[Archived] Bowyer

[Stuart]

Who gives their son away?

You're not really known for your humour but that was good.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Ridiculous how reactive this forum is at times. Win two on the bounce and things are looking up, lose a game and all the old grievances are aired again.

Not sure how much its that and how much its Bowyer having his pretty consistent critics but most of them only feeling able to speak out when we've got beat. The perils of doing it at the wrong time were shown by the reaction to Mr E's post after City.

[patrickvalery]

Bad day at the office. Move on. Pick the players up and go again. Not the time to dwell on the result but definitely time to think about what we want from the season as a whole. Do we continue to try and keep things tight and nick a 0-1 or do we now say "we're safe from the drop, lets have a right good go at the play-offs"?

This is where we're at. Time to release the shackles and go for the jugular Mr Bowyer. What's to lose? The way I see it is we're in a fight in round eight. Well down on points and staring defeat in the face. If we lose, our kudos vanishes and we fight low end fights nobody cares about until we wither and die. Or we have a right good go for the final 4 rounds, try for a knock out and maybe get a shot at a prize fighter if we win. Nothing more to lose. Lets forget this conservative nonsense and actually have a go. This league really isn't all that special. QPR and Leicester aside, we aren't too far behind anyone else. I expected mid table in August but there is nothing to fear in this division.

Edit.

Sorry, that was all a bit amateur dramatics. But you get my point.

[Neal]

Bad day at the office. Move on. Pick the players up and go again. Not the time to dwell on the result but definitely time to think about what we want from the season as a whole. Do we continue to try and keep things tight and nick a 0-1 or do we now say "we're safe from the drop, lets have a right good go at the play-offs"?

This is where we're at. Time to release the shackles and go for the jugular Mr Bowyer. What's to lose? The way I see it is we're in a fight in round eight. Well down on points and staring defeat in the face. If we lose, our kudos vanishes and we fight low end fights nobody cares about until we wither and die. Or we have a right good go for the final 4 rounds, try for a knock out and maybe get a shot at a prize fighter if we win. Nothing more to lose. Lets forget this conservative nonsense and actually have a go. This league really isn't all that special. QPR and Leicester aside, we aren't too far behind anyone else. I expected mid table in August but there is nothing to fear in this division.

Edit.

Sorry, that was all a bit amateur dramatics. But you get my point.

Correct, accept I think Bowyer does need a day to dwell on this result and ask himself what he wished to accomplish from what he set out yesterday and how does that fit in to the bigger picture? Is he happy with a mid table finish? That sort selection suggested so.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

The players are on easy street. There are two types of people in the World. The ones who want to be part of the problem, and the ones who want to be part of the solution. We've got too many of the first group at the club.

[K-Hod]

Don't know how long we can still play this 'Stability' card now. Bowyer is under achieving, he doesn't know his best 11, keeps picking anti footballers in centre midfield, his teams don't press high enough & changes formations for the wrong games e.g Sheffield Wednesday.

He's tactics & selections are forcing the team to play within themselves. This doesn't help when your best centre mid is pushed out wide to waste.

I don't know how any times I can keep saying this but... I like the fella, I really do but I'm losing faith in him & this is not how I want it to turn out. I see people on here saying the manager knows best etc... But at the moment... He doesn't. He's getting it wrong with regards to Cairney, Lowe & Willliamson.

There's only one way we can gain stability... By winning games & pushing for promotion or playoffs... To do this then you have to TRY to win games. This group of players can beat anyone in this league but unfortunately Bowyer is holding them back from doing so.

Hope he gets it right, as he's a top bloke but what if give for someone like Malkie Mackay... A proper manager.

Pretty much how I see it too.

I do wish he'd play our best CM in his actual position, and stop playing the two defensive mids, I also wish, like Shabani, I had to keep saying this every week!!

[Stuart]

Good post Neal.

Bowyer doesn't set up teams to try to win, he sets up not to lose.

[Neal]

Not sure how much its that and how much its Bowyer having his pretty consistent critics but most of them only feeling able to speak out when we've got beat. The perils of doing it at the wrong time were shown by the reaction to Mr E's post after City.

Not sure it's either but granted there are a few consistent critics of his on here. I'd like to think that I'm pretty consistent & give him credit when it's due and stick when it's due... In fact I think most do. Unfortunately the criticism is more frequent as his wins aren't convincing and he's defeats aren't of a team intending to win a game.

Whats frustrating is that he's proved to himself (Leeds) that if you go to try to win a game then this team will deliver. Only himself to blame I'm afraid.

[arbitro]

Don't know how long we can still play this 'Stability' card now. Bowyer is under achieving, he doesn't know his best 11, keeps picking anti footballers in centre midfield, his teams don't press high enough & changes formations for the wrong games e.g Sheffield Wednesday.

He's tactics & selections are forcing the team to play within themselves. This doesn't help when your best centre mid is pushed out wide to waste.

I don't know how any times I can keep saying this but... I like the fella, I really do but I'm losing faith in him & this is not how I want it to turn out. I see people on here saying the manager knows best etc... But at the moment... He doesn't. He's getting it wrong with regards to Cairney, Lowe & Willliamson.

There's only one way we can gain stability... By winning games & pushing for promotion or playoffs... To do this then you have to TRY to win games. This group of players can beat anyone in this league but unfortunately Bowyer is holding them back from doing so.

Hope he gets it right, as he's a top bloke but what if give for someone like Malkie Mackay... A proper manager.

A well put post. Pretty much sums up how I and a lot of Rovers fans I speak to feel. This inexperience, nice guy and poisoned chalice stuff is past its sell by date. He has been in professional football long enough and if we can see things wrong he should be able to. I remember one experienced manager saying that loyalty can get you the sack when talking about players.

[yoda]

Good post Neal.

Bowyer doesn't set up teams to try to win, he sets up not to lose.

and that is the subtle difference why we are not in a higher position

[gumboots]

Our problem though is who else? By which I don't mean, who else is available/ would take the job as I accept there may be better out there willing and able to come. I mean who else would venkys give the job to? Who would they ask to advise them and whose advice would be any good? There is nobody but Shaw left at ewood so do we let him choose? If we could rely on getting someone in who stood a fair chance of being better, now might be time to change, but we can't rely on anything where our owners are concerned!

[DE.]

Good post Neal.

Bowyer doesn't set up teams to try to win, he sets up not to lose.

When you're starting with the likes of Eastwood, Hanley, Dann and Lowe as the spine of the team it's not hard to see why.

[jim mk2]

Don't know how long we can still play this 'Stability' card now. Bowyer is under achieving, he doesn't know his best 11, keeps picking anti footballers in centre midfield, his teams don't press high enough & changes formations for the wrong games e.g Sheffield Wednesday.

.

What the chuffing hell is an "anti-footballer" ? Successful football teams need creative players and holding players (the water carriers) - even Barcelona and Real Madrid. I take it this is just another pop at Lowe in which case it's pathetic.

[yoda]

Our problem though is who else? By which I don't mean, who else is available/ would take the job as I accept there may be better out there willing and able to come. I mean who else would venkys give the job to? Who would they ask to advise them and whose advice would be any good? There is nobody but Shaw left at ewood so do we let him choose? If we could rely on getting someone in who stood a fair chance of being better, now might be time to change, but we can't rely on anything where our owners are concerned!

It is not a problem, more an opportunity, can Bowyer learn and be more positive, will the owners twig the situation and take action.

Doing nothing would be a problem, there is scope for improvement with the current set of people at the club

[gumboots]

Scope, yes. Promise, not necessarily. I'd love it if bowyer can start to get more right than wrong as I think it IS good to have someone with the clubs interests at heart running things. If he doesn't start winning more and doing it more convincingly, then changes may have to be made and I'm sorry, but that really scares me.

[yoda]

Scope, yes. Promise, not necessarily. I'd love it if bowyer can start to get more right than wrong as I think it IS good to have someone with the clubs interests at heart running things. If he doesn't start winning more and doing it more convincingly, then changes may have to be made and I'm sorry, but that really scares me.

things change every minute of every day, you have to learn to cope with it

[DE.]

things change every minute of every day, you have to learn to cope with it

We went through 5 managers last season and nearly got relegated. Let's keep the changes to a minimum for now, eh?

[yoda]

We went through 5 managers last season and nearly got relegated. Let's keep the changes to a minimum for now, eh?

I never suggested changing the manager, I was suggesting the manager could improve

[DE.]

Perhaps, but I don't think Gary is doing that much wrong. To take a team in turmoil that nearly got relegated last season, using a negative summer transfer budget, to within 4 points of 6th by the middle of January isn't too bad for a rookie manager though. It's easy to say "be more positive" but is it not possible that Bowyer's current tactics are making the likes of Dann, Hanley and Lowe look far better than they normally would? If we switch regularly to a more attacking style who's to say we don't start conceding regularly by the bucketload and end up slipping down the table? At the very least we need Evans back and fit before contemplating a serious change of style imo.

With Dunn hopefully returning to full fitness for a few games soon, we may see some of the link up play up top improving. If we can get Gestede and Rhodes in the same team playing well together we could look like a more cohesive offensive unit.

[Roverthechimp]

Perspective - 0-0 at half time away from home at a "playoff rival" and most of us would have been satisfied. 1 dodgy penalty and 1 idiotic challenge and the situation looks oh so different. Bowyer is being criticised for doing exactly what almost all on here have been saying for 3 years - make us more solid and build a team that actually gives a @#/? while cutting our budget by 60 percent.

Job done as far as i am concerned - he has brought in good, young players and has identified what is needed (a left back, a total overhaul in midfield, a "lone" striker, a backup central defender) and this "nice guy Gaz" line that i read is contrary to what is actually happening. Look at the facts - Best given a proper bollocking and then dropped totally, Kean/Eastwood - dropped when form went off, Gestede brought in (to almost universal complaints) and Rhodes benched when appropriate, Marrow/Judge (seen as Bowyers players) dropped as soon as it was evident they couldn't quite hack it...

The list goes on.

Should he be immune from criticism - no but it needs to be objective, constructive and have some perspective. If next season we aren't in playoff places at christmas then is the time for a change.

The promotion or bust quote is from shelfy by the way - not what i would call a credible source...

[yoda]

Perhaps, but I don't think Gary is doing that much wrong. To take a team in turmoil that nearly got relegated last season, using a negative summer transfer budget, to within 4 points of 6th by the middle of January isn't too bad for a rookie manager though. It's easy to say "be more positive" but is it not possible that Bowyer's current tactics are making the likes of Dann, Hanley and Lowe look far better than they normally would? If we switch regularly to a more attacking style who's to say we don't start conceding regularly by the bucketload and end up slipping down the table? At the very least we need Evans back and fit before contemplating a serious change of style imo.

With Dunn hopefully returning to full fitness for a few games soon, we may see some of the link up play up top improving. If we can get Gestede and Rhodes in the same team playing well together we could look like a more cohesive offensive unit.

The evidence would suggest when we adopt an attacking attitude we win

[John]

Agree - Bowyer doing a pretty decent job so far. Considering it's his first managerial job, he's settled in well.

Always a lot of knee jerk reactions after certain results but that's football fans for you.

Perhaps he could be more "attacking", however conceding 4 yesterday suggests not too much I hope as we could start conceding more.

[Neal]

What the chuffing hell is an "anti-footballer" ? Successful football teams need creative players and holding players (the water carriers) - even Barcelona and Real Madrid. I take it this is just another pop at Lowe in which case it's pathetic.

Yes you do, but my point is you don't need 2 when you're mid-table, away from home against a team you need to catch & then 2-0 down.

Take it however you want. Speaking to you is like speaking to someone who has only just discovered fire. Dinosaur.

[jim mk2]

I can't take you seriously when you describe important members of the team as "anti-footballers". Sorry.

[DE.]

The evidence would suggest when we adopt an attacking attitude we win

We have barely ever adopted such an approach so it's impossible to make that statement with any certainly.

We've played cautiously for the majority of the season and it has us 4 points off 6th - that's the only fact.