[Archived] Climate Change

[Steve Moss]

More gaming data to support climate change, this time by USA federal scientists:

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/102815-777967-congress-launches-investigation-into-agencys-data-manipulation.htm#ixzz3q1lcQ34y

[MCMC1875]

More gaming data to support climate change, this time by USA federal scientists:

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/102815-777967-congress-launches-investigation-into-agencys-data-manipulation.htm#ixzz3q1lcQ34y

Is it summat to do with guns?

[Steve Moss]

Is it summat to do with guns?

1. Why are you so fixated on guns? Don't be so single minded. Broaden your horizons.

2. Read and learn.

[ultrablue]

More gaming data to support climate change, this time by USA federal scientists:

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/102815-777967-congress-launches-investigation-into-agencys-data-manipulation.htm#ixzz3q1lcQ34y

Nothing to learn here.

No sources, no data, no evidence. The article exists solely to cast doubt and muddy the waters.

The article sums itself up with this classic phrase: "a clear sign of possible bias."

[Al]

PC as usual Ultrablue. I'm with Steve.

[ultrablue]

How very contrary of you Al. If you cant see through that load of nonsense you're a bigger fool than I thought!

[Steve Moss]

Nothing to learn here.

No sources, no data, no evidence. The article exists solely to cast doubt and muddy the waters.

The article sums itself up with this classic phrase: "a clear sign of possible bias."

What a laugh.

If they didn't manipulate the data, what are they hiding? Because it sure looks like the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) is hiding something.

[Baz]

What a laugh.

If they didn't manipulate the data, what are they hiding? Because it sure looks like the [/size]National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) is hiding something.[/size]

What are they gaining by manipulating data?

[ultrablue]

McCarthyism has never left the right wing in America. It's just shifted its focus to sciencists and minorities.

There is no evidence of any manipulation. And a closed door is not proof of collusion. Just different data sets gathered through different methods leading to different conclusions. Let the scientists work out which are reliable.

The only politics going on here is a rightwing texan politician trying to make a name for himself on right wing websites.

[Al]

The worst kind of blindness is from those who refuse to see.

[joey_big_nose]

Thousands of amature super sleuths taking on the full weight of the scientific community...

Climate science is an incredibly complex subject I don't know anything about, nor do I have the time or inclination to do the vast amount of learning (actual academic study, not reading a few half baked articles on the internet) required to form an independent opinion.

(I wonder how many of those - here and elsewhere - who are challenging overwhelming scientific opinion actually have any real understanding of what they are talking about beyond cherry picking the bits of research on the internet that support their pre-determined opinion? Or even worse quoting articles from other people who do not understand the science who are themselves are cherry picking the bits of research on the internet that support their pre-determined opinion?)

I am going to have to back the 97% of trained, accredited and researched professional scientists from all over the world who support that humans are causing global warming through emissions.

[Steve Moss]

I am going to have to back the 97% of trained, accredited and researched professional scientists from all over the world who support that humans are causing global warming through emissions.

Your faith in authority is charmingly naive.

We're now headed to a cooling period, not warming. Which is why the authority figures in whom you place your trust who once shrieked about "global cooling" and then more recently "global warming" are now transitioning to "climate change". That way, no matter what happens, they can claim to be right and demand action, which will only [i'm sure] coincidentally empower and enrich themselves.

But you go ahead and place your faith, personal liberty and finances and your nation's economy in the hands of those who are nothing but snake oil salesmen- the new priesthood who interpret the entrails, speak and the peasants obey. Which is what those who won't think for themselves fully deserve.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Cold-sun-rising-30272650.html

[Paul]

Here is what Wikipedia tells us about the Maunder Minimum which apparently began 50 years AFTER the start of the Little Ice Age which incidentally was a North American and European event and not global as the article from Thailand suggests.

The Maunder Minimum roughly coincided with the middle part of the Little Ice Age, during which Europe and North America experienced colder than average temperatures. Whether there is a causal relationship, however, is still controversial, as no convincing mechanism for the solar activity to produce cold temperatures has been proposed,^[12] and the current best hypothesis for the cause of the Little Ice Age is that it was the result of volcanic action.^[13][14] The onset of the Little Ice Age also occurred well before the beginning of the Maunder minimum.^[13]

The correlation between low sunspot activity and cold winters in England has recently been analyzed using the longest existing surface temperature record, the Central England Temperature record.^[15] They emphasize that this is a regional and seasonal effect relating to European winters, and not a global effect. A potential explanation of this has been offered by observations by NASA's Solar Radiation and Climate Experiment, which suggest that solar UV output is more variable over the course of the solar cycle than scientists had previously thought.^[16] In 2011, an article was published in the Nature Geoscience journal that uses a climate model with stratospheric layers and the SORCE data to tie low solar activity to jet stream behavior and mild winters in some places (southern Europe and Canada/Greenland) and colder winters in others (northern Europe and the United States).^[17] In Europe, examples of very cold winters are 1683-84, 1694-95, and the winter of 1708–09.^[18]

Note that the term "Little Ice Age" applied to the Maunder minimum is something of a misnomer as it implies a period of unremitting cold (and on a global scale), which is not the case. For example, the coldest winter in the Central England Temperature record is 1683-84, but the winter just two years later (both in the middle of the Maunder minimum) was the fifth warmest in the whole 350-year CET record. Furthermore, summers during the Maunder minimum were not significantly different from those seen in subsequent years. The drop in global average temperatures in paleoclimate reconstructions at the start of the Little Ice Age was between about 1560 and 1600, whereas the Maunder minimum began almost 50 years later.

[Norbert Rassragr]

Climate change does happen naturally, but all the pollution we produce has knocked it off kilter.

That is how I see it.

[joey_big_nose]

Your faith in authority is charmingly naive.

We're now headed to a cooling period, not warming. Which is why the authority figures in whom you place your trust who once shrieked about "global cooling" and then more recently "global warming" are now transitioning to "climate change". That way, no matter what happens, they can claim to be right and demand action, which will only [i'm sure] coincidentally empower and enrich themselves.

But you go ahead and place your faith, personal liberty and finances and your nation's economy in the hands of those who are nothing but snake oil salesmen- the new priesthood who interpret the entrails, speak and the peasants obey. Which is what those who won't think for themselves fully deserve.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Cold-sun-rising-30272650.html

This is hilarious and depressing. The entire global scientific establishment are "snake oil salesmen"? Totally and utterly barmy. No wonder America is falling apart at the hinges, so many people are willing to prioritise their own anodyne analysis - motivated by what is personally convenient rather than accurate - over scientific consensus whether that be on availability of guns, levels of carbon generation, or provision of health care.

[Baz]

We are having an unseasonably warm November, talk on the radio this morning that spring bulbs are coming up already.

[Steve Moss]

This is hilarious and depressing. The entire global scientific establishment are "snake oil salesmen"? Totally and utterly barmy. No wonder America is falling apart at the hinges, so many people are willing to prioritise their own anodyne analysis - motivated by what is personally convenient rather than accurate - over scientific consensus whether that be on availability of guns, levels of carbon generation, or provision of health care.

America is falling apart at the hinges? If that's the case, the UK's roof is collapsing.

I'll make it simple. Polling scientists is no way to make decisions. 500 hundred years ago they'd tell you the Sun circled the Earth. Nothing has changed. People, including scientists, kow-tow to authority. Be an Englishman. Think for yourself. Don't consult the polls.

If at the end of the day, you think "climate change" is real, and requires government action, fair enough. I'll think you're wrong. But be a man and state that as your own opinion and not the opinion of x% of supposed experts.

[Steve Moss]

What are they gaining by manipulating data?

Government funding? Grants? The adulation of their peers?

My guess is it is based on self-interest. Why rock the boat when you can gain a professorship by pulling an oar in the agreed upon direction.

[Baz]

Government funding? Grants? The adulation of their peers?

My guess is it is based on self-interest. Why rock the boat when you can gain a professorship by pulling an oar in the agreed upon direction.

Theres far more funding from the oil and gas companies to be anti climate change, than pro. Its funding that pays your way through to doctorates.

[Baz]

America is falling apart at the hinges? If that's the case, the UK's roof is collapsing.

I'll make it simple. Polling scientists is no way to make decisions. 500 hundred years ago they'd tell you the Sun circled the Earth. Nothing has changed. People, including scientists, kow-tow to authority. Be an Englishman. Think for yourself. Don't consult the polls.

If at the end of the day, you think "climate change" is real, and requires government action, fair enough. I'll think you're wrong. But be a man and state that as your own opinion and not the opinion of x% of supposed experts.[/]

Climate science is a hugely challenging discipline, and no-one on this site is an expert. Therefore its a pretty understanadble viewpoint to believe the scientific consensus.

As for scientists changing their minds, surely thats the point, science is proving hypothesis until its proven otherwise. Its why we venture to other planets, etc. Until 2 months ago we thought Pluto was a barren mix of rock and ice, now we have some evidence their is still activity as the surface is far smoother than anticipated.

[Ewood Spark]

It really depresses me that people don't understand simple chemistry ... surely people who can operate a computer can understand the mechanics of global warming! It appears not ... Here is a 'noddy' explanation of what is happening for those that don't 'get it'

[yoda]

Piers Corbyn (scientist), Jeremy's brother reckons global warming is load of @#/? (on this week last night)

he also said Jeremy was doing a good job

[K-Hod]

Piers Corbyn (scientist), Jeremy's brother reckons global warming is load of @#/? (on this week last night)

he also said Jeremy was doing a good job

He WOULD though, wouldn't he?

[yoda]

He WOULD though, wouldn't he?

Being a scientist he should consult the empirical data

[K-Hod]

Ha, I'd be tempted to believe him re global warming at the minute, it's been baltic for at least a week!