[Archived] Blackpool vs. Blackburn Rovers- Saturday 26/10/13 3pm.

[den]

Absolutely, it's staggering people are aiming critisizm at Rhodes because all he does is score goals, that's all he needs to do, build a team around that strength and you're half way to the premiership

How do you build a team around someone who gets marked out of the game as he did on Saturday Gav?

You can't. Your striker has to contribute to the team effort, just as Fuller apparently did. Top managers know that, heck, everyone should know that.

[rossyrover]

On the Rhodes issue Rhodes is a striker who scores goals in a team that can't pass half the time if you pump the high ball forward to a player like Rhodes its a waste of effort lets see more passing on the grass to feet, thank God we have him 10 goals so far this season as for replacing him with Leon Best their is no comparison one scores goals [Rhodes] the other misses more than not [best] lets stop moaning and enjoy the best goal scorer in this league while we have him.

[OJRovers]

Despite Rhodes' weaknesses, i've not seen anything from Campbell or Best to suggest they will be any better. Neither have exactly given 100% or scored much when they've been given a chance to play.

[Mike E]

Put it this way: if we can get Dunn or Rochina on the pitch alongside Rhodes, with Judge, Cairney and King behind them, I wouldn't criticise Rhodes at all.

For Rhodes to be completely effective (given his weaknesses) he needs a full strength team behind him. Essentially he's a version of the Yak that's just more reliant on the feeding.

[Stuart]

Put it this way: if we can get Dunn or Rochina on the pitch alongside Rhodes, with Judge, Cairney and King behind them, I wouldn't criticise Rhodes at all.

For Rhodes to be completely effective (given his weaknesses) he needs a full strength team behind him. Essentially he's a version of the Yak that's just more reliant on the feeding.

So you'll only criticise Rhodes when he fails to compensate for the players around him who aren't good enough?

Seems a bit harsh.

Surely we should be concentrating on making sure the team plays to the strengths of the league's top goalscorer?

[Mike E]

So you'll only criticise Rhodes when he fails to compensate for the players around him who aren't good enough?

Seems a bit harsh.

Surely we should be concentrating on making sure the team plays to the strengths of the league's top goalscorer?

I worded it weirdly, I admit but your last paragraph was what I was getting at. I believe that those (or similar) attacking personnel would have Rhodes getting ridiculous goal figures. At this level, the man's a cricket score all on his own.

But what I meant was if we can't field that sort of team behind him, he's useless. That's when his flaws are exaggerated and draw criticism.

[Guest Wen Y Hu]

Parsonblue's match report is now published to the front page here.

[FGS5635]

Works both ways tho with Rhodes. If he did the dirty stuff better and worked harder to hold up the ball, the midfield could push up more, we could play higher up the pitch, create more chances and he'd score even more goals.

I dont expect him to suddenly jump 2 foot higher for headers, or find 3 yards of pace to run the channels, I just expect him to put the same effort in outside the box as he does inside and around it. For me his short comings arent as much physical or ability at times, its effort and desire to do the dirty stuff and thats what I find frustrating with him at times becasue when it comes to finishing he really is as good as anything in any league you want to mention accross the globe. It seems insane to use the words world class when discussing a player outside of the top flight, but his finishing abilty is pretty close to that.

[Stuart]

Works both ways tho with Rhodes. If he did the dirty stuff better and worked harder to hold up the ball, the midfield could push up more, we could play higher up the pitch, create more chances and he'd score even more goals.

I dont expect him to suddenly jump 2 foot higher for headers, or find 3 yards of pace to run the channels, I just expect him to put the same effort in outside the box as he does inside and around it. For me his short comings arent as much physical or ability at times, its effort and desire to do the dirty stuff and thats what I find frustrating with him at times becasue when it comes to finishing he really is as good as anything in any league you want to mention accross the globe. It seems insane to use the words world class when discussing a player outside of the top flight, but his finishing abilty is pretty close to that.

But if he's doing more, say dropping deeper for the ball, or going wider, he is not going to be on the end of the chances we/he creates.

He isn't Alan Shearer and never will be.

[FGS5635]

But if he's doing more, say dropping deeper for the ball, or going wider, he is not going to be on the end of the chances we/he creates.

He isn't Alan Shearer and never will be.

He's in them areas now, but losing the ball. LIS Im not expecting him to do things different, I just want him to do things better, for the teams benefit and ultimatley his. I also dont expect him to be shearer, there will only ever be one shearer. I just want him to be a better Jordan Rhodes

[Steve Moss]

How do you build a team around someone who gets marked out of the game as he did on Saturday Gav?

I'm just a U14 coach, but when teams man-mark my best players that's usually to my advantage:

1. If they don't put their best man on mine, their marking player might as well not be on the field as he'll dribble circles around him and beat him with a pass every time. And there will be a tendency to let him do that, as he's supposedly covered already, which means their tactic is ineffective unless they put another body on him.

2. If they double team my best player, I have at least one player roaming free.

3. If they put their best man on mine, its more or less a wash, so what does it matter?

So I don't see why people think man-marking Jordan Rhodes is such a huge benefit to the other team. We have other scorers, if they take the chances their given.

Bowyer dropping JR would be like turkeys voting for Christmas on here.

But it may actually be a good move. Perhaps a week of rest, and getting that bandage of his hand, might do wonders for his performance.

And it would encourage those who replaced him to give 100% for that particular match. Best and Campbell might realize this is their one chance to show what they can do and really give it a go. If they don't, we'd know they're worthless and can work on shipping them out.

Wish Friedel would come back and do us one last favour before he retires.

This is one of my dreams also [perhaps in a player-coach role], but I don't see it happening unfortunately.

[McClarky]

Probably like a few other of the top players at this level JR is great at some parts of his job but not so good at others. hence why he plays for us. It is a concern though that he doesn't seem to improve the bits that he isn't so good at which makes you question whether he will ever really make it as a top player. Against Bolton the other week he was superb, when others were playing well around him he looked like a great player but in the last few games when we have struggled he has contributed next to nothing. That's been the story since he joined us though.

[FGS5635]

Teams dont man mark JR. They simply have 2 guys playing centre half in his area of the pitch so they just pick him up

The key is getting other players in and around the box so they cant just mark rhodes. Our midfielders cant keep sprinting from box to box for 90 mins like headless chickens, so the play has to be built up allowing them to get forward.

This is where you need a centre forward to hold it up at times giving your midfield time to get forward to get more bodies up there to create more room for rhodes and others, thus creating more chances and ultimatley more goals.

Its not a complicated tactic, its just common sense imo

[Gav]

That's what we try to do Gav but like anything, not everything goes to plan. When Rhodes does not score he offers absolutely nothing to the team.

Yak "just scored goals" too, but when he wasn't on the scoresheet he was very effective in bringing the wingers into play. Rhodes does none of that.

Bit of a catch 22 situation with Rhodes though, because you can't take him off as he can score a goal at any point.

Only way to solve the situation is to improve his game and if the fans can see where he needs improvement, then hopefully so will Bowyer. Whether Rhodes can improve is a different matter.

Having a go at those criticising Rhodes is out of order. He isn't immune to criticism just because he is our top scorer.

Not sure why you think having a go at people for critisizing Rhodes is out of order? Get a grip man it's a bleedin messageboard for goodness sake, that's what you're supposed to do!

I take all the points on board, but some people need to wake up, we're no longer a premiership side that can pick and choose who plays week in week out. Rhodes is the most prolific goalscorer in the Championship and people are complaining he doesn't run enough.

Laughable!

[FGS5635]

I dont see how its laughable to say he can improve. All the players can improve, we could have these discussions about everyone, but we are here having it about JR.

He scores the goals, he's a top player for us, but he can get better. Doesnt mean I dont like him, cheer him or am gratefull we have him.

On message boards discussions can quickly fall into 2 camps, fanboy or hater. the truth is there is a whole lot in the middle of the 2 camps where sensible discussion can take place

[Gav]

I dont see how its laughable to say he can improve. All the players can improve, we could have these discussions about everyone, but we are here having it about JR.

He scores the goals, he's a top player for us, but he can get better. Doesnt mean I dont like him, cheer him or am gratefull we have him.

On message boards discussions can quickly fall into 2 camps, fanboy or hater. the truth is there is a whole lot in the middle of the 2 camps where sensible discussion can take place

You're right about the 2 camps and yes Rhodes can improve and no harm in discussing that but a few posters seem to be courting controversy by suggesting he shouldn't be playing/should be sold and that it's completely laughable in my book.

[thenodrog]

Absolutely, it's staggering people are aiming critisizm at Rhodes because all he does is score goals, that's all he needs to do, build a team around that strength and you're half way to the premiership.

His game isn't holding the ball up or running the channels, so to ask him to do that would detract from his goal scoring ability for me.

Get someone else to play that role and let Rhodes 'just score goals'.

Good theories except penalties aside it all falls down cos he isn't doing.

Not only that but the team that we built around him both got injured.

[Parsonblue]

Not sure why you think having a go at people for critisizing Rhodes is out of order? Get a grip man it's a bleedin messageboard for goodness sake, that's what you're supposed to do!

I take all the points on board, but some people need to wake up, we're no longer a premiership side that can pick and choose who plays week in week out. Rhodes is the most prolific goalscorer in the Championship and people are complaining he doesn't run enough.

Laughable!

I don't think people are complaining he doesn't run enough. I think we are saying that someone playing as a lone striker needs to have certain other attributes to his game. He needs to be able to hold the ball up and play in midfield runners. He needs to retain possession and work the defenders - very similar to the way Fuller did on Saturday. A goal poacher and a lone front man seem to me to be two very different roles requiring a different approach. As a goal poacher Rhodes is the best in the Championship - or certainly up there with the best. However, on Saturday there was no doubt that Fuller looked far superior in that front man role and, ultimately, as you say we don't have the players that we had in the Premiership and that means that those in the team have to be able to perform different roles depending on circumstances. A pairing of Fuller and Rhodes would be the ideal spearhead for me.

I totally agree with you that on a board like this you should be able to have a healthy debate and accept that people with have different views and those views are well reflected on this board.

[Proudtobeblue&white]

So, what in the current situation (Dunn/Rochina injured, DJ now suspended/Best seemingly with a bad attitude) does GB do? Does he drop JR for away games, and play Best as the loan striker? I was not impressed with their combination v Charlton, so does he persevere with them at home.

Are there any other options? King to play alongside, I don't think so.

Judge doesn't seem to be the answer, Marshall ( lacking confidence). Seems we have a problem.....thing is JR has 10 goals, no-one else anywhere near, so he is playing by default? Just because we have no other option at present.

We are mid-table fodder, no point falling out, debate is healthy.

[roversfan99]

With Fuller, he never looked like scoring and his goalscoring record is very poor. Ulloa and Deeney are examples of players at this level that can do both.

I disagree in terms of us playing 2 up front with a Fuller like presence; I think that playing some form of 5 man midfield is essential to keep the ball. I would like Josh King to start chipping in with a few goals, he is playing very well this season and is often our biggest threat, I just feel that he should start scoring one or two goals.

Playing Judge gave us a bit more movement and we played some good one touch football at times in the first half between Judge, Cairney and Kane. More of that would allow us to make angles to play Rhodes through on goal, and I feel that at times Rhodes should ask for it to feet then lay it off first time. There was one point that really impressed me, after a few passes, Cairney played into Judge who span the defender, and he had a shot saved before King hit the ball over.

Why do you feel that Judge isn't the answer? I felt that compared to the Charlton game, where we looked devoid of ideas in midfield, that there was far more fluidity and one touch movement in the first half in particular, and Judge was a big part in it.

Rhodes is the top scorer in the league and should play for that reason alone. However, I agree that he needs to work on the rest of his game. Playing to feet and just infront of him to run onto suits him more than aerial passes.

[Proudtobeblue&white]

I'd like to see a bit more of Judge, but is he THE answer at present, of course he only seems to be playing now as a backlash to the Charlton defeat and lack of other options. Interesting game coming up on Sat, we need to see a really different performance to the one in the last home game.

[JAL]

We need to remember that Fuller was up against the hapless Scott Dann whilst non of us may really know the Blackpool centre half's, the truth maybe that they are much better at their job than what Scott Dann is.

[AggyBlue]

Are there any other options? King to play alongside, I don't think so.

It must be worth a try. I know exactly why you wouldn't think so but nothing ventured nothing gained.

[roversfan99]

I'd like to see a bit more of Judge, but is he THE answer at present, of course he only seems to be playing now as a backlash to the Charlton defeat and lack of other options. Interesting game coming up on Sat, we need to see a really different performance to the one in the last home game.

Would be the answer for me whilst Dunn and Rochina recover. A more than able deputy.

I'm happy with King out wide, he is so much better running into open spaces down the wing.

[chaddyrovers]

So, what in the current situation (Dunn/Rochina injured, DJ now suspended/Best seemingly with a bad attitude) does GB do? Does he drop JR for away games, and play Best as the loan striker? I was not impressed with their combination v Charlton, so does he persevere with them at home.

Are there any other options? King to play alongside, I don't think so.

I think its worth trying King the number 10 role where he would have less defensive duties and would be able to run at the back 4 by getting inbetween the defence and midfield.

With Fuller, he never looked like scoring and his goalscoring record is very poor. Ulloa and Deeney are examples of players at this level that can do both.

I disagree in terms of us playing 2 up front with a Fuller like presence; I think that playing some form of 5 man midfield is essential to keep the ball. I would like Josh King to start chipping in with a few goals, he is playing very well this season and is often our biggest threat, I just feel that he should start scoring one or two goals.

Playing Judge gave us a bit more movement and we played some good one touch football at times in the first half between Judge, Cairney and Kane. More of that would allow us to make angles to play Rhodes through on goal, and I feel that at times Rhodes should ask for it to feet then lay it off first time. There was one point that really impressed me, after a few passes, Cairney played into Judge who span the defender, and he had a shot saved before King hit the ball over.

Why do you feel that Judge isn't the answer? I felt that compared to the Charlton game, where we looked devoid of ideas in midfield, that there was far more fluidity and one touch movement in the first half in particular, and Judge was a big part in it.

Rhodes is the top scorer in the league and should play for that reason alone. However, I agree that he needs to work on the rest of his game. Playing to feet and just infront of him to run onto suits him more than aerial passes.

I would defo play 4-2-3-1 formation but we need to play the ball more on the ground and stop playing the long ball.

the all team needs to start scoring more goals as we cant keep relying on Rhodes so much.

Judge played well on Saturday not outstanding but played the role very well tho.