full season in charge before we start lining up the next fall guy.

As Stuart has already mentioned, I also think we're against the clock, otherwise I'd not be even considering a change in manager.

The rumours coming out of the club seem to indicate that the owners are wising up to the financial mess they're in, and whilst them jumping ship would be the best for all concerned, the clubs probably going to be in a terrible mess finaically, so if that is the case we need promotion this season.

[yoda]

As Stuart has already mentioned, I also think we're against the clock, otherwise I'd not be even considering a change in manager.

The rumours coming out of the club seem to indicate that the owners are wising up to the financial mess they're in, and whilst them jumping ship would be the best for all concerned, the clubs probably going to be in a terrible mess finaically, so if that is the case we need promotion this season.

If they jump ship then what the club needs to know is (and shelfy probably does know), what is the debt owed to entities other than the Raos, might be less than we realise

[Mercer]

Our situation reminds me very much of Derby County.

Nigel Clough brought 'stability' and was a 'long term' planner, very much a 'slow burner' - we saw that at Burton Albion where he took years to even get them into the Conference. I see GB very much in the Nigel Clough mould.

In goes McClaren at Derby with Clough's squad, not dissimilar to Rovers in terms of talent, and bingo!!!

Unless GB is replaced, I can only see Rovers trundling along as a mid table Championship side, finances allowing and that's a huge assumption.

Feels like we need a manager with some verve, personality, real passion and tactical nous. I am sure this type of manager would galvanise both fans and players, getting that extra 10%+ that makes a huge difference.

The arguments that who better than GB could we get and who would want to work for Venky's are fallacious and an insult to the intelligence of the fans - there would be no shortage of candidates, and good ones at that with success on their cv's.

For the sake of Rovers' future, Venky's need to bite the bullet and pretty dam quick.

[RevidgeBlue]

Still early days for McClaren. Perhaps Forest also thought Schteeve was a sure fire guarantee of success when he went in there?.

[Riverside67]

Mercerman Bowyer certainly deserves more time. He has had an awful lot of rottenness to sort out. Best and Campbell are still part of that legacy, If we could sell those two and get Wells that would be a huge plus but I cannot see it to be honest.

To be fair injuries have also been unbeliveable for Rovers this last 12 months particularly when players were just coming into form.

I do agree the clock is ticking now for him.. He has to move on from being Mr Average and the lack of imagination in terms of game plan appears a problem he cannot overcome.

The individual errors problem now appears to have reached chronic proportions.with no sign of a resolution.

His coaching skills appear good when you look at Marshall's and Evans progress this year but managing a system and the individuals

to execute effectively on it remains a big doubt.

Conistency has been his biggest challenge and so far he has come up short.

[FGS5635]

You could argue that continual individual errors isnt coaching, but lack of talent. Good players dont keep making individual errors

Said it before, but for all Bowyers supposed shortcomings if it wasnt for our goalkeepers having nightmare seasons we would be comfartbly in the playoff places

[JBiz]

Our situation reminds me very much of Derby County.

Nigel Clough brought 'stability' and was a 'long term' planner, very much a 'slow burner' - we saw that at Burton Albion where he took years to even get them into the Conference. I see GB very much in the Nigel Clough mould.

In goes McClaren at Derby with Clough's squad, not dissimilar to Rovers in terms of talent, and bingo!!!

Unless GB is replaced, I can only see Rovers trundling along as a mid table Championship side, finances allowing and that's a huge assumption.

Feels like we need a manager with some verve, personality, real passion and tactical nous. I am sure this type of manager would galvanise both fans and players, getting that extra 10%+ that makes a huge difference.

The arguments that who better than GB could we get and who would want to work for Venky's are fallacious and an insult to the intelligence of the fans - there would be no shortage of candidates, and good ones at that with success on their cv's.

For the sake of Rovers' future, Venky's need to bite the bullet and pretty dam quick.

The prodigal son returns with such distinct polarised opinions. Never saw that one coming.

Let me guess, You heard a whisper and you've had your christmas money on Dunn being the next manager?

[Gav]

Mercerman Bowyer certainly deserves more time. He has had an awful lot of rottenness to sort out. Best and Campbell are still part of that legacy, If we could sell those two and get Wells that would be a huge plus but I cannot see it to be honest.

Conistency has been his biggest challenge and so far he has come up short.

I think a much stronger more experienced manager would have had both Best and Campbell knocking in the goals, they've both scored goals at other clubs, so why not here?

[FGS5635]

I think a much stronger more experienced manager would have had both Best and Campbell knocking in the goals, they've both scored goals at other clubs, so why not here?

Best hasnt really knocked them in anywhere and is a grade A Kean. DJ has been injured and then arrested once fit. Bit unfair to tarnish him becasue of those 2 players in my opinion

[JBiz]

I think a much stronger more experienced manager would have had both Best and Campbell knocking in the goals, they've both scored goals at other clubs, so why not here?

Campbell - injury and betting scandals

Leon best - 35k a week, injury and a distinct problem attitude. Not a player a manager with common sense would have paid that for.

[Riverside67]

Bad uns both. Time for a cleam start with those two.

Gestede maybe a target man alternative but we could with another speedie type up there.

Wells would be ideal in my opinion.

[FGS5635]

Easier said than done signing another striker. Unless we make a firm commitment to 442, then no decent striker is going to come here knowing Jordan will always be the lone starter up front and the best they can hope for is a sub appearence here and there if we are chasing a game