[Archived] Bowyer

[Amo]

I've seen Cairney have good games on the wing and play poorly in the middle and vice versa.

Can I stand up now ?

Stop hedging. Is Cairney more effective centrally or out-wide?

That's as may be but earlier in the season for some reason we were vulnerable to leaking quite a few goals with opponents being given free shots from the edge or just outside our pen area. Burnley being the obvious one, Brum too but there were quite a few more. Two DM's will help prevent that but by definition will weaken attacking options. 'Build from the back' is still the blueprint for success.

...You do know we played Williamson & Lowe against Birmingham, right?

[JAL]

That's as may be but earlier in the season for some reason we were vulnerable to leaking quite a few goals with opponents being given free shots from the edge or just outside our pen area. Burnley being the obvious one, Brum too but there were quite a few more. Two DM's will help prevent that but by definition will weaken attacking options. 'Build from the back' is still the blueprint for success.

Get a better centre half in, then you dont need to waste a player on being more defensive in the centre of midfield. Suddenly the team will become more offensive as a whole if you've got stand alone centre halfs that can deal with anything in this league.

Or is it all about protecting or disguising Scott Danns value for now.

[Al]

Get a better centre half in, then you dont need to waste a player on being more defensive in the centre of midfield. Suddenly the team will become more offensive as a whole if you've got stand alone centre halfs that can deal with anything in this league.

There's nothing wrong with the centre halves it's just that the belt and braces of two defensive midfielders means that we struggle to score goals. We pass the ball about but never look like we are going to penetrate the opposing defence. If you don't score you can't win. No one ever got promoted with nil nil results.

[LDRover]

I think the other thing to add is that when we were forced into an offensive line up at Leeds we scored 2, created numerous chances and were hardly under the cosh.

Whether that's more about Leeds's poor play or our set up I don't know but it proves that we're not reliant on 2 x DMs.

[martonrover]

This is a very difficult one.

I firmly believe that Cairney is totally wasted outwide, he is the one genuine technically gifted player that we have and we have to get him on the ball as much as possible. When he is played out wide, we just don't get enough of the ball to him and therefore he becomes less effective. He hasn't done it yet, but in the middle he has the ability to control games, particularly against teams who come to Ewood to sit deep. However, I also think that Lowe is a good player. He does a lot of work off the ball which goes unoticed. As others have said, Gary knows his strengths better than anyone else and feels that he has to be in the team due to the way he wants to set us up in a defensive sense.

So it is a difficult one. It was great to win yesterday, but I think that Gary was overly cautious yesterday by playing Lowe and Williamson. He needs to be a bit braver at home against weaker sides. In the second half Lowe/Williamson dropped deeper and deeper. this allowed Doncaster to push forward and dominate us, felt that if Cairney has been in the middle during the second half then maybe we may have gained a bit of control with his ability to retain possession.

However, we are now on the right track. I am sure that over the next few months Gary will tweak his approach to get the balance right between attacking and defence. At least we now play as a team which is a darn sight better than what we have seen over the last 3 years.

Totally agree.

The strange thing is that Gary set up with an almost gung-ho team / formation for a potentially tricky away game at Leeds, resulting in us completely bossing the game.

Why then does he go back into his shell at home to Donny?

For me the way he set us up almost cost us two points.

[onlyonejackwalker]

Not sure how people can say we would have bossed the game and won easily by dropping either of Willowe. Sounds like pure speculation and guesswork to me, so it's a little tricky to take seriously. For all thry know we could have been beaten 0.3 playing a different combination of players.

Truth be told we won 1.0. A winning result and defensive clean sheet would have the manager telling you he picked the correct team.

So many fans harping on about this issue. 'If we can see it why can't the manager?' they ask each other.

Clearly they would be far better off asking themselves and trying to work it out, as firstly it's getting tedious now and secondly, hardly rocket science anyway.

[RevidgeBlue]

In the last three home League games we've drawn one lost one and won one scraping home by the odd goal. We need to be a lot more convincing than that if we're to make that extra jump into the play off positions imo.

[FGS5635]

Donny huffed and puffed in that 2nd half, but apart from the last min of injury time they never threatened robbo. Yeah we could have attacked more, but at what expense? maybe Donny do open us up easier then and score a goal. We cant just attack more and more and not expect to give something defensivley. For me the issue isnt as much formation, 2 defensive midfielders, its players not named Jordan Rhodes taking chances. We are creating enough to score 2,3,4 goals a game, but for whatever reason we are not taking said chances. The game v donny should have been over at half time with what we created 1st half. Cairney himself missed an abosolute sitter and also had another very good chance to

[Al]

Not sure how people can say we would have bossed the game and won easily by dropping either of Willowe. Sounds like pure speculation and guesswork to me, so it's a little tricky to take seriously. For all thry know we could have been beaten 0.3 playing a different combination of players.

Truth be told we won 1.0. A winning result and defensive clean sheet would have the manager telling you he picked the correct team.

So many fans harping on about this issue. 'If we can see it why can't the manager?' they ask each other.

Clearly they would be far better off asking themselves and trying to work it out, as firstly it's getting tedious now and secondly, hardly rocket science anyway.

Wouldn't do for us all to agree. There would be no discussion but you do appear to be in the minority.

[jim mk2]

you do appear to be in the minority.

In this tiny closed world maybe. The other 95 per cent went home happy with a win.

[Shabani]

95%? ha! an utter lie, most people had faces like they'd spent an 90 mins listening to their mother-in-laws

Anyway

Lets compare the Leeds away games and Doncaster home games tactically

Against Leeds we played an attacking line up, took charge of the game early on and pressed home our advantages in possession and chances with a positive set up because we had attack minded personnel on the pitch

Against Doncaster we should've replicated these tactics and gone for the jugular of a side low on confidence, who are crap away from home. Instead they were in the game till the very end and we limped across the finish line

[onlyonejackwalker]

95%? ha! an utter lie, most people had faces like they'd spent an 90 mins listening to their mother-in-laws

Anyway

Lets compare the Leeds away games and Doncaster home games tactically

Against Leeds we played an attacking line up, took charge of the game early on and pressed home our advantages in possession and chances with a positive set up because we had attack minded personnel on the pitch

Against Doncaster we should've replicated these tactics and gone for the jugular of a side low on confidence, who are crap away from home. Instead they were in the game till the very end and we limped across the finish line

Were you one of those predicting a 4 or 5 goal thrashing of Doncaster?

[Shabani]

No because I knew what side Bowyer would put out, and recent home performances suggest we don't spank anyone

[yoda]

95%? ha! an utter lie, most people had faces like they'd spent an 90 mins listening to their mother-in-laws

Anyway

Lets compare the Leeds away games and Doncaster home games tactically

Against Leeds we played an attacking line up, took charge of the game early on and pressed home our advantages in possession and chances with a positive set up because we had attack minded personnel on the pitch

Against Doncaster we should've replicated these tactics and gone for the jugular of a side low on confidence, who are crap away from home. Instead they were in the game till the very end and we limped across the finish line

Like we did in 95

what does the record show?

[Shabani]

apples and oranges

[Parsonblue]

No because I knew what side Bowyer would put out, and recent home performances suggest we don't spank anyone

You don't need to spank anyone to be a success in the League. In 1979-80, Howard Kendall built a team that could defend and hold onto a lead. We won 11 games that season 1-0 and won promotion. If you can get the defence right there is every chance you will win a game. People keep telling me that Rhodes will always score so therefore if we keep a clean sheet and Rhodes or Gestede nick a goal we get three points. Kendall did that very successfully with Andy Crawford scoring the goals and the rest of the team making sure we were solid in defence.

Of course, you could argue that the 1979-80 side was a much better outfit than the present one with the likes of Kendall and Parkes in midfield and McKenzie creating havoc in attack. Nonetheless, all successful teams build from the back first and get a solid foundation. Gary clearly believes that two holding players help to make the present team more solid defensively.

[yoda]

apples and oranges

not really, we are what we are

[Shabani]

You don't need to spank anyone to be a success in the League. In 1979-80, Howard Kendall built a team that could defend and hold onto a lead. We won 11 games that season 1-0 and won promotion. If you can get the defence right there is every chance you will win a game. People keep telling me that Rhodes will always score so therefore if we keep a clean sheet and Rhodes or Gestede nick a goal we get three points. Kendall did that very successfully with Andy Crawford scoring the goals and the rest of the team making sure we were solid in defence.

Of course, you could argue that the 1979-80 side was a much better outfit than the present one with the likes of Kendall and Parkes in midfield and McKenzie creating havoc in attack. Nonetheless, all successful teams build from the back first and get a solid foundation. Gary clearly believes that two holding players help to make the present team more solid defensively.

Ideally this is what we'd do, we need to stop giving away penalties which has been a problem for two seasons+ and defend a bit better from set pieces. I'd rather see us build on this than paper over the problem with two holding DMs

[Neal]

Not sure how people can say we would have bossed the game and won easily by dropping either of Willowe. Sounds like pure speculation and guesswork to me, so it's a little tricky to take seriously. For all thry know we could have been beaten 0.3 playing a different combination of players.

No it's not guesswork when your best passer of a ball is shoved out wide. Cairney retains possession better than anyone in our squad, which was proved against City & Leeds, we know that & Bowyer knows that... Black & white, plain and simple. If they don't have the ball only we can score & such a decision almost cost us 3 points on Saturday... Fine we won but a better team would have punished us, that's why Doncaster are struggling.

I know why he's playing Lowe, he covers ground, trains hard & talks on the pitch, I know why he plays Williamson, because of his experience but playing both at the cost of moving Cairney out wide his hurting our performances & will ultimately hurt his development.

[thenodrog]

...You do know we played Williamson & Lowe against Birmingham, right?

Exception that proves the rule then. I must say that shot was virtually unstoppable.

Get a better centre half in, then you dont need to waste a player on being more defensive in the centre of midfield. Suddenly the team will become more offensive as a whole if you've got stand alone centre halfs that can deal with anything in this league.

Or is it all about protecting or disguising Scott Danns value for now.

Who do you have in mind JAL?

[thenodrog]

Totally agree.

The strange thing is that Gary set up with an almost gung-ho team / formation for a potentially tricky away game at Leeds, resulting in us completely bossing the game.

Why then does he go back into his shell at home to Donny?

For me the way he set us up almost cost us two points.

Dunno. It seems obvious to me that after the City game we should have stuck with the same starting X1. GB must have been trying to find a place in the team for Jordan Rhodes.

[thenodrog]

Against Doncaster we should've replicated these tactics and gone for the jugular of a side low on confidence, who are crap away from home. Instead they were in the game till the very end and we limped across the finish line

You are as good as your last result............

Previous league match they lead 1-0 and only lost to an injury time goal to promotion favourites...http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25512780

[Shabani]

In their last 8 away games before playing us they had conceded 19 times.

[Amo]

Exception that proves the rule then.

That makes no sense.

Anyway, what's all this talk about "gung-ho"? Nothing cavalier about a Cairney & Lowe/Williamson combo. It's the equilibrium needed in the centre of the park.

[JAL]

Exception that proves the rule then. I must say that shot was virtually unstoppable.

Who do you have in mind JAL?

With Craig Short there i'm confident that team GB would be able to identify and bring in someone who's competent for the position afterall they've not done too badly with the Rudy and Cairney signings .