[Archived] Is Jack Wilshire right?

[RibbleValleyRover]

Take out Ozil (Turkish) Kehdir (Turkish) Boateng (Ghana) Podolski (Polish) Klose (Polish) Cacau (Brazilian)

Do you think they would of had the same success over the years?

Ozil, Khedira and Boateng were born in Germany. If you are born in that country you should be able to participate in national sports for that country, no matter what your parents or grandparents ancestry is. If the individual decides to play for another country and qualifies to be able to do so again that shouldn't be a problem.

[watford-rover]

iirc jermaine jones played for Germany when England beat them 2-1 in Germany under capello, now he is a regular in the USA team. I know he has a parent from each country but once he has chosen one to play for he shouldn't be able to change because he isn't being picked. There's so many loop holes and small print that it will never stop. As said previously how long until a country can buy a players nationality by giving him a passport and £20million?

[DE.]

iirc jermaine jones played for Germany when England beat them 2-1 in Germany under capello, now he is a regular in the USA team. I know he has a parent from each country but once he has chosen one to play for he shouldn't be able to change because he isn't being picked. There's so many loop holes and small print that it will never stop. As said previously how long until a country can buy a players nationality by giving him a passport and £20million?

You have to have played in a competitive match for your chosen country, it isn't to do with not being picked regularly. He only played in friendlies so was still eligible to play for the United States.

[watford-rover]

You have to have played in a competitive match for your chosen country, it isn't to do with not being picked regularly. He only played in friendlies so was still eligible to play for the United States.

Friendlies are still counted as senior caps so I don't agree with the rules there. Just seems wrong to me

[pick32]

Both ozils parents are Turkish and Marin who also plays for them is about as German as me.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Owen Hargreaves is another one. And he was one of England's best performing players at tournaments. Wasn't a problem then I don't think?

If you feel you identify with a nation more than any other then you should be allowed to play for them imo.

Rhodes I have no problem with because he said he supported Scotland when he was younger.

Podolski was two years old I think when he left Poland. So I doubt he even remembers living there.

Is Marcel Desailly allowed to cheer on Ghana at the 2010 World Cup when he chose to play for France? No, thought it was ridiculous that he did that personally.

[roversfan99]

Diego Costa and Januzaj are picking countries potentially based on living there for 5 years, which is pathetic in all honesty.

[McClarky]

No doubt about it he is right, you should have to be born in this country to play for it, you need players who have heart an desire you won't get that with foreign players playing for England. Germany are a disgrace half there team is either polish or Turkish.

Hilarious. I couldn't imagine a team playing with less heart and desire than England have in recent years.

[Plastics]

Is Marcel Desailly allowed to cheer on Ghana at the 2010 World Cup when he chose to play for France? No, thought it was ridiculous that he did that personally.

Just because you feel more identity with one nation, doesn't mean you can't identify with others. He moved when he was 4. How is that ridiculous? I have a friend who is an England and Zambia fan. Was born in this country but his family are Zambian and he is passionate about African football and the importance it can have for developing nations.

[Guest Norbert]

Got a point there McClarky. England players seem to try for about 30 minutes, and then think about their next tweet/supercar/contract renewal and go through the motions. They do not yearn and crave the glory of winning a trophy for their country. They'd be a bit miffed after a 1st round exit, claim to be 'gutted' and then arrange a night out with their mates to gang bang some slag.

[roversfan99]

Just because you feel more identity with one nation, doesn't mean you can't identify with others. He moved when he was 4. How is that ridiculous? I have a Zambian friend who is an England and Zambia fan. Was born in this country but is passionate about African football and the importance it can have for developing nations.

Have an english friend then you mean.

[Plastics]

Have an english friend then you mean.

Indeed. Typo. Will edit.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Just because you feel more identity with one nation, doesn't mean you can't identify with others. He moved when he was 4. How is that ridiculous? I have a friend who is an England and Zambia fan. Was born in this country but his family are Zambian and he is passionate about African football and the importance it can have for developing nations.

I'm Scottish but am part-Irish. If I chose to play for Ireland, then I would never appear on Scottish/British tv cheering on Scotland.

[darrenrover]

In response to the OP, I think Jack Wilshire is dead right.

You're either English or your not. Welsh, Irish because you qualify as a consequence of a second uncle twice removed never did cut it for me.

Germany and France have exploited this scenario more than most in recent years, never mind Ireland and Wales.

It just totally devalues 'playing for your country'. That should be what it says, no debate!

[Plastics]

I'm Scottish but am part-Irish. If I chose to play for Ireland, then I would never appear on Scottish/British tv cheering on Scotland.

I'm not saying you have to. But it wouldn't be ridiculous if you did.

[BRFC4EVA]

One thing that really frustrates me about this issue is how misinformation and wrong ideas get thrown about. A great example would be the post on how the German team is full of 'Poles and Turks' and gives a list of players. Of all those players, they were either born and raised in Germany or came to Germany before they were out of nappies. All would speak German with a native accent and have memories of only living in that country.

The same is also said of France esp the 1998 team, yet when you look through it, they were all either born and raised in France (albeit to foreign parents) like Zidane, or who came to France as 2 or 3 yr olds like Vieria or Desailly. The German and French situation is completely different to a Belgian lad moving to England as an adult and qualifying through residency.

Also Ive read nothing as to where Wiltshire said that he wants only English born players? Didnt he just say that he wants English players and that England is for the English. To be honest I entirely agree with his sentiments, I dont think he means that he has a problem with those born abroad who come to England young (ie Sterling or Zaha) or who have English parentage (ie Hardgreaves), but he specifically talking about those who have no links whatsoever to the country except for residency!!

[Giant]

The rule for playing any international sport should be simple, only those born in a country should be eligible to represent it. This would make sport more competitive by enabling those countries that lose players to the more powerful to field better teams in international competitions. It is a complete nonsense that a footballer born in London but with an Irish granny can represent Ireland, or that a multitude of Saffers play cricket for England. How many African countries are robbed of great footballers, athletes etc to the rich ones of Europe? The latest garbage about getting a Kosovan/Albanian born in Belgium to be the next big thing for the England football team smacks of desperation. Wilshire is absolutely right.

[yoda]

He's wrong for me. It's feasible that someone that plays for England could be born elsewhere, but be essentially English.

The five year residency thing should definitely change though IMO.

change to what?

[darrenrover]

For me, playing for your country should mean just that. Play for the country where you were born, period.

I've always found the Irish, Turkish, Jock excuses excuses for being Irish, Scottish or German ridiculous considering cousins etc. where's the pride in playing for your country?

There is no debate IMO, if you're Belgian you play for Belgium!

[DE.]

For me, playing for your country should mean just that. Play for the country where you were born, period.

I've always found the Irish, Turkish, Jock excuses excuses for being Irish, Scottish or German ridiculous considering cousins etc. where's the pride in playing for your country?

There is no debate IMO, if you're Belgian you play for Belgium!

So if you're born in Belgium but at the age of 1 move to England, are brought up in England, speak English and know nothing of Belgium you should still be forced to play only for Belgium even though you conceivably have little to no link to that country other than the fact you were born there?

[darrenrover]

So if you're born in Belgium but at the age of 1 move to England, are brought up in England, speak English and know nothing of Belgium you should still be forced to play only for Belgium even though you conceivably have little to no link to that country other than the fact you were born there?

Correct, that's my view and for what it's worth, that's what I thought international football was all about.

You represent the country of your birth, end of. The rests a crock of @#/? and of convenience. I'll stand corrected if somebody can convince me otherwise.

[BRFC4EVA]

So if you're born in Belgium but at the age of 1 move to England, are brought up in England, speak English and know nothing of Belgium you should still be forced to play only for Belgium even though you conceivably have little to no link to that country other than the fact you were born there?

Exactly. Those whose are saying the rule should be a simple matter of 'place of birth only'-its nonsense. What happens if both your parents are English, you spent your whole life growing up in England an only speak English. But your dad had a years job in the Ukraine and you were born in Kiev (moved back to england at 6months). You've never been back, dont speak a work of Ukrainian and know nothing of the country? So your saying that person should play for Ukraine?!

[darrenrover]

Exactly. Those whose are saying the rule should be a simple matter of 'place of birth only'-its nonsense. What happens if both your parents are English, you spent your whole life growing up in England an only speak English. But your dad had a years job in the Ukraine and you were born in Kiev (moved back to england at 6months). You've never been back, dont speak a work of Ukrainian and know nothing of the country? So your saying that person should play for Ukraine?!

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. For me if you're born in England, you qualify to play for England and nobody else. It shouldn't matter a toss where your grandparents were born. We're talking international football, representing your country, pride etc. not walking out to play for someone of convenience.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Yes but what they're (rightly) saying is country of birth doesn't always represent what nationality that person is. There is a massive difference between Januzaj and Shaun Maloney being born in Malaysia therefore that's who he should play for.

[Plastics]

I wonder how some posters on here would deal with the topic of gender identity if they are so rigid on something as flimsy as national identity.