[Archived] Bowyer

[Rover_Shaun]

look at the state of us last season compared to now!

Last Season

Pos 14th P27 W9 D9 L9 F37 A36 PTS36

Now

Pos 9th P27 W10 D8 L9 F33 A33 PTS38

Considering at this juncture we were just starting with manager number 5 (Kean, Black, Berg, Bowyer, Appleton) 'stability' has not markedly improved the thing that matters...........results.

Bowyer is lucky that the whole league has seen a significant drop in quality from this time last season

And to be fair to Waggy he only said

"If our crazy owners really want the club to succeed ,they going to have to remove Gary Bowyer from his present job..."

Can it be proven that the first part of his scenario is true? The last 3 years points to the contrary

I've read it here before where someone said "not being Kean/Berg/Appleton" can only take you so far

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

My problem is that for a club the size of Rovers by far the best chance of getting promoted is exploiting the parachute payment money within the first few seasons of relegation and we're already more than halfway through blowing it. If we stick with Bowyer and it doesn't work then that is literally it, we'll have nothing left that puts us above any other small Championship club. And life for a small Championship consists of season after season after season in mid-table/bottom half, punctuated by a once every decade or so shot at promotion, which if it comes off will just result in a single season in the PL. Thats whats at stake here, is Bowyer really the best we can possibly go with as our very last shot at avoiding that future?

[Neal]

is Bowyer really the best we can possibly go with as our very last shot at avoiding that future?

Evidently so.

Good post by the way.

[roversfan99]

Why do people keep saying that Bowyer has done brilliantly to cut the wage bill?

It isn't his role to offer players out to other teams and negotiate deals with other clubs regarding wages paid etc, so he doesn't deserve the credit for that.

[Rover_Shaun]

Scenario: Who's to say Bowyer would not have kept some of the outgoing players if it was up to him??

[Parsonblue]

Are any of them any good though ?

Personally, I think they are all pretty good.

[Guest Norbert]

Why do people keep saying that Bowyer has done brilliantly to cut the wage bill?

It isn't his role to offer players out to other teams and negotiate deals with other clubs regarding wages paid etc, so he doesn't deserve the credit for that.

Is that Shelfie's job then? He's about the only board member left.

[Bucksrover]

Bowyer gets a lot right. I get really frustrated with the couple of blind-spots he has and how many points I think it has cost us in such a crucial season.

I am still backing bowyer. This young team is now full of his players. If we get evans back or this new fella in and we can get a solid midfield I think it will make the world of difference.

[Guest Norbert]

He has done some things that are good, like brought a sense of calm to matters on the pitch and in the squad. Obviously the finances and the lack of a boardroom are complete madness, and not getting promoted may be frightening but the blame for that lies elsewhere. Tactically he has made some errors that have cost points, but to even get the club turned around to this level is pretty good.

He could improve, but he's turning things around. It is just a shame time is not on his side with regards to matters off the field.

[Neil Weaver]

Bowyer is doing a good job when you think he cut the wage bill this season and we are 3 points of playoffs with 19 games to go. very good chance of getting into that top 6. we need a couple of good players in now in the next week and that could help us make top 6.

Chaddy, it might be better for your long term health if you stop living in La la land now rather than waiting till spring/summer. There's no chance we'll make the play offs, and in some ways I'm grateful for that. If by some miracle we did, it'd be embarrassing we'd get battered and the reaction on here would be apoplectic, and you can double or triple those feelings if we got promoted (and had to endure a whole season of misery). That's not a reaction to today's game and result by the way, that's after seeing over half a season of games.

I don't think the answer is to replace Bowyer, it's just a case of keeping our collective fingers crossed that our beloved owners stick by us for a while longer.

[Bucksrover]

He has done some things that are good, like brought a sense of calm to matters on the pitch and in the squad. Obviously the finances and the lack of a boardroom are complete madness, and not getting promoted may be frightening but the blame for that lies elsewhere. Tactically he has made some errors that have cost points, but to even get the club turned around to this level is pretty good. He could improve, but he's turning things around. It is just a shame time is not on his side with regards to matters off the field.

Agree with this. I rant about the tactical errors, but the frustration comes from us being almost there thanks to bowyer getting a lot of other stuff right.

Gestede and rhodes are starting to gel. He brought in marshall, taylor, evans and cairney who would make a good championship midfield if all fit at the same time and they are improving.

He sold the good ollsson which I doubted, but brought in spurr for nothing and on less of a wage.

The fans at ewood are backing bowyer, and we should continue to do so.

[thenodrog]

You know what, I would have gladly carried on this debate with you but seeing as you're pig ignorant and have the mentality of a 5 year old I'll let you get back to CBeebies.

Moron.

Never mind the insults, just answer the question cock. How do you know their future plans?

[Neal]

Never mind the insults, just answer the question cock. How do you know their future plans?

How am I meant to know when they blatantly ignore the fans because of their wrong doings?

By the way, you'll know when you've been insulted, cock.

[thenodrog]

How am I meant to know when they blatantly ignore the fans because of their wrong doings?

Cos you said ...."What about not presenting a realistic plan for the future?" You now are admitting that you dont know. That ceratinly does not mean that they dont have plans.

[Stuart]

I can only hope that if/when we get to 50 points that Bowyer takes the shackles off, and that it's this target that has been colouring his decision-making.

It's as though he is using the tried and tested method of the last 12 years of "get safe and then see how high up the table we can finish". Two problems with this: 1) We are not in the PL anymore and it's not a "nuisance" UEFA cup spot or prize-money placings at stake, and 2) promotion chasing teams don't have this mentality, they build a squad and approach matches to win them not avoid defeat.

We have a safety-first, rookie manager who will target avoiding relegation (a good thing) but not push for promotion (the all-important thing), in all likelihood until it's too late - at which point he'll genuinely, and innocently, patronise us and say "we gave it a real go".

There must surely be more chance of promotion this year than next, given where we are in the league, our points total, and the number of games left - particularly given the poor quality in this division. I can hardly imagine our attritional, defend-the-one-nil-from-the-moment-we-score football will a.) sell many season tickets and b.) trouble the relegated teams from this season's PL (with their even bigger parachutes), nor those who just miss out on promotion with us.

I fear though that if we miss out this season, we won't need a better manager than Bowyer, we'll need a miracle.

[JBiz]

I can only hope that if/when we get to 50 points that Bowyer takes the shackles off, and that it's this target that has been colouring his decision-making.

It's as though he is using the tried and tested method of the last 12 years of "get safe and then see how high up the table we can finish". Two problems with this: 1) We are not in the PL anymore and it's not a "nuisance" UEFA cup spot or prize-money placings at stake, and 2) promotion chasing teams don't have this mentality, they build a squad and approach matches to win them not avoid defeat.

We have a safety-first, rookie manager who will target avoiding relegation (a good thing) but not push for promotion (the all-important thing), in all likelihood until it's too late - at which point he'll genuinely, and innocently, patronise us and say "we gave it a real go".

There must surely be more chance of promotion this year than next, given where we are in the league, our points total, and the number of games left - particularly given the poor quality in this division. I can hardly imagine our attritional, defend-the-one-nil-from-the-moment-we-score football will a.) sell many season tickets and b.) trouble the relegated teams from this season's PL (with their even bigger parachutes), nor those who just miss out on promotion with us.

I fear though that if we miss out this season, we won't need a better manager than Bowyer, we'll need a miracle.

This whole scenario is not that of a regular club and it pains me every time you post so eloquently but essentially ignorantly of the hand we have to play.

If we had Williams, I would agree. But we do not. We have complete charlatans who will only replace from within or pay someone with self interest in the deals to give them advice.

Because of that, screaming for a new manager is lunacy. You know what they will do so why advocate it?

GB could be doing a lot better - but in reality he could have done an awful lot worse. Simply halting the downward spiral is something an awful lot of expensive managers would have failed at. (especially under the rao's)

[Neal]

Cos you said ...."What about not presenting a realistic plan for the future?" You now are admitting that you dont know. That ceratinly does not mean that they dont have plans.

How do you know?

[Neal]

I can only hope that if/when we get to 50 points that Bowyer takes the shackles off, and that it's this target that has been colouring his decision-making.

It's as though he is using the tried and tested method of the last 12 years of "get safe and then see how high up the table we can finish". Two problems with this: 1) We are not in the PL anymore and it's not a "nuisance" UEFA cup spot or prize-money placings at stake, and 2) promotion chasing teams don't have this mentality, they build a squad and approach matches to win them not avoid defeat.

We have a safety-first, rookie manager who will target avoiding relegation (a good thing) but not push for promotion (the all-important thing), in all likelihood until it's too late - at which point he'll genuinely, and innocently, patronise us and say "we gave it a real go".

There must surely be more chance of promotion this year than next, given where we are in the league, our points total, and the number of games left - particularly given the poor quality in this division. I can hardly imagine our attritional, defend-the-one-nil-from-the-moment-we-score football will a.) sell many season tickets and b.) trouble the relegated teams from this season's PL (with their even bigger parachutes), nor those who just miss out on promotion with us.

I fear though that if we miss out this season, we won't need a better manager than Bowyer, we'll need a miracle.

Sick of opening every post with this but even though I like Bowyer like many of you do, I fail to see how you could argue with this. If many of you just plain believe that regardless of what happens this year, Bowyer can get us promoted then... That's great. It's good the fans have such faith in the manager but based on what you've seen so far performance wise and given that we're only 2 points better off than last season... I'm not sure if this faith is being a little misplaced.

[JBiz]

Sick of opening every post with this but even though I like Bowyer like many of you do, I fail to see how you could argue with this. If many of you just plain believe that regardless of what happens this year, Bowyer can get us promoted then... That's great. It's good the fans have such faith in the manager but based on what you've seen so far performance wise and given that we're only 2 points better off than last season... I'm not sure if this faith is being a little misplaced.

Will it ever enter your mind that; Others can see that leaving the decision to hire a new manager to the Rao's is proven to be madness?

Your faith is misplaced if you think Gary will be replaced by someone of quality.

[Parsonblue]

Sick of opening every post with this but even though I like Bowyer like many of you do, I fail to see how you could argue with this. If many of you just plain believe that regardless of what happens this year, Bowyer can get us promoted then... That's great. It's good the fans have such faith in the manager but based on what you've seen so far performance wise and given that we're only 2 points better off than last season... I'm not sure if this faith is being a little misplaced.

You assume that everyone thinks that promotion this season or next is viable. Personally, I think whoever is manager is going to take more than a season or two to get us back into contention. Personally, I believe that building a long term future for the club around younger players is the only way forward in view of the financial problems that we are engulfed in. Therefore I believe that Bowyer and his coaching staff are the right people to have in place to carry out this policy. It may well be that the Premier League is something that we cannot return to in the immediate future. Let's not forget that we had 25 years outside of the top flight between 1966 and 1992 so it's not a new experience. Sadly, the days of Jack Walker and the Walker Trust are long gone and it's now about rebuilding the club in a different way. Buying younger players and trying to improve them with a couple of more experienced players involved to help them along is likely to be the way forward.

[Stuart]

This whole scenario is not that of a regular club and it pains me every time you post so eloquently but essentially ignorantly of the hand we have to play.

If we had Williams, I would agree. But we do not. We have complete charlatans who will only replace from within or pay someone with self interest in the deals to give them advice.

Because of that, screaming for a new manager is lunacy. You know what they will do so why advocate it?

GB could be doing a lot better - but in reality he could have done an awful lot worse. Simply halting the downward spiral is something an awful lot of expensive managers would have failed at. (especially under the rao's)

I'm not ignorant of the hand we have to play, not at all. We are in the last chance saloon down to our last few chips and we are potentially close to playing our final hand. We have a reasonable set of cards yet the card-player keeps throwing his hand in when we have the chance to win a game. That's the frustrating thing about Bowyer.

I'm not screaming for him to be replaced, although I may be stating it in a firm voice at some stage - likely early next season, I am screaming for him to stop being so flipping negative. Yesterday is not the first time, that a decent team (I use the term advisedly) has come to Ewood and, as the game has panned out, are there to be beaten, yet Bowyer plays such negative football we end up lucky to escape with a draw, let alone a 1-0 win (a lead staunchly defended from some time in the first half.

Regularly Bowyer's after match comments talk about how good the opposition are [on paper] but the other manager has just escaped from Ewood with a point or better.

From what I have seen this season we have the tools to beat teams yet we don't use them. It could be the season we end up having had too many draws.

Of course, if Venkys are continuing to fund our poor poker player then this is all moot discussion.

[thenodrog]

How do you know?

Don't be obtuse. Effectively you chucked your own random and poorly thought out opinion in and then attempted to pass it off as the truth.

[Neal]

You assume that everyone thinks that promotion this season or next is viable. Personally, I think whoever is manager is going to take more than a season or two to get us back into contention. Personally, I believe that building a long term future for the club around younger players is the only way forward in view of the financial problems that we are engulfed in. Therefore I believe that Bowyer and his coaching staff are the right people to have in place to carry out this policy. It may well be that the Premier League is something that we cannot return to in the immediate future. Let's not forget that we had 25 years outside of the top flight between 1966 and 1992 so it's not a new experience. Sadly, the days of Jack Walker and the Walker Trust are long gone and it's now about rebuilding the club in a different way. Buying younger players and trying to improve them with a couple of more experienced players involved to help them along is likely to be the way forward.

As said in a reply to Chaddy, maybe in this thread I'm not sure but... I've acknowledged our owners complete lack of competence in appointing a manager with experience, I've also categorically stated that Bowyer shouldn't be let go without the right sort of replacement but I'm not expecting you to go back through all my previous posts to find that out. I totally agree 100% that building the club for the long term future is the way forward by investing in younger cheaper players but surely that should be the plan for every club as standard? What I'm finding frustrating is that I believe that right now, with this group of players... We are good enough to push promotion & that Gary's tactical nous is holding us back from doing so. Again, that's just my own opinion.

Will it ever enter your mind that; Others can see that leaving the decision to hire a new manager to the Rao's is proven to be madness?

Your faith is misplaced if you think Gary will be replaced by someone of quality.

Like I've said to Parson, I've stated on many occasion that you can't trust our owners to make a decent appointment, of course I know that. My posts are based on frustration that I'm losing faith in Bowyers tactical ability to take us forward. I love everything else that has happened, replacing crap with good cheaper players like Cainey, he's done some great business. My faith isn't placed in the owners to provide us with a seasoned manager but I do have faith in the fact that IF we did have a seasoned manager then this team would currently be comfortably sitting in a play off place.

Don't be obtuse. Effectively you chucked your own random and poorly thought out opinion in and then attempted to pass it off as the truth.

What exactly did I try to pass of as truth?

[JBiz]

You only have to look at the mess he inherited last March/April to see the advancement.

We would have lost that game in the dying stages yesterday. GB is cautious, but he has to be with the hand he has Stuart. You cannot say that Henley didn't need that help yesterday, hence the Kane and Williamson instead of Mahoney substitution.

In time I doubt Williamson will be near the squad - he was a sub when Evans, Cairney and Lowe played earlier in the season and we looked good - especially before Hanleys sending off at wigan. Probing and solid at the same time.

There is a lot more to football than just having/not having tactical nous. The next two games and the last week of the transfer window are going to shape what happens for the rest of the season and I think if Gary can get a replacement in the same ilk of Marshall (no mean feat) and another left sided player - we may just suprise a few. I honestly think losing Marshall is a bitter blow - don't underestimate his worth to both defensive and attacking.

I also think the left foot is something we are desperately lacking and I think it plays a part in putting Cairney on the right. For GB's idea of tactics, we desperatley need someone who can cut inside on that right flank. Hence freeing Cairney up for a central role and making our flanks more dynamic.

[Neal]

You only have to look at the mess he inherited last March/April to see the advancement.

We would have lost that game in the dying stages yesterday. GB is cautious, but he has to be with the hand he has Stuart. You cannot say that Henley didn't need that help yesterday, hence the Kane and Williamson instead of Mahoney substitution.

In time I doubt Williamson will be near the squad - he was a sub when Evans, Cairney and Lowe played earlier in the season and we looked good - especially before Hanleys sending off at wigan. Probing and solid at the same time.

There is a lot more to football than just having/not having tactical nous. The next two games and the last week of the transfer window are going to shape what happens for the rest of the season and I think if Gary can get a replacement in the same ilk of Marshall (no mean feat) and another left sided player - we may just suprise a few. I honestly think losing Marshall is a bitter blow - don't underestimate his worth to both defensive and attacking.

I also think the left foot is something we are desperately lacking and I think it plays a part in putting Cairney on the right. For GB's idea of tactics, we desperatley need someone who can cut inside on that right flank. Hence freeing Cairney up for a central role and making our flanks more dynamic.

I agree with most of that to be fair, although there is little advancement points tally wise but fair enough in the case of whats been brought in and shipped out etc...

With regards to "we would of lost the game in the dying stages etc..." I'm not so sure. There were around 8 or 9 games where we threw away 3 points in the last 10 minutes and ended up with draws last season.