[Archived] Is Jack Wilshire right?

[jim mk2]

Wilshire's obviously going to be a pain in the arse over the coming years. Already at 21, he's been in trouble with the authorities on and off the field, is unmarried with 2 kids (though some people would say that doesn't matter) and has made contentious statements before this rubbish. He needs reining in by his club and country managers.

As far as I am concerned if anyone who makes their home in this country and is working and paying their taxes is welcome to stay and play for the national teams.

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[Amo]

Whether he is right or wrong isn't the issue for me, the fact that he feels he is in a position to comment on it is the problem..

I am getting pretty sick of these jumped up little kids thinking they run the show. And that's what he is, a 21 year old "kid". No amount of millions in the bank or promise as a potential future star can change that.

To be fair, he's talking out of his jacksy (see what I did thar?) but he's only giving his opinion, which he's fully entitled to do. I mean, you're asking all of us the same question, what makes us any more qualified to comment it on it than him? It's the media who decide to run with those comments and make it back page material.

[Plastics]

Wilshire's obviously going to be a pain in the arse over the coming years. Already at 21, he's been in trouble with the authorities on and off the field, is unmarried with 2 kids (though some people would say that doesn't matter) and has made contentious statements before this rubbish. He needs reining in by his club and country managers.

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It doesn't. You would hope that he provides support for his children both financially and emotionally but the mere fact that he is unmarried with two children means very little in terms of character assessment.

[jim mk2]

It doesn't. You would hope that he provides support for his children both financially and emotionally but the mere fact that he is unmarried with two children means very little in terms of character assessment.

Many people would say it does matter

[Plastics]

Many people would say it does matter

I'm sure they would, but many people say many things so that doesn't really add anything to the debate does it now?

[Audax]

John Barnes, born in Jamaica, played for England. Okay, Paul posted it, didn't see it the first time, really pertains to Barnes' case since he had an illustrious career playing for England.

[jim mk2]

Coupled with his general behaviour, tendency to speak before he thinks and have a high opinion of himself before he has achieved anything, I think it says alot about him and adds to the debate.

[pick32]

No doubt about it he is right, you should have to be born in this country to play for it, you need players who have heart an desire you won't get that with foreign players playing for England. Germany are a disgrace half there team is either polish or Turkish.

[jim mk2]

John Barnes, born in Jamaica, played for England. Okay, Paul posted it, didn't see it the first time, really pertains to Barnes' case since he had an illustrious career playing for England.

Lived in England since he was 13 so what are you trying to prove ? See my first post above.

[Plastics]

No doubt about it he is right, you should have to be born in this country to play for it, you need players who have heart an desire you won't get that with foreign players playing for England. Germany are a disgrace half there team is either polish or Turkish.

Yeah, and they are much worse than Eng.. oh

[jim mk2]

No doubt about it he is right, you should have to be born in this country to play for it, you need players who have heart an desire you won't get that with foreign players playing for England. Germany are a disgrace half there team is either polish or Turkish.

Complete horlicks. This is 2013 not 1913, we are in a world global labour market where people generally move around freely and work and play where they choose. Sports teams reflect that.

[Plastics]

Coupled with his general behaviour, tendency to speak before he thinks and have a high opinion of himself before he has achieved anything, I think it says alot about him and adds to the debate.

I disagree.

[Audax]

No doubt about it he is right, you should have to be born in this country to play for it, you need players who have heart an desire you won't get that with foreign players playing for England. Germany are a disgrace half there team is either polish or Turkish.

The only problem here though is that in the case of Podolski with Poland, born there, they went to the Polish FA first who were not interested. In fact, I believe Zidane first went to the Algeria FA but they didn't pick him.

So where these players are in their career is important too.

Great Britain won the ice hockey gold at the 1936 Olympics , I suppose people assert they had Canadians on the team but if they've got British citizenship??

I think most of the rules are okay, ancestry, place of birth, etc.

[pick32]

You do have to take ancestry into consideration aswel but simply moving over here to play football as a youth players then gaining citizenship isn't fair. Spain, England and Germany have the best league in the world and attract the best youth players so it doesn't create a level playing field for the less desirable countries. In Zidanes case his parents were Algerian but he was born in France so it wasn't a massive issue.

[pick32]

Yeah, and they are much worse than Eng.. oh

Take out Ozil (Turkish) Kehdir (Turkish) Boateng (Ghana) Podolski (Polish) Klose (Polish) Cacau (Brazilian)

Do you think they would of had the same success over the years?

[roversfan99]

You should be born in the country you play for, national pride is what makes international football different from club football.

I don't want Januzaj near the England side, irrespective of ability.

The rules need to be tightened on this as its becoming a joke.

[cn174]

Take out Ozil (Turkish) Kehdir (Turkish) Boateng (Ghana) Podolski (Polish) Klose (Polish) Cacau (Brazilian)

Do you think they would of had the same success over the years?

Ozil, Khedira and Boateng were all born in Germany and have one German parent.

Both Klose and Podolski were born in Poland (as is now) but moved to Germany at a very young age with Auslieder status. They were German many years before they started to play football.

Cacau is the only one who is really comparible to that lad from Man U, who moved to Germany to play football and became a citizen in the mean time.

[Audax]

In June 2013, Marc Van Geersom, former coach of the Belgium U-18 and U-19, has declared that Januzaj has refused a call-up to the Belgian team a number of times, since he would prefer to play for Albania.^[8][9] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adnan_Januzaj

If he has refused call-up for Belgium by choosing Albania and seeing them as his native country, doesn't quite make sense to somehow play for England. And I agree with an earlier post, this is sort of a story just for the news, he scored 2 goals against the 20th place club in the Premier League. He may become a great but for me, not enough to go by yet.

USA has had a similar dilemma with Giuseppe Rossi, born in the USA but went to Parma Italy at 12 years old, so Rossi chose to play for Italy and that does seem more proper. By the way, 27 caps for Italy since 2008, not sure if he is a real fixture in their squad or went to the last Euro. He was not playing for Italy at South Africa 2010.

[savage90]

I noticed a Scott calling the England team laughable for considering Janujaz, even though they have Jordan Rhodes playing for them via the same loophole; he was born in Oldham?

[K-Hod]

Take out Ozil (Turkish) Kehdir (Turkish) Boateng (Ghana) Podolski (Polish) Klose (Polish) Cacau (Brazilian)

Do you think they would of had the same success over the years?

The first 3 were born in Germany??

[Plastics]

Take out Ozil (Turkish) Kehdir (Turkish) Boateng (Ghana) Podolski (Polish) Klose (Polish) Cacau (Brazilian)

Do you think they would of had the same success over the years?

What I was arguing against was your unfounded and overly sentimental claim that you wouldn't get the same determination with foreigners. I wasn't referring to anything else with that post.

[Audax]

I noticed a Scott calling the England team laughable for considering Janujaz, even though they have Jordan Rhodes playing for them via the same loophole; he was born in Oldham?

In October 2013 England manager Roy Hodgson stated that the Football Association were monitoring the player with a view to calling him up in the future.^[13] However, despite widespread press coverage, the player would not meet the requirements to play for England under the unique rules set out in the Home nations agreement.^[14] The Home nations agreement requires that players engage in a minimum of five years education under the age of 18 within the territory of the relevant association and do not offer national team eligibility through residency.^[14][15]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adnan_Januzaj

Actually to me, "a minimum of five years of education under the age of 18...." does make sense. It doesn't seem proper for someone to sign on with a club at 16 years old, have their education basically at the club.

The first 3 were born in Germany??

Yes, I always thought those 3 were born in Germany alright.

[Guest Norbert]

Now, what if you are born in Hong Kong before 1997 to 2 English parents? Should that person play for China, Hong Kong or England?

And as an interesting aside, revolutionary France considered Benjamin Franklin (born in modern USA) and Thomas Paine (born in Norfolk) patriots, but people like Mirabeau and King Louis XVI as traitors etc.

[Audax]

Now, what if you are born in Hong Kong before 1997 to 2 English parents? Should that person play for China, Hong Kong or England?

And as an interesting aside, revolutionary France considered Benjamin Franklin (born in modern USA) and Thomas Paine (born in Norfolk) patriots, but people like Mirabeau and King Louis XVI as traitors etc.

For England or Hong Kong (see #157, Elo Ratings) , not so sure about China.

So Januzaj rejected Belgium, I can see where at times, an athlete could be from a country but let's say he doesn't approve of what a country stands for, their ideology and so rejects them on that though that seems to be acting ungrateful on the surface. Lots of variables here.

[Clitherover]

I noticed a Scott calling the England team laughable for considering Janujaz, even though they have Jordan Rhodes playing for them via the same loophole; he was born in Oldham?

Completely true, he lived up there for a while whilst his Dad was playing for a couple of teams. If other countries are doing it I don't see why we shouldn't. Football is full of nonsensical rules and we might as well take advantage of them, after all we are falling behind as a national squad more and more each year it seems.