[Archived] Bowyer

[Amo]

If he hadn't had an impact Stuart we wouldn't have signed him. Cairney has said he's happy playing on the right, Gary wants him on the right. The only folk unhappy seem to be a few fans who think they know more than those who work on the training ground everyday. "Football Manager" certainly has a lot to answer for

It boils down to this: Do you play your best CM at LM or RM? Nope.

You can dress it up all you want but Bowyer's wrong here.

[JBiz]

It boils down to this: Do you play your best CM at LM or RM? Nope.

You can dress it up all you want but Bowyer's wrong here.

If you only look at the argument in one way you might come to that answer. I think the genuine answer is less simple; this from taking into account his good level of performances on the flank, Judge/Taylor/King's form outside being inconsistent, having to select Williamson due to him being the only midfielder (fit) in the squad with proper defensive experience and the fact that Cairney is that good you can't not play him!

It's not black and white- I believe cairney is better suited to a cm role but I don't think Williamson or Lowe can perform well enough of their own, as they both have what each other lacks! Experience and an engine respectively.

Cairney also looked more anonymous behind the striker to me. We cannot play 12! And Gestede cannot be dropped- I think when Evans is fit and as Lowe continuously improves, you will see him centrally more often.

Considering the options, I think it a bit narrow minded for fans on here to call it a "mistake" however!

[Steve Moss]

In the 80's your special forces landed at the wrong airport in Syria I think it was

looks like the retired pilots and navigators are still at large in civvy street

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-25715186

A Southwest Airlines crew landing at the wrong airport is not evidence of US Special Forces landing at the wrong airport (and I looked). Though I did discover a story about a US Air Force plane landing at a wrong airport (within the USA, separated by a few miles).

That said, I don't doubt you. When you have a military as large and as active as ours, screw ups will happen.

For example, in the lead up to the Revolutionary War: "North’s government agreed on one point: the Americans would pose little challenge in the event of war. The Americans had neither a standing army nor a navy; few among them were experienced officers. Britain possessed a professional army and the world’s greatest navy. Furthermore, the colonists had virtually no history of cooperating with one another, even in the face of danger. In addition, many in the cabinet were swayed by disparaging assessments of American soldiers leveled by British officers in earlier wars. For instance, during the French and Indian War (1754-63), Brig. Gen. James Wolfe had described America’s soldiers as “cowardly dogs.” Henry Ellis, the royal governor of Georgia, nearly simultaneously asserted that the colonists were a “poor species of fighting men” given to “a want of bravery.”'

. . .

However, by the end of the war, speaking of the American volunteer militia: "The militia had its shortcomings, to be sure, but America could not have won the war without it. As a British general, Earl Cornwallis, wryly put it in a letter in 1781, “I will not say much in praise of the militia, but the list of British officers and soldiers killed and wounded by them...proves but too fatally they are not wholly contemptible.”"

From which lessons we can learn that great military nations are not infallible.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

I think moving Cairney out wide is Bowyer's way of accommodating playing 2 strikers, neither of who are the type to drop back and do any defensive work. Especially at Ewood teams will sit back and look to hit us on the break, and would likely bypass Cairney immediately the majority of the time as he's tried to join in the attack and pace isn't one of his attributes. Tough one to call whether it'll be effective but he's probably thinking we can't afford many other debacles like that first half against Birmingham.

[Parsonblue]

It boils down to this: Do you play your best CM at LM or RM? Nope.

You can dress it up all you want but Bowyer's wrong here.

You are assuming that Gary doesn't think that Lowe is better in the middle than Cairney. Perhaps the manager thinks Lowe's work rate in the middle is more advantageous to the team in that particular position. At the end of the day we can argue about it all we want but there is only one opinion that matters and that is the manager's. He wants two holding midfield players and so he selects two holding midfield players. Fair enough. That's his job.

[jim mk2]

It boils down to this: Do you play your best CM at LM or RM? Nope.

You can dress it up all you want but Bowyer's wrong here.

It all boils down to results - and at the moment Bowyer is doing a reasonably good job. We may have won the Sheff Wed and Brum games with a different line up but we could have lost them both heavily - who knows. What we do know however is that no team wins all its games. What you also cannot say is that Bowyer has got it wrong because results show he plainly has not.

[broadsword]

After the three managers that Venky's have inflicted upon us, this guy is a breath of fresh air.

Playing Cairney on the flank may not be his best position, but given the trauma we've had inflicted upon us for teh last three years, I'm willing to trust in this guy given that he's gotten us close to the play-offs.

I for one am completely worn-out with it all and just want to enjoy winning again. I'd love Derek Shaw and Venky's to @#/? off, but unfortunately I don't have a magic wand.

So he plays Lowe and Cairney's on the side, well we'll get over it. Not the worst thing ever.

[thenodrog]

Personally given a full squad and on recent form to pick from I'd start most matches with Robinson in goal, defence as it is (although Henley / kane do make me a tad nervous), in front of them a five man midfield with Dunny in the hole behind Gestede and with the other 4 from Cairney, Evans, Taylor, Marshall, Lowe, King and Williamson (prob in that order depending on the opposition). No room in the starting line up for Rhodes unfortuantely but it would be a very strong team in this Div with an impressively strong bench providing lots of tactical options.

[Al]

If he hadn't had an impact Stuart we wouldn't have signed him. Cairney has said he's happy playing on the right, Gary wants him on the right. The only folk unhappy seem to be most of the fans who can see more than those who are blinkered on the training ground everyday.

Corrected it for you.

[trueblue]

Personally given a full squad and on recent form to pick from I'd start most matches with Robinson in goal, defence as it is (although Henley / kane do make me a tad nervous), in front of them a five man midfield with Dunny in the hole behind Gestede and with the other 4 from Cairney, Evans, Taylor, Marshall, Lowe, King and Williamson (prob in that order depending on the opposition). No room in the starting line up for Rhodes unfortuantely but it would be a very strong team in this Div with an impressively strong bench providing lots of tactical options.

Wow!! You aint even got him on the bench either Gordon

[Al]

Wow!! You aint even got him on the bench either Gordon

He's saving him for Lancashire United.

[den]

Personally given a full squad and on recent form to pick from I'd start most matches with Robinson in goal, defence as it is (although Henley / kane do make me a tad nervous), in front of them a five man midfield with Dunny in the hole behind Gestede and with the other 4 from Cairney, Evans, Taylor, Marshall, Lowe, King and Williamson (prob in that order depending on the opposition). No room in the starting line up for Rhodes unfortuantely but it would be a very strong team in this Div with an impressively strong bench providing lots of tactical options.

[Amo]

You are assuming that Gary doesn't think that Lowe is better in the middle than Cairney. Perhaps the manager thinks Lowe's work rate in the middle is more advantageous to the team in that particular position. At the end of the day we can argue about it all we want but there is only one opinion that matters and that is the manager's. He wants two holding midfield players and so he selects two holding midfield players. Fair enough. That's his job.

Bowyer isn't above reproach, Parson. There's definite room for improvement if we're looking to get into the playoffs. 20% according to Paul on the podcast. So while he's doing a steady job, there's a marked lack of consistency. I'd say that comes from moving key players like Cairney in and out of position. As soon as Lowe and Williamson are both fit and available, Cairney finds himself having to make way. He's our best ball-playing midfielder but he's not going to see as much of the ball out-wide. You don't need to be a Football Manager aficionado to spot this.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

95%? ha! an utter lie, most people had faces like they'd spent an 90 mins listening to their mother-in-laws

Anyway

Lets compare the Leeds away games and Doncaster home games tactically

Against Leeds we played an attacking line up, took charge of the game early on and pressed home our advantages in possession and chances with a positive set up because we had attack minded personnel on the pitch

Against Doncaster we should've replicated these tactics and gone for the jugular of a side low on confidence, who are crap away from home. Instead they were in the game till the very end and we limped across the finish line

Lets compare the results - both won by a single goal - mainly due to missed chances. In both games the second half performance wasn't as good as the first - though granted we were better against Leeds.

Bottom line - irrespective of two defensive midfield players or not - we created enough chances in the first half against Doncaster to put the game totally out of reach.

[tomphil]

Personally given a full squad and on recent form to pick from I'd start most matches with Robinson in goal, defence as it is (although Henley / kane do make me a tad nervous), in front of them a five man midfield with Dunny in the hole behind Gestede and with the other 4 from Cairney, Evans, Taylor, Marshall, Lowe, King and Williamson (prob in that order depending on the opposition). No room in the starting line up for Rhodes unfortuantely but it would be a very strong team in this Div with an impressively strong bench providing lots of tactical options.

Second impressive cast of the day Do you fly fish as well !

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Bowyer isn't above reproach, Parson. There's definite room for improvement if we're looking to get into the playoffs. 20% according to Paul on the podcast. So while he's doing a steady job, there's a marked lack of consistency. I'd say that comes from moving key players like Cairney in and out of position. As soon as Lowe and Williamson are both fit and available, Cairney finds himself having to make way. He's our best ball-playing midfielder but he's not going to see as much of the ball out-wide. You don't need to be a Football Manager aficionado to spot this.

I agree the best position for Cairney is in the centre - but it is a team game - and Bowyer obviously feels that (at the moment) for the good of the team - he is best out wide where he has less responsibility. A big thing is made of Cairney playing out wide - but when we are attacking he is often more central - it only seems to be when we are defending that he holds the flank. I look forward to Evans coming back - hopefully fully fit - as IMO Evans / Lowe and Cairney were the dream combination prior to Evans injury.

[Mike E]

Lets compare the results - both won by a single goal - mainly due to missed chances. In both games the second half performance wasn't as good as the first - though granted we were better against Leeds.

Bottom line - irrespective of two defensive midfield players or not - we created enough chances in the first half against Doncaster to put the game totally out of reach.

Pretty much my view. I.e: it isn't the formation as much as it's the personnel involved.

[onlyonejackwalker]

Lets compare the results - both won by a single goal - mainly due to missed chances. In both games the second half performance wasn't as good as the first - though granted we were better against Leeds.

Bottom line - irrespective of two defensive midfield players or not - we created enough chances in the first half against Doncaster to put the game totally out of reach.

Your 2nd paragraph is bob on. 3-0 at half time and no one would have been fretting at all.

[Al]

Your 2nd paragraph is bob on. 3-0 at half time and no one would have been fretting at all.

But it was only 1-0 and that only achieved in the dying seconds of the half. We just do not score enough goals with Bowyers defensive mindset and it shows that we are much better when he goes on the attack as he did the other week.

[Mike E]

But it was only 1-0 and that only achieved in the dying seconds of the half. We just do not score enough goals with Bowyers defensive mindset and it shows that we are much better when he goes on the attack as he did the other week.

We don't score enough goals, I agree. But it's nowt to do with playing 2 defensive mids and everything to do with other players aside from Rhodes not scoring. The chance creation isn't hampered by a defensive mindset, so goal-scoring isn't either. That is down to the players given the chance to score (usually the strikers, wingers and centre backs as well as the midfield).

[martonrover]

We don't score enough goals, I agree. But it's nowt to do with playing 2 defensive mids and everything to do with other players aside from Rhodes not scoring. The chance creation isn't hampered by a defensive mindset, so goal-scoring isn't either. That is down to the players given the chance to score (usually the strikers, wingers and centre backs as well as the midfield).

First and foremost my perspective is that Bowyer is doing a decent job.

However, as others have stated, he isn't beyond reproach.

Aside from Cairney's miss we didn't create many clear cut chances in the first half and their goalkeeper had little to do.

We also tailed off towards the end of the half, (the goal aside).

Man for man we clearly had the quality advantage to play a more attacking game and win the game more comfortably.

The main thing is we won but it was unnecessarily uncomfortable, especially towards the end.

[Parsonblue]

But it was only 1-0 and that only achieved in the dying seconds of the half. We just do not score enough goals with Bowyers defensive mindset and it shows that we are much better when he goes on the attack as he did the other week.

We had a great chance when Cairney moved into the centre and blasted the ball over the bar. We created chances but simply didn't make the most of them, it happens. For a defensive mindset we certainly created the goalscoring opportunities.

[broadsword]

In the modern argot, Cairney is "taking one for the team".

[Al]

We had a great chance when Cairney moved into the centre and blasted the ball over the bar. We created chances but simply didn't make the most of them, it happens. For a defensive mindset we certainly created the goalscoring opportunities.

We didn't create enough chances to go in better than 1-0 and really struggled to hang on against a poor team and in my mind that was due to an over defensive mindset allowing the opposition back into the game. If we had any other keeper than Robinson it would have cost us 2 points. Down to negative tactics.

[Majiball]

We had a great chance when Cairney moved into the centre and blasted the ball over the bar. We created chances but simply didn't make the most of them, it happens far too much at Rovers. For a defensive mindset we certainly created the goalscoring opportunities.

Don't you find it worrying that almost every match we can sit here saying we miss easy chances? We also make serious mistakes as well with frequency.