[Archived] Bowyer

[JBiz]

So its fine to waste wages on numpties?

Even £1 wasted on dross like judge is £1 more than we could do with

Fancy a pint? Could do with a cheering up..

[Rover_Shaun]

Den. Some posters are saying it's ok to sign muppets on frees then get rid of them 4 months later without making a handful of appearances because they are on "low wages"*

* I wouldn't consider getting more in a week than I'd see in 6 months as being low

Bowyer can turn water to wine if you believe some of the nonsense on here. He'd be excused for doing everything and anything

Whilst he has done some good things he is not infallible or beyond critique

[den]

Some posters are saying it's ok to sign muppets on frees then get rid of them 4 months later

Who said that?

I'm saying he's not had to sell anyone that he wanted, but has been backed for 15 of his own. I don't call that being tough for a manager.

[Earlydoors]

I'll say it again

I can't think of any Rovers manager who has done as well in his first 8 months

[den]

I'll say it again

I can't think of any Rovers manager who has done as well in his first 8 months

That's debateable, but not the point I was picking up on.

[Parsonblue]

Den. Some posters are saying it's ok to sign muppets on frees then get rid of them 4 months later without making a handful of appearances because they are on "low wages"*

* I wouldn't consider getting more in a week than I'd see in 6 months as being low

Bowyer can turn water to wine if you believe some of the nonsense on here. He'd be excused for doing everything and anything

Whilst he has done some good things he is not infallible or beyond critique

True, but you don't seem to give anyone any credit for anything at the moment at Ewood. You may find it hard to believe but many supporters believe he's doing a decent job in difficult circumstances. The wages of footballers everywhere can't be compared with any other walk of life. That's not down to Gary or the club it's the way the game has become and I don't think you would get an argument that all players are vastly overpaid.

[RevidgeBlue]

Don't think you can blame GB on the recruitment front, he's done fairly well there imo.

Look at all the rubbish Allardyce signed, Van Heerden, Goulon, Linganzi, Benjani, M.B Diouf etc I'm sure there's quite a few others.

He only ever made two signings who wouldn't go down as downright poor imo, Kalinic who we somehow got our money back on and Nzonzi who we made a profit on.

[Blue blood]

True, but you don't seem to give anyone any credit for anything at the moment at Ewood. You may find it hard to believe but many supporters believe he's doing a decent job in difficult circumstances. The wages of footballers everywhere can't be compared with any other walk of life. That's not down to Gary or the club it's the way the game has become and I don't think you would get an argument that all players are vastly overpaid.

This is the nub of it and why you get so much debate.

Some people think he'd doing a brilliant job, so others point out the big mistakes that have been made. Equally some people think it's all doom and gloom - which also gets a robust response pointing out the good he has done.

For me decent sums it up well. He's doing a decent job, which is a heck of a lot better than anything we've had recently and for which I'm grateful. But I want the best for Rovers, and so as much as its a relief to be decent I also want us to do better. We have a fantastic opportunity with some talented players to push on, and Bowyer's inexperience has at times cost us. A more experienced manager would most likely do better.

For me it comes down to if it's promotion or bust. If it is, then decent isn't good enough. We must do better, decent will not get us promoted. However, if we are going to be ok for the next couple of seasons, then decent and promising is a heck of a lot better than anything we've had of late, and it'd be foolish to risk another Venkys managerial selection unless necessary - so lets keep on with Bowyer. Problem is, I suspect we're in the promotion or bust category.

[Jimmy612]

Don't think you can blame GB on the recruitment front, he's done fairly well there imo.

Look at all the rubbish Allardyce signed, Van Heerden, Goulon, Linganzi, Benjani, M.B Diouf etc I'm sure there's quite a few others.

He only ever made two signings who wouldn't go down as downright poor imo, Kalinic who we somehow got our money back on and Nzonzi who we made a profit on.

Givet

Diouf

Salgado

Dear me - can't resist a little stab at Allardyce every so often Simon. Approx £13.5m spent in 4 transfer windows at Rovers, the last of which he was given a budget of zilch. Took us up 10 places in the league in just 15 months and then had us comfortably 12th before being mindlessly sacked. Also, lest we forget if it hadn't been for a volcano eruption we would have had Robert Lewandowski playing for us.

Thankfully I am still able to enjoy your 'smug' message following the Liverpool match when you thought you had been proven right that 'attractive football' was possible and that Steve Kean was the man to lead us forward

[RevidgeBlue]

Givet

Diouf

Salgado

Dear me - can't resist a little stab at Allardyce every so often Simon. Approx £13.5m spent in 4 transfer windows at Rovers, the last of which he was given a budget of zilch. Took us up 10 places in the league in just 15 months and then had us comfortably 12th before being mindlessly sacked. Also, lest we forget if it hadn't been for a volcano eruption we would have had Robert Lewandowski playing for us.

Thankfully I am still able to enjoy your 'smug' message following the Liverpool match when you thought you had been proven right that 'attractive football' was possible and that Steve Kean was the man to lead us forward

Forgot abour Givet, he has to go down as a good signing despite the baggage and personal problems he seemed to cart around with him and the fact he apparently refused to play for us until a relegation clause was removed and the circumstances under which he left.

Diouf was ok for us, on extorrionate wages, nothing more than that

Salgado was a top bloke but at his age and on the wages he was nearer a poor than a good signing imo.

However in your usual haste to have a pop at me you're not for the first time missing the point completely. Den was criticising GB for poor recruitment with a limited budget. I was pointing out it's not that easy with little money and compared his record to Sam. If you want to debate that point go ahead.

[den]

This is the nub of it and why you get so much debate.

Some people think he'd doing a brilliant job, so others point out the big mistakes that have been made. Equally some people think it's all doom and gloom - which also gets a robust response pointing out the good he has done.

For me decent sums it up well. He's doing a decent job, which is a heck of a lot better than anything we've had recently and for which I'm grateful. But I want the best for Rovers, and so as much as its a relief to be decent I also want us to do better. We have a fantastic opportunity with some talented players to push on, and Bowyer's inexperience has at times cost us. A more experienced manager would most likely do better.

For me it comes down to if it's promotion or bust. If it is, then decent isn't good enough. We must do better, decent will not get us promoted. However, if we are going to be ok for the next couple of seasons, then decent and promising is a heck of a lot better than anything we've had of late, and it'd be foolish to risk another Venkys managerial selection unless necessary - so lets keep on with Bowyer. Problem is, I suspect we're in the promotion or bust category.

That's exactly what I'm trying to say.

[Rover_Shaun]

Also, lest we forget if it hadn't been for a volcano eruption we would have had Robert Lewandowski playing for us.

Love that 'tale'.

He had a near miss. Rather than being a much sought after striker and a european finalist he'd now be a nobody in the nether regions of Polish football after being the lone man in Sam's hit and hope world. A few seasons of trying to trap exorcet missiles and watching aimless punts fly way over his head would have done his development the world of good. See Kalanic for an apt example

[thenodrog]

You have to look at the wages as well Parson. The wages are all part of bringing a player in. It's the cost of the whole contract that matters, not just the transfer fee. These 15 players contracts will be costing the club millions.

I imagine every one of those 15 he brought in, were his choice as well. He must have thought they would have strengthened the squad, otherwise he wouldn't have brought them in. He didn't have to bring them in, heaven knows the squad was big enough already.

Getting rid of the deadwood isn't a problem eiither, is it? It should be beneficial to the club as a whole. Beneficial financially and beneficial to the squads morale. Has he been made to sell any player that he wanted to keep?

I'm happy to concede he's done OK. Let's not get carried away by how tough he's had it financially though Parson.

No way of knowing but I would imagine the wage structures for the incoming players will be Championship level and far less than the stupid moneies paid out previously.

So its fine to waste wages on numpties?

Even £1 wasted on dross like judge is £1 more than we could do with

Unfair that imo. Judge is OK and not my definition of dross. He gives his all, has a good 'brain' and good distribution. His problem is that he is too lightweight and has little pace.

Den. Some posters are saying it's ok to sign muppets on frees then get rid of them 4 months later without making a handful of appearances because they are on "low wages"*

* I wouldn't consider getting more in a week than I'd see in 6 months as being low

Bowyer can turn water to wine if you believe some of the nonsense on here. He'd be excused for doing everything and anything

Whilst he has done some good things he is not infallible or beyond critique

Which football manager is?

[den]

Den was criticising GB for poor recruitment with a limited budget.

Why does everything I post these days, get twisted?

I wasn't criticising Bowyer for his poor recruitment. I was dispelling this myth that he's been hard done by with the backing for new players. I'll say it again - and no one has shown otherwise - yet, that he hasn't had to sell anyone who was part of his regular squad or team ( apart from maybe Olssen), while on the other hand he's brought in 15 players that he wanted, probably with more to come.

You want hard done by managers? Try the likes of Gordon Lee, Bobby Saxton and others from that era.

[den]

No way of knowing but I would imagine the wage structures for the incoming players will be Championship level and far less than the stupid moneies paid out previously.

Without doubt, but not the point. The highly paid players were no loss to him because they weren't playing anyway. But, for the umpteenth time, he's been allowed to spend a lot of money. He chose to spend it the way he did.

[thenodrog]

I think I detect a few Allardyce haters coming out from under their stones now that his club are seen to be struggling in the Premier League. btw that sentence employs rather more than a little irony.

Some people simply cannot admit to being wrong can they?

[Roverthechimp]

I think the "debate" stems from where you set the cut off point. Bowyers transfer dealings look sensational compared to what went before - perhaps better to compare a club with a similar "current" transfer budget?

A different way to judge would be to ask how many of his signings have a) lost value and/or are on wages that mean we can't even give them away?

Based on that and the quite evident change in attitudes then i would give him a solid 9/10 for his transfer dealings "in the situation we had" and possibly a 7/10 disregarding those circumstances.

Den - i understand your point but it is hard to consider that he has had "a lot" to spend when 10 signings have probably cost the same as 1 years wages for 2 of our previous signings...

[den]

Den - i understand your point but it is hard to consider that he has had "a lot" to spend when 10 signings have probably cost the same as 1 years wages for 2 of our previous signings...

15 players, plus probably more is a lot in this league. What the previous players were earning is irrelevant. Basically, Bowyer has been allowed to keep all the players that he wanted, while being allowed to sign 15 more. That isn't being hard done by.

Is it?

Or am I losing my grip on life?

[thenodrog]

Which players do you object to? I'm not too sure that Spurr has what it takes but he does a job as does Kilgallon, after that Cairney, Evans, Taylor and Marshall all look decent and perform pretty well. Gestede looks to be exactly the presence that we have been needing up top and Mahoney is one for the future hopefully. Judge is an honest grafter and OK ish and I haven't seen enough of Marrow but by popular concensus he seems to be the weakest signing. They will all be on manageable wages I assume and are nearly all on the right side of 25.

Den.... Who would you have liked us to sign who would have been as cheap, as young, as good AND who would eagerly sign for a club in such a godawful mess both on and off the pitch?

He failed when he threw the baby out with the bathwater by rejecting the admirable Dave Jones in the hope of getting Scouse Spearing (age issue again perhaps? Certainly not wages as Burnley aren't in a position to pay big) but tbh I wish we'd had Bowyer from the first minute that we kicked off in the Championship.

[USABlue]

GB was appointed full-time manager in May 2013

I can't think of any Rovers manager who has done as well in his first 8 months

and I would tentatively include King Kenny in that (as despite Uncle Jacks money we limped into the playoffs).

GB has transformed a club beset with charlatans into an energetic, hungry squad who are disappointed not to have moved into a playoff position on saturday.

At the same time he's had to move on the majority of the squad and has had pitiful amounts of money to spend on replacements.

I don't really care about formations this and tactics that.

He's brought in good players, who want to play for him rather than money, and he gets my vote.

Gordon Lee, Howard Kendall and Jim Smith all did well if memory serves.

Which players do you object to? I'm not too sure that Spurr has what it takes but he does a job as does Kilgallon, after that Cairney, Evans, Taylor and Marshall all look decent and perform pretty well. Gestede looks to be exactly the presence that we have been needing up top and Mahoney is one for the future hopefully. Judge is an honest grafter and OK ish and I haven't seen enough of Marrow but by popular concensus he seems to be the weakest signing. They will all be on manageable wages I assume and are nearly all on the right side of 25.

Den.... Who would you have liked us to sign who would have been as cheap, as young, as good AND who would eagerly sign for a club in such a godawful mess both on and off the pitch?

He failed when he threw the baby out with the bathwater by rejecting the admirable Dave Jones in the hope of getting Scouse Spearing (age issue again perhaps? Certainly not wages as Burnley aren't in a position to pay big) but tbh I wish we'd had Bowyer from the first minute that we kicked off in the Championship.

Hear hear Gordon.

[den]

Which players do you object to? I'm not too sure that Spurr has what it takes but he does a job as does Kilgallon, after that Cairney, Evans, Taylor and Marshall all look decent and perform pretty well. Gestede looks to be exactly the presence that we have been needing up top and Mahoney is one for the future hopefully. Judge is an honest grafter and OK ish and I haven't seen enough of Marrow but by popular concensus he seems to be the weakest signing. They will all be on manageable wages I assume and are nearly all on the right side of 25.

Den.... Who would you have liked us to sign who would have been as cheap, as young, as good AND who would eagerly sign for a club in such a godawful mess both on and off the pitch?

He failed when he threw the baby out with the bathwater by rejecting the admirable Dave Jones in the hope of getting Scouse Spearing (age issue again perhaps? Certainly not wages as Burnley aren't in a position to pay big) but tbh I wish we'd had Bowyer from the first minute that we kicked off in the Championship.

Hard to follow that post Gordon, but "who do I object to"? Nobody.

Jeez this is hard work, but I'm not criticising his buys. I am simply saying that when people say that Bowyer has had to trim the squad and has had no money to spend, - that's a bit misleading. He's had to sell no one that he wanted, while on the other hand he's had the backing to add loads of players that "he did want".

What else could he have asked for?

I'd better give this dead horse up or I'll have Aggy on my case again:)

[RevidgeBlue]

Hard to follow that post Gordon, but "who do I object to"? Nobody.

Jeez this is hard work, but I'm not criticising his buys. I am simply saying that when people say that Bowyer has had to trim the squad and has had no money to spend, - that's a bit misleading. He's had to sell no one that he wanted, while on the other hand he's had the backing to add loads of players that "he did want".

What else could he have asked for?

I'd better give this dead horse up or I'll have Aggy on my case again:)

Seems to me den, you're criticising GB for his recruitment of mediocre players on the one hand, whilst claiming not to be criticising him on the other. Stop dancing round the issue.

Do you think he's recruited well or not?

[den]

Seems to me den, you're criticising GB for his recruitment of mediocre players on the one hand, whilst claiming not to be criticising him on the other. Stop dancing round the issue.

Well you will have to point that comment out Rev.

[RevidgeBlue]

Well you will have to point that comment out Rev.

You've said it many times over the months den. Nice attempt at avoiding the question though!

Paxman mode on: Do you think he has recruited well or not?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

What bothers me more is how many players at the club have actually improved as players over the last twelve months ? That's what we employ coaches for isn't it ?