[Archived] Bowyer

[Leonard Venkhater]

Their name over the door at the time, allegedly

I hope more people who look back now can see it was planned well in advance, with the planting of coco by he who cannot be named and the subsequent obscene transfer charges for mainly donkeys.

You cannot turn the clock back but if the Raos had taken over and done nothing, my money says we would be mid table in the PL, people moaning about the negative football, rumours about transfer kickbacks to offsprings, 20k + attendances and with the additional TV money very probaly NO DEBT.

I imagine if they had merely invested the amount of money they have had to pour in now!

[Neal]

I would say he means stick with the manager and team who have improved over the past 12 months, that have us 4 points from a promotion playoff place with 48 points to play for.

You obviously didn't read the post. This has absolutely no relevance to what's being discussed.

Neal

Sticking with a cautious approach when we go one goal up.

By withdrawing we have conceded the initiative and lost the lead we had on numerous occasions.

To my mind playing both Lowe and Williamson together is unambitious as is playing one up front at home.

Yeah i get what you mean, but as Bowyer does seem to be "sticking" I'm just at a loss at what he's sticking with... A mid table finish? If so I'd prefer he come out and say so.

[DE.]

Yes, coming out and declaring we're aiming for mid table would be a brilliant idea. Do you read what you type before you post?

[Leonard Venkhater]

Yes, coming out and declaring we're aiming for mid table would be a brilliant idea. Do you read what you type before you post?

Literally, maybe. But his point is about a kind of pretence .It just doesn't look like we are going for it on the pitch. We sure as hell aren't going for it off the pitch..

[Roverthechimp]

So you think that despite the significant drop in parachute payments, Venkys have decided to forfeit our reasonable decent position this season and patiently keep their powder dry (and their funding lines flush) to mount a promotion challenge next year?

There is no sane explanation for ANYTHING Venkys have done since they've been here. The idea that they are planning to continue to fund our additional losses through next season makes no sense. Not when the tactics of the manager are turning their golden goose in a duck egg.

However, assuming that it's only this season they have gone from front-of-house to hotel manager...

Any sane business people having taken on such an albatross would be trying to turn it into a going concern in order to get rid. If they can't do that they cut their losses.

If they do actually think the best business plan is to continue to 'invest' then this must result in promotion. Every season we miss out, that possibility becomes second to relegation. How long will they take to realise that, without ambition and money (including laughing at fines like I expect QPR will), we are simply a mid-table second tier club? Perhaps they are looking over with naive admiration at what is being 'achieved' along the M65. Bumley's luck has done us no favours this season.

As for teams coming down, I think we will start to see an annual rotation of about 25 teams as FFP bites.

No i don't think they have decided to "forfeit our decent position" - merely that they have accepted the reality of the situation where it is unlikely we will go up right now but if Bowyer cuts the wage bill significantly then they will maintain their support for at least 1 more season.

The tactics of the manager are restoring the possibility of this being a golden goose - something it has never been for the Venkys themselves but keep trotting the cliches and you might get one right in the end.

Sane business people will analyse the entire situation - both from a capital investment and from an operational viewpoint. Taking the latter - can we cut costs but maintain the product (or at least the illusion of the product). If we take the starting point as the end of last season then the process is going quite well as the current squad is competitive in the championship at a fraction of the cost (you and i may differ in our opinions on the manager but we both seem to be suggesting that this squad can/should be further up the table). Looking at it as a "sane" business person from a capital perspective - an exit now will write off approximately 60 - 70 million from Venkys books. The yearly losses can be used to reduce tax on other businesses and projected losses for the current financial year are significantly lower than last year. So do you write off 70 million and recreate the severe negative press for your entire "empire" or do you accept that the only possibility of minimising the capital losses is building long term for a sustainable promotion push and taking the hit of a few million in annual losses that can be utilised for corporate tax purposes.

As you say - make it a going concern :-)

Literally, maybe. But his point is about a kind of pretence .It just doesn't look like we are going for it on the pitch. We sure as hell aren't going for it off the pitch..

Having watched the abhorration that was last season then i would have to disagree - we seem to be going for it on the pitch but we aren't quite succeeding. Our conversion (chance - goals) ratio is something like 15 - 1 - improve that and suddenly we are 2 or 3 up at half time instead of just 1.

[K-Hod]

Aren't we subject to a transfer embargo if we don't go up this year? Plus, parachute payments halve, and debts mount.

If that is the case, it beggars belief that we aren't a bit more gung ho in our play....

[Leonard Venkhater]

No i don't think they have decided to "forfeit our decent position" - merely that they have accepted the reality of the situation where it is unlikely we will go up right now but if Bowyer cuts the wage bill significantly then they will maintain their support for at least 1 more season.

The tactics of the manager are restoring the possibility of this being a golden goose - something it has never been for the Venkys themselves but keep trotting the cliches and you might get one right in the end.

Sane business people will analyse the entire situation - both from a capital investment and from an operational viewpoint. Taking the latter - can we cut costs but maintain the product (or at least the illusion of the product). If we take the starting point as the end of last season then the process is going quite well as the current squad is competitive in the championship at a fraction of the cost (you and i may differ in our opinions on the manager but we both seem to be suggesting that this squad can/should be further up the table). Looking at it as a "sane" business person from a capital perspective - an exit now will write off approximately 60 - 70 million from Venkys books. The yearly losses can be used to reduce tax on other businesses and projected losses for the current financial year are significantly lower than last year. So do you write off 70 million and recreate the severe negative press for your entire "empire" or do you accept that the only possibility of minimising the capital losses is building long term for a sustainable promotion push and taking the hit of a few million in annual losses that can be utilised for corporate tax purposes.

As you say - make it a going concern :-)

Having watched the abhorration that was last season then i would have to disagree - we seem to be going for it on the pitch but we aren't quite succeeding. Our conversion (chance - goals) ratio is something like 15 - 1 - improve that and suddenly we are 2 or 3 up at half time instead of just 1.

Well you are certainly right about our ratio of chances to goals. I have to accept that these s****t games would have seen us play very differently had early chances not gone begging. Sooo frustrating

[Roverthechimp]

Aren't we subject to a transfer embargo if we don't go up this year? Plus, parachute payments halve, and debts mount.

If that is the case, it beggars belief that we aren't a bit more gung ho in our play....

As mentioned earlier - the transfer embargo kicks in around january which won't affect us if we have already done our shopping in the summer and september windows.

Parachute payments halve but we will have reduced our outgoings by more than the reduction if we can permeanantly dispose of the deadwood/overpaid/stooges...

Edit: not suggesting we will make a profit or even break even - merely that Dann, Best, Etuhu and Campbells wages equate to the reduction in parachute payment.

[Stuart]

No i don't think they have decided to "forfeit our decent position" - merely that they have accepted the reality of the situation where it is unlikely we will go up right now but if Bowyer cuts the wage bill significantly then they will maintain their support for at least 1 more season.

The tactics of the manager are restoring the possibility of this being a golden goose - something it has never been for the Venkys themselves but keep trotting the cliches and you might get one right in the end.

Sane business people will analyse the entire situation - both from a capital investment and from an operational viewpoint. Taking the latter - can we cut costs but maintain the product (or at least the illusion of the product). If we take the starting point as the end of last season then the process is going quite well as the current squad is competitive in the championship at a fraction of the cost (you and i may differ in our opinions on the manager but we both seem to be suggesting that this squad can/should be further up the table). Looking at it as a "sane" business person from a capital perspective - an exit now will write off approximately 60 - 70 million from Venkys books. The yearly losses can be used to reduce tax on other businesses and projected losses for the current financial year are significantly lower than last year. So do you write off 70 million and recreate the severe negative press for your entire "empire" or do you accept that the only possibility of minimising the capital losses is building long term for a sustainable promotion push and taking the hit of a few million in annual losses that can be utilised for corporate tax purposes.

As you say - make it a going concern :-)

Good post. Our opinions on matters where Venkys ambitions/motives differ greatly but it's still a good post.

[Roverthechimp]

Good post. Our opinions on matters where Venkys ambitions/motives differ greatly but it's still a good post.

Thank you

[TBTF]

Good post. Our opinions on matters where Venkys ambitions/motives differ greatly but it's still a good post.

But our income dictates that our playing budget needs to be around £8million a year under FFP -and anybody with half a brain.

Thers no way in a million years our current playing squad will come in at much under £20million a year and so therfore the cull has got some way to go yet.Which is why i don't get why we are sending people out on loand (and still paying their wages) yet bringing more in on a permanent basis.As for taking JR up to £40k a week-why and under what logic when we need to cut costs?

The whole thing looks a mystery as we havent gone for broke by trying to get up this year we have sort of got stuck in a half way house. I just dont see how we will be allowed to have a big spend next summer when we know what rules are coming in.

Alot still for Venkys to commit to here yet

[roversfan99]

I don't understand why Bowyer doesn't ask our young team to use the energy it has by pressing further up the pitch instead of backing off and retreating.

[Mani]

I don't understand why Bowyer doesn't ask our young team to use the energy it has by pressing further up the pitch instead of backing off and retreating.

Great post...couldn't agree more. I think Bowyer is doing a great job...just wish he'd back is to push on and dismantle teams at time. Especially at home. Pressing high up the pitch is the only way to achieve this as when you win the ball you're already in their final third with them on the back foot.

[DE.]

I don't understand why Bowyer doesn't ask our young team to use the energy it has by pressing further up the pitch instead of backing off and retreating.

Probably because they lack the quality to keep the ball and will be punished when they inevitably give it away and get stung on the counter attack.

[Mike E]

Probably because they lack the quality to keep the ball and will be punished when they inevitably give it away and get stung on the counter attack.

Better that than losing it further back as we do and getting punished anyway

[dingles staying down 4ever]

I don't understand why Bowyer doesn't ask our young team to use the energy it has by pressing further up the pitch instead of backing off and retreating.

What energy as from what I've seen several players can't last 90 minutes.

[DE.]

Better that than losing it further back as we do and getting punished anyway

I imagine we'd concede far more if we took the gung ho approach some on here seem to advocate.

[darrenrover]

I imagine we'd concede far more if we took the gung ho approach some on here seem to advocate.

Bit of a difference DE between where we have been and being gung-ho as you say.

I don't think anyone would advocate that approach but would prefer us to press higher up the pitch and show some attacking conviction as opposed to the ultra negative tactics we're having to endure, particularly at home.

[DE.]

Bit of a difference DE between where we have been and being gung-ho as you say.

I don't think anyone would advocate that approach but would prefer us to press higher up the pitch and show some attacking conviction as opposed to the ultra negative tactics we're having to endure, particularly at home.

I've definitely seen some posts advocating a gung ho approach, because "we have nothing to lose".

There have definitely been times where we have been too negative this season, particularly at home. It needs to be addressed, but I think given time Bowyer will address that. We're not there yet in terms of playing style, and I still think there are a fair few players in the team Bowyer doesn't particularly trust - particularly in the more defensive areas. I believe that's why we quite often see Lowe/Williamson paired up - as soul destroying as it is to see their names together on the team sheet.

I suppose my main concern is that Bowyer is unlikely to be given the funds necessary to purchase players that he can trust to do the job properly. He'll need to unearth a few more good players like Cairney, Evans (who will hopefully make a big impact upon returning), Spurr and Gestede, whilst being given a fairly low budget to do so. I still think we need at least one more CB, DR, DM, MR/ML and probably one more striker to seriously challenge for the playoff positions. We could probably get away with filling 2 or 3 of those positions and still making a push, but right now I wouldn't trust the team to press particularly high either.

[rhodie]

http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/blackburn-rovers/news/bowyer-to-serve-touchline-ban_137522.html

Bowyer to serve one match ban.

[yoda]

http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/blackburn-rovers/news/bowyer-to-serve-touchline-ban_137522.html

Bowyer to serve one match ban.

Now that should be a very interesting game re tactics

[Al]

No i don't think they have decided to "forfeit our decent position" - merely that they have accepted the reality of the situation where it is unlikely we will go up right now but if Bowyer cuts the wage bill significantly then they will maintain their support for at least 1 more season.

The tactics of the manager are restoring the possibility of this being a golden goose - something it has never been for the Venkys themselves but keep trotting the cliches and you might get one right in the end.

Sane business people will analyse the entire situation - both from a capital investment and from an operational viewpoint. Taking the latter - can we cut costs but maintain the product (or at least the illusion of the product). If we take the starting point as the end of last season then the process is going quite well as the current squad is competitive in the championship at a fraction of the cost (you and i may differ in our opinions on the manager but we both seem to be suggesting that this squad can/should be further up the table). Looking at it as a "sane" business person from a capital perspective - an exit now will write off approximately 60 - 70 million from Venkys books. The yearly losses can be used to reduce tax on other businesses and projected losses for the current financial year are significantly lower than last year. So do you write off 70 million and recreate the severe negative press for your entire "empire" or do you accept that the only possibility of minimising the capital losses is building long term for a sustainable promotion push and taking the hit of a few million in annual losses that can be utilised for corporate tax purposes.

As you say - make it a going concern :-)

The first sensible summary of the financial situation I have seen. The vast majority of the debt is owed to the Raos. If they walk away now they write off the lot but whilst we are still a subsidiary those losses are off settable against group profits. They have been stupid to let the situation get to where it is but we are where we are. If on the other hand they/we can get to a situation where we are not losing so much money the club becomes a saleable asset and in the meantime they can utilise the tax losses. I don't know Indian tax laws but it seems sensible to me. Unless I am completely barking up the wrong tree

[Al]

http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/blackburn-rovers/news/bowyer-to-serve-touchline-ban_137522.html

Bowyer to serve one match ban.

Makes little difference. He has already taken to watching from the stands as he gets a better view of the game.

[Lancs Rover]

Dilbert might say...

[blondie]

Interesting to listen to Mathew Upsons comments on how a team, in time, takes on and plays in the manner of the managers personality. Whilst Bowyer has done a great job of sorting out behind the scenes,I find that watching our side does reflect his personality,we lack a spirit to produce exceptional performances,Just above average is our position and maybe the status of our manager.