[Archived] Rovers vs Watford - Tuesday 1 October - Kick-off 19:45

[den]

Different time, different setup, different team. Shearer was a completely different player to Jordan, had far more strengths. Comparing them isn't useful.

Look DE, I put up many of my thoughts on the game and the only thing you do is react to a suggestion that maybe if a striker isn't't getting any joy he should look to do something different. Moving around, losing markers, doesn't inhibit anyone's scoring opportunities, it enhances them. Maybe if Messi and Ronaldo stood still a bit more, they would score more goals?

I ain't getting dragged into an anti Rhodes argument. It was just an observation, during the first half last night.

[DE.]

Look DE, I put up many of my thoughts on the game and the only thing you do is react to a suggestion that maybe if a striker isn't't getting any joy he should look to do something different. Moving around, losing markers, doesn't inhibit anyone's scoring opportunities, it enhances them. Maybe if Messi and Ronaldo stood still a bit more, they would score more goals?

I ain't getting dragged into an anti Rhodes argument. It was just an observation, during the first half last night.

I agreed with the rest of your post so why would I react to any other parts?

I just find it amusing that you constantly snipe at the one player in our team who scores goals and wins us matches. Perhaps he could do more, but it's equally plausible that in doing so we score far less goals as nobody is available or capable in the box to put the ball away and therefore we draw or lose rather than win.

[roversR4ever]

Well that was a great result. We weren't lucky it was well deserved unlike the beginning of last year.

Firstly credit has to go to Bowyer. We now increasingly look a well organised, balanced and disciplined team. Individual errors that were costing us more than team performance earlier in the season seem to have gone or massively reduced.

No one played badly in my view.

Midfield is now looking like a real strength for us. Evans now looks the player he did last year for Hull, its pretty easy to see why he was popular with their fans.

I have to mention Lowe. I defended him earlier in the season. There is now no doubt he is now settling into a very good cm for us. Has played well both alongside Cairney and now Evans. His passing is now looking a lot more solid, his movement and cover was excellent. Evans and Lowe together really do work well together. It was vital to see they could perform well against a team that can pass and is capable of keeping possession if you let them.

Another possible long term positive I thought was that Marshall probably played the best he has for us so far when he came on. I mentioned in a previous post in the Bowyer thread that at the time he was possibly the weakest signing in that he cost a lot but seemed to be devoid of confidence. Well he looked a lot more confident, he undoubtedly has ability so if Bowyer is helping to get back his confidence then suddenly he could be a real asset. I always rated him as a player but very worried his confidence had been striped from him (some players never get it back). So this over a long season could be a real bonus to us as it helps balance out the creativity we lose when we have no Dunn or Rochina.

Cairney carries on doing well, need to get something agreed with Hull to extend his loan or sign him.

King again good, as a team we now seem to be able to get him running into space using his pace. He seems to be having more good games than bad.

Defensively v solid. Actually hope Dann isn't to badly injured or out long as I think he has started to look much more solid and reliable. Kilgallon is decent though.

Up front I thought we were ok with Best and Rhodes. I do think it helps to stop Rhodes being too isolated. I also helps starting with them because we then have the option to change things later especially when teams tire a little. Rhodes could easily have scored more last night.

Wigan away will be interesting. Another win there and we really could put ourselves into a decent position. We would be higher at this point in the season than I would have anticipated, I hoped later in the season we could start to move up the table and sneak into the play offs as our young team grew and developed.

Bowyer has got a good understanding and level of performance into this team pretty quickly in my view. At least we now have hope.

[den]

I just find it amusing that you constantly snipe at the one player in our team who scores goals and wins us matches. Perhaps he could do more, but it's equally plausible that in doing so we score far less goals as nobody is available or capable in the box to put the ball away and therefore we draw or lose rather than win.

It's not sniping, it's an opinion. You're looking for things DE. Trying to argue that when a player is having no impact on a game, he shouldn't try something different is just silly IMO.

[Majiball]

I agreed with the rest of your post so why would I react to any other parts?

I just find it amusing that you constantly snipe at the one player in our team who scores goals and wins us matches. Perhaps he could do more, but it's equally plausible that in doing so we score far less goals as nobody is available or capable in the box to put the ball away and therefore we draw or lose rather than win.

I find it amusing you constantly snipe at one poster who contributes a lot of good and varied points on here. Perhaps he could say less negative about JR, but it's equally plausible that in doing so we'd only see one side of the coin and less debate. Plenty of people obviously feel the same about Rhodes, since he's still here and on the bench for Scotland.

Apologies Den.

[Al]

A Scot to rescue, again!

Good win.

He's no more Scottish than I am. Born in England.

[DE.]

I find it amusing you constantly snipe at one poster who contributes a lot of good and varied points on here. Perhaps he could say less negative about JR, but it's equally plausible that in doing so we'd only see one side of the coin and less debate. Plenty of people obviously feel the same about Rhodes, since he's still here and on the bench for Scotland.

Apologies Den.

I don't snipe at den at all. I enjoy debating with him because he's one of the few on here whose opinions I genuinely have time for.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Up front I thought we were ok with Best and Rhodes. I do think it helps to stop Rhodes being too isolated. I also helps starting with them because we then have the option to change things later especially when teams tire a little. Rhodes could easily have scored more last night.

The option to bring on other players as the opposition tires could be a key option for us as the season goes on - and is one reason why I would persist with Best for a while longer (though I thought he did ok last night). I remember the last time we were in the Championship - we played Hughes for the first 60 to 70 minutes to rough up the opposition defence - and then brought on Bent to terrorise a tiring defence. With DJ, Marshall, Dunn and (eventually Rochina) we have plenty of players who could take advantage against a tiring defence.

[DE.]

It's not sniping, it's an opinion. You're looking for things DE. Trying to argue that when a player is having no impact on a game, he shouldn't try something different is just silly IMO.

That isn't what I'm saying den. Obviously Rhodes should try as best he can to influence the game within the role he's been given - but if Bowyer and the management team are telling him mainly to hang around the area and put away any chances that come to him it would surely be irresponsible for him to start running out to the channels or dropping deep?

If Rhodes did do that we would need to change the way we play entirely because right now our style revolves almost solely around finding him in the box. If he's somewhere else on the pitch then it isn't going to work. Whether we should be playing that way is another debate entirely.

[adsfortheblues]

Very good performance last night I thought. Not to many seem to have mentioned him, but I thought Kean had a very solid game, good on crosses and seemed to command the box a lot more.

[Majiball]

He's no more Scottish than I am. Born in England.

John Barnes was English, Klose, Podolski are German, Rhodes is therefore Scottish as is Tom Cairney.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

John Barnes was English, Klose, Podolski are German, Rhodes is therefore Scottish as is Tom Cairney.

Well I'd disagree with all of that, just because you play for a country at football doesn't mean that's your nationality. Thanks to FIFAs new rules there's guys who can now play for England like Almunia and Arteta who are never English in a million years, I assume that's how Rhodes is eligible for Scotland as well.

[Majiball]

I don't snipe at den at all. I enjoy debating with him because he's one of the few on here whose opinions I genuinely have time for.

Given the term argument and him justifying his point and right to make it, I'm going to assume he doesn't see it in the manner you say it's meant.

Again apologies Den.

As long as Rhodes is in the box for when the ball comes in, then yes he could do more before that point. No-one knows what he's been told to do tactically but we have seen him trying to do more in other games so I'll assume he's not just being told stand in the box.

[DE.]

Given the term argument and him justifying his point and right to make it, I'm going to assume he doesn't see it in the manner you say it's meant.

Again apologies Den.

As long as Rhodes is in the box for when the ball comes in, then yes he could do more before that point. No-one knows what he's been told to do tactically but we have seen him trying to do more in other games so I'll assume he's not just being told stand in the box.

Argument and debate are essentially the same thing, especially on the internet. If den genuinely thinks I'm targeting or being mean towards him by all means he can let me know and I'll play nice. He obviously doesn't have to justify anything to me - I've asked questions regarding his posts, I haven't just come out and said his opinion is nonsense have I?

As I said, if Rhodes is to play in a different way then I'm afraid we need to change the way we set up to get more people in the box when we attack. The current style of play won't cut it if Rhodes isn't in the box to put away our chances because he's run off to one of the wings or dropped deep to pick up a ball and not got back into the area on time.

[RevidgeBlue]

It's not sniping, it's an opinion. You're looking for things DE. Trying to argue that when a player is having no impact on a game, he shouldn't try something different is just silly IMO.

But you are trying to argue Rhodes was having no impact when that was far from the case imo.

He never stopped running last night, never gave the defenders a moment's rest for 90 mins imo and scored the winning goal.

The only thing you could criticise him for if you were being ultra critical is that he wasn't quite as clinical with his chances as normal and maybe should have scored more.

I'm not going to do that, nine in ten now and as far as I'm concerned he continues to prove his critics completely wrong.

[roversR4ever]

With Rhodes his movement should be very much dependent on who he is playing with. When Best is on the pitch I would think Rhodes primary task is to stay in the box and get on the end of the chances. Best is more mobile and seems more capable of playing a physical role. To be honest Rhodes got chances last night and by his standards could easily have had a couple of goals.

I actually think he worked pretty hard in the game.

[Majiball]

Well I'd disagree with all of that, just because you play for a country at football doesn't mean that's your nationality. Thanks to FIFAs new rules there's guys who can now play for England like Almunia and Arteta who are never English in a million years, I assume that's how Rhodes is eligible for Scotland as well.

If i live in a country for X years (it's different for each one) I can accept citizenship and a passport of that country. This makes me part of that country and if I'm good enough to represent them at sports, great. It's hardly a FIFA rule as the whole of the world works like this, so FIFA are really just going with the flow. The nations themselves have chosen to allow this and make it legal,so what's the problem? I take it you don't want Defoe, Barnes, Hargreaves, Le Tissier, Le Saux or Agbonlahor playing for England either? Neither is English by your definition.

Rhodes, Rovers great SCOTTISH hope!!!

[Majiball]

Argument and debate are essentially the same thing, especially on the internet. If den genuinely thinks I'm targeting or being mean towards him by all means he can let me know and I'll play nice. He obviously doesn't have to justify anything to me - I've asked questions regarding his posts, I haven't just come out and said his opinion is nonsense have I?

As I said, if Rhodes is to play in a different way then I'm afraid we need to change the way we set up to get more people in the box when we attack. The current style of play won't cut it if Rhodes isn't in the box to put away our chances because he's run off to one of the wings or dropped deep to pick up a ball and not got back into the area on time.

Do you read peoples reply's? As long as he's in the box for when the final ball comes in, he can contribute more. How do I know this because 1000 & 1 strikers do this these days.

Argument and debate are not the same and never will be. I like the way you say you don't think you're doing it and then say I'll play nice.

[DE.]

By "play nice" I mean I won't bother, as there's no point entering a debate with somebody who can't handle strong opinions. I'm fairly sure den can, but if not all he has to do is ask me to stop debating with him and I'm happy to do so. It's certainly no business of yours either way.

[Amo]

Nitpicking Rhodes' overall game again, after he's won us yet another match, is a very poor do.

[den]

Nitpicking Rhodes' overall game again, after he's won us yet another match, is a very poor do.

I expect nothing less from you Amo. 😀

The day you give us a match report will be the first.

[Amo]

I expect nothing less from you Amo.

The day you give us a match report will be the first.

Bicker, bicker, bicker.

[onlyonetugay]

So pleased that Jason Lowe was awarded the man of the match last night. He's the type of player ever successful team needs. I remember Didier Deschamps who captained the France world cup winning team in 1998. Cantona called him the water carrier but he played an effective role in that side. I like how Jason Lowe plays just in front of Dann and Hanley. He has bite in the tackle, a great engine and is a committed team player. Our recent improved defensive performances ( Dann and Hanley were excellent last night ) say much about his growing maturity in that role.

After the game I walked home with an air of optimism for the first time since Big Sam was in charge. We beat a good footballing side, albeit one that was well drilled in the dark arts of Italian gamesmanship . I questioned Gary Bowyer's appointment after Appleton was sacked. I wanted a seasoned manager in the style of Billy Davis, Mick McCarthey, Big Sam et al. Although it's early days and we shouldn't get too carried away I think we might have unearthed a managerial gem in Gary Bowyer.

Up the Rovers

[Majiball]

By "play nice" I mean I won't bother, as there's no point entering a debate with somebody who can't handle strong opinions. I'm fairly sure den can, but if not all he has to do is ask me to stop debating with him and I'm happy to do so. It's certainly no business of yours either way.

By replying to me you entered into debate and suggest that you are happy to do so. but then you end it with 'no business of yours' does that mean you can't handle strong opinions?

The first eight words spell out the clue, it's not how you mean things that matter it's how they are interpreted by the receiver. God knows that's been aimed at me enough times on here. Rhodes could be a great striker if he could add more to his game, yes he puts the ball in the net but he could still do that and contribute more. He will need to do this to get to the top of the game and I assume he wants that too. Gone are the days of the fox in the box, it's just not desired in the elite and it would be a tragedy given his sublime ability to finish.

Bicker, bicker, bicker.

WUM

[DE.]

By replying to me you entered into debate and suggest that you are happy to do so. but then you end it with 'no business of yours' does that mean you can't handle strong opinions?

The first eight words spell out the clue, it's not how you mean things that matter it's how they are interpreted by the receiver. God knows that's been aimed at me enough times on here. Rhodes could be a great striker if he could add more to his game, yes he puts the ball in the net but he could still do that and contribute more. He will need to do this to get to the top of the game and I assume he wants that too. Gone are the days of the fox in the box, it's just not desired in the elite and it would be a tragedy given his sublime ability to finish.

Maj, I have no problem debating Jordan on here with you, but I don't think it's any business of yours to criticise my interactions with any other posters - assuming I'm not being a total dick, which in this case I don't think I was if the community managers think I'm being a @#/? or den flags it up with me then no problem, otherwise it's nobody else's business IMO.

Rhodes can improve, of course, but to do so we will need to change the way we play and I'm not sure that would be beneficial with the team we have available.