[Archived] Bowyer

[imy9]

15 players, plus probably more is a lot in this league. What the previous players were earning is irrelevant. Basically, Bowyer has been allowed to keep all the players that he wanted, while being allowed to sign 15 more. That isn't being hard done by.

Is it?

Or am I losing my grip on life?

No doubt Bowyer has signed 15 players, however shopping at Aldi and being told to make a meal for a Michelin quality restaurant is a difficult thing to do!

The players he inherited almost got us relegated, which of those players was suited to this league? To then get 15 new players (most of which cost us next to nothing in transfers and all of whom are on championship wages) and get us challenging for a top 6 place is a very good job.

Kean blew £8 million on Rhodes, £1.5 on Etuhu a £3 million on Best. You say that a number of players (on high wages) shouldnt affect Bowyer as they are not part of his team anyway. However they do affect us and Bowyer as he is limited to the players he can sign because of them!

[imy9]

You've said it many times over the months den. Nice attempt at avoiding the question though!

Paxman mode on: Do you think he has recruited well or not?

Excellent recruitment:

Spurr, Evans, Cairney, Gestrede, Marshall, all have made us a better team.

[Leonard Venkhater]

Excellent recruitment:

Spurr, Evans, Cairney, Gestrede, Marshall, all have made us a better team.

Not really. Excellent would be what? 65-70% success at least.

If we add Judge, Marrow, Kilgallon and Eastwood total..the score is 5 out of 9.... 56% . In reality,though, given the promotion or bust issue, has he really been backed in the market?

[imy9]

Not really. Excellent would be what? 65-70% success at least.

If we add Judge, Marrow, Kilgallon and Eastwood total..the score is 5 out of 9.... 56% . In reality,though, given the promotion or bust issue, has he really been backed in the market?

Forgot Taylor too, six out of nine? Maybe not excellent, very good perhaps?

[Leonard Venkhater]

Forgot Taylor too, six out of nine? Maybe not excellent, very good perhaps?

Phew. I actually wanted it to be better. Forgot Taylor...so agreed. God I am so sad for doing the calculation. Get A Life Productions or what!

[TBTF]

cy

I think the "debate" stems from where you set the cut off point. Bowyers transfer dealings look sensational compared to what went before - perhaps better to compare a club with a similar "current" transfer budget?

A different way to judge would be to ask how many of his signings have a) lost value and/or are on wages that mean we can't even give them away?

Based on that and the quite evident change in attitudes then i would give him a solid 9/10 for his transfer dealings "in the situation we had" and possibly a 7/10 disregarding those circumstances.

Den - i understand your point but it is hard to consider that he has had "a lot" to spend when 10 signings have probably cost the same as 1 years wages for 2 of our previous signings...

which brings us neatly on to the Clubs recruitment policy in what is widely known to be a promotion or bust season-whether its 100% GB or not is maybe acadmeic.

Why would you go and sadlle your self with 10 journeymen freebies when the wiser things might have been to add 3 of quality that might make the difference.?

Whose decision (presume Bowyer) was it to go and get Judge , taylor, marrow songo' eastwood ? I admit gestede and marshall have been slightly better though we did pay £1m for Marshall and tbh the jury is still out for me despite some improvement.Spurr , solid if unspectacular and.Kane in on loan again, distinctly average

But which of those names would indicate the owners have decided to really back GB to get us up in the sh1t or bust season????

I dont see it i'm afraid. Its neither one thing or the other which pretty well sums up where i think we are at as a club with the moment of reckoning still to come

[RevidgeBlue]

Forgot Taylor too, six out of nine? Maybe not excellent, very good perhaps?

I tend to agree imy I'd say Spurr, Cairney, Evans and Taylor are tremendous acquisitions.

Marshall and Gestede I'm yet to be fully convinced by and if I'm being honest I think the 1m spent on Marshall would have been better spent on Sandomierski, however those 2 may come good ias well.

Even the"poor" signings like Judge Marrow and Songo will have been relatively cheap and we've managed to move them out on loan so I've no issue there either.

So I'd agree with you. Not perfect but very good.

[stanhillrover]

I'm struggling to understand how anyone can consider transfer business under Bowyer to be anything other than excellent so far. The only players from last season worth keeping (Dann, Hanley, Rhodes) are all still at the club. Dann and Rhodes are on Premier League money and Hanley signed a long term deal in the summer. Bowyer hasn't been forced to 'cash in' as of yet. Aside from that none of the dross from last season really deserved to stay (apart from Josh King).

Bowyer has a big enough job on his hands trying to bring some stability and put some foundations in place at Rovers for the long term. He has been doing this. When he has to do this whilst simultaneously shipping out 15-20 players, thrown together by 3/4 different people over the last 3 years, with very few takers for overpaid dross out there, then I think for us to have the squad we have now and be 8th in the League with a very real chance of a play off place is testament to what a good job Bowyer has done so far. Lets remember this is his first season as a manager and has had to basically do it all himself with the owners in India and a threadbare board of directors.

When you look at the squad he inherited, it was ridiculous to say the least. Bowyer has rebuilt the first team step by step. The first area of concern was the midfield, where we now have an abundance of options with several very decent Championship players in there, who are giving it their all for the team. Bowyer has also done well with Rudy Gestede. It was clear that we needed to try and reduce the reliance on Rhodes and come up with a Plan B up front and in recent weeks I think we have seen signs of that working too.

When you look at those he has brought in, there haven't been too many bad 'uns. Tom Cairney and Corry Evans to me are sensational business. To get those two signed up for low fees is fantastic. Despite initial doubts I think people are now starting to see what Ben Marshall and Chris Taylor have to offer now they are settled and fully fit, whilst I don't think many can argue with Tommy Spurr on a free transfer. Matt Kilgallon has had his chances limited but has stood up to the test whenever he's been called upon. I don't think Judge can be labelled a 'bad' signing. He's had his chances limited and was never going to be a world beater but he will always give 100%, in contrast to some of those we've had in recent years. The Marrow signing was strange, but on a free on low wages Bowyer knew he was getting a good lad who he knew would work hard. For me the only real problem has been Yann Songo, the most bizarre and worst of Bowyer's signings. Not quite sure what went on there with that one, as it seems to run contrary to every other signing he has made.

Six months into the rebuilding job and I would say I am very happy with what I have seen so far. It was always going to be a big job to try and sort out the mess that had been made. Thankfully so far Venky's are letting him get on with it and are supporting his decisions. Long may it continue.

[West Yorks Rover]

I'm struggling to understand how anyone can consider transfer business under Bowyer to be anything other than excellent so far. The only players from last season worth keeping (Dann, Hanley, Rhodes) are all still at the club. Dann and Rhodes are on Premier League money and Hanley signed a long term deal in the summer. Bowyer hasn't been forced to 'cash in' as of yet. Aside from that none of the dross from last season really deserved to stay (apart from Josh King).

Bowyer has a big enough job on his hands trying to bring some stability and put some foundations in place at Rovers for the long term. He has been doing this. When he has to do this whilst simultaneously shipping out 15-20 players, thrown together by 3/4 different people over the last 3 years, with very few takers for overpaid dross out there, then I think for us to have the squad we have now and be 8th in the League with a very real chance of a play off place is testament to what a good job Bowyer has done so far. Lets remember this is his first season as a manager and has had to basically do it all himself with the owners in India and a threadbare board of directors.

When you look at the squad he inherited, it was ridiculous to say the least. Bowyer has rebuilt the first team step by step. The first area of concern was the midfield, where we now have an abundance of options with several very decent Championship players in there, who are giving it their all for the team. Bowyer has also done well with Rudy Gestede. It was clear that we needed to try and reduce the reliance on Rhodes and come up with a Plan B up front and in recent weeks I think we have seen signs of that working too.

When you look at those he has brought in, there haven't been too many bad 'uns. Tom Cairney and Corry Evans to me are sensational business. To get those two signed up for low fees is fantastic. Despite initial doubts I think people are now starting to see what Ben Marshall and Chris Taylor have to offer now they are settled and fully fit, whilst I don't think many can argue with Tommy Spurr on a free transfer. Matt Kilgallon has had his chances limited but has stood up to the test whenever he's been called upon. I don't think Judge can be labelled a 'bad' signing. He's had his chances limited and was never going to be a world beater but he will always give 100%, in contrast to some of those we've had in recent years. The Marrow signing was strange, but on a free on low wages Bowyer knew he was getting a good lad who he knew would work hard. For me the only real problem has been Yann Songo, the most bizarre and worst of Bowyer's signings. Not quite sure what went on there with that one, as it seems to run contrary to every other signing he has made.

Six months into the rebuilding job and I would say I am very happy with what I have seen so far. It was always going to be a big job to try and sort out the mess that had been made. Thankfully so far Venky's are letting him get on with it and are supporting his decisions. Long may it continue.

I think most of us think he has done a pretty decent job, given his lack of experience and the situation with the owners/directors etc.,

However, I just wish he would be a bit less negative with his team selections and tactics.

2 dm's should very rarely be required IMO.

[stanhillrover]

I can understand people not being comfortable with the continued selection of Williamson and Lowe together. I expect this will change as soon as Evans has regained full fitness (which surely cannot be far away). I would expect Williamson then to drop to the bench. If this happens then if Evans gets back to the level he was at things could improve drastically.

I think it is worth noting though that these 'negative' tactics which Bowyer has deployed have made us much more difficult to beat than we were last season, when we were pushovers. I read today that we have the third best home defence in the league after QPR and Burnley, and have only dropped 3 points from winning positions this season. These are the type of stats that whilst might not appeal to some, do show that Bowyer is making us a difficult to beat side that gives little away. Being resolute at home and being able to hold on to leads are essential if you want to be successful in this division.

[RevidgeBlue]

which brings us neatly on to the Clubs recruitment policy in what is widely known to be a promotion or bust season-whether its 100% GB or not is maybe acadmeic.

Why would you go and sadlle your self with 10 journeymen freebies when the wiser things might have been to add 3 of quality that might make the difference.?

Whose decision (presume Bowyer) was it to go and get Judge , taylor, marrow songo' eastwood ? I admit gestede and marshall have been slightly better though we did pay £1m for Marshall and tbh the jury is still out for me despite some improvement.Spurr , solid if unspectacular and.Kane in on loan again, distinctly average

But which of those names would indicate the owners have decided to really back GB to get us up in the sh1t or bust season????

I dont see it i'm afraid. Its neither one thing or the other which pretty well sums up where i think we are at as a club with the moment of reckoning still to come

Even if the owners had another 20m spare to lob at the team in the hope of securing promotion this May, do you honestly think it would be a viable strategy to do so? If FFP came in the fines would be so big as to wipe our most of our TV money.

[West Yorks Rover]

Even if the owners had another 20m spare to lob at the team in the hope of securing promotion this May, do you honestly think it would be a viable strategy to do so? If FFP came in the fines would be so big as to wipe our most of our TV money.

I would imagine most of the clubs not expecting promotion will be hoping QPR and Rovers do get promoted, they will have

a nice share-out of the fines, that will be in the tens of millions, wonder how Leicester are doing FFP wise.

Do you know if that goes to the whole FL or just the Championship clubs ?

[Rover_Shaun]

I think it is worth noting though that these 'negative' tactics which Bowyer has deployed have made us much more difficult to beat than we were last season, when we were pushovers.

Sorry for my first post to be a bit negative but this mythical world needs countering as statistically the improvement is negligible.

It points more towards the whole league getting worse and not Rovers getting better (results wise) as we are now 4 points off the play offs where last season we were 9 points off and there's only a 1 point difference in our results

Last Season

Pos 12th P26 W9 D9 L8 F36 A34 PTS36

Now

Pos 8th P26 W10 D7 L9 F32 A32 PTS37

Obviously Michael Appleton isn't on the horizon but we have not improved where it really matters

[Blue blood]

That's exactly what I'm trying to say.

I know. Frustrating when it all has to be excellent or dire.

And even how good decent is really depends on the reality of our situation - is it promotion or bust, or do we have time.

[Jimmy612]

I tend to agree imy I'd say Spurr, Cairney, Evans and Taylor are tremendous acquisitions.

Marshall and Gestede I'm yet to be fully convinced by and if I'm being honest I think the 1m spent on Marshall would have been better spent on Sandomierski, however those 2 may come good ias well.

Even the"poor" signings like Judge Marrow and Songo will have been relatively cheap and we've managed to move them out on loan so I've no issue there either.

So I'd agree with you. Not perfect but very good.

I like Marshall. He's decent going forward i.e. can beat a man get a cross in. Lets not forget that in the last few home games he's assisted for Rhodes v Birmingham, put a few on a plate for numerous players (remember Cairney miss v Doncaster), and last week scored with a very nice finish.

Also does his bit defensively too.

It might take him time as I would suggest he is a real confidence player, but I certainly think £1m for him could be a good bit of business from what I've seen.

Also: would you have spent £1m on Sandom? I thought he did okay but I'm not sure I would have committed a million of a very tight budget on him. Interesting to see if we can get a keeper in - we can't rely on Robinson to stay fit and the other two are literally a goal most games.

[vintageadidas]

The simple fact of the matter is THIS squad (good first 11 and strength in depth) with a goal scorer like Jordan Rhodes in the team should be top 4 all day long. In my opinion the manager is underachieving and if we don't challenge this season the squad will split up and another rebuild is on the cards.

[FGS5635]

The simple fact of the matter is THIS squad (good first 11 and strength in depth) with a goal scorer like Jordan Rhodes in the team should be top 4 all day long. In my opinion the manager is underachieving and if we don't challenge this season the squad will split up and another rebuild is on the cards.

Just out of curiosity, which 3 teams have better than us if we are only a top 4 squad

[Mike E]

Just out of curiosity, which 3 teams have better than us if we are only a top 4 squad

QPR, Forest, Leicester, Boro and Derby are all better teams imo.

[tomphil]

QPR, Forest, Leicester, Boro and Derby are all better teams imo.

I don't believe for one min that Boro and Derby have a better first 11 available when all fit than us, no way.

[K-Hod]

QPR and Leicester have a better starting XI for a start, and clearly anyone above us in the league! We never play our best XI anyway so it's all relative.

[Earlydoors]

The simple fact of the matter is THIS squad (good first 11 and strength in depth) with a goal scorer like Jordan Rhodes in the team should be top 4 all day long. In my opinion the manager is underachieving and if we don't challenge this season the squad will split up and another rebuild is on the cards.

Ha

Teams that were better than us at the start of the season

Leicester

QPR

Forest

Reading

Brighton

Wigan

Leeds

Watford

Bolton

?Charlton?

The direction of travel is one way and its the right way

Keep the Faith

[OJRovers]

I think the quality of the squad is good enough to be challenging at the top. Unlike the Premier League, there's probably 10/12 teams who could say the same thing - just look at Burnley. I would have prefered an experienced manager (eg Hull's success with Bruce last year), but I think Bowyer is the best we could've hoped for in the lottery that is the Venkys recruitment process.

[ABBEY]

QPR, Forest, Leicester, Boro and Derby are all better teams imo.

er the table says quite a few more.

[den]

You've said it many times over the months den. Nice attempt at avoiding the question though!

Paxman mode on: Do you think he has recruited well or not?

You won't divert my point Rev. The average wage for a Championship player is probably around the £8000/ week mark. 15 players so far, with more to come, at that money comes in at around £6.25m per year in wages alone. Add the contract length, plus the transfer fees paid out and that amounts to a huge backing from the owners. He's had that kind of investment available, to build on top of keeping every player that he wanted to.

I'll ask you again, how much more financial backing could he want, and who was the last manager, apart from Dalglish, who's been given that kind of backing?

Bowyer has done OK for me, not great, but OK. That is assuming, and here's the rub, that it isn't sh1t or bust this season. As for the transfer strategy in bringing in all these players, - well it beats me. Maybe you could explain what that is, when you've told me how much more investment Bowyer could have wanted?

[Blue blood]

You won't divert my point Rev. The average wage for a Championship player is probably around the £8000/ week mark. 15 players so far, with more to come, at that money comes in at around £6.25m per year in wages alone. Add the contract length, plus the transfer fees paid out and that amounts to a huge backing from the owners. He's had that kind of investment available, to build on top of keeping every player that he wanted to.

I'll ask you again, how much more financial backing could he want, and who was the last manager, apart from Dalglish, who's been given that kind of backing?

Bowyer has done OK for me, not great, but OK. That is assuming, and here's the rub, that it isn't sh1t or bust this season. As for the transfer strategy in bringing in all these players, - well it beats me. Maybe you could explain what that is, when you've told me how much more investment Bowyer could have wanted?

Yes especially compared to Sam's -£15 million net spend or whatever daft figure it was, or Hughes relatively having little money to spend - not even £5 million for Diarra (I think) when we had premier league security and all it's revenues...

I wonder how many fans would say Bowyer is doing a good enough job IF we knew for certain that it's not promotion or bust? Anyone want to wager on current form it wouldn't be bust?

Equally, if we knew for certain that we had a couple of season's grace, I'm sure everyone would be more than happy to let Bowyer have the chance to build on his promise and learn from his mistakes.

Of course, if we had sensible owners - if wishes were fishes - it'd be another story as people would have confidence that we could recruit/select a better manager should the situation arise.