[Archived] Victor Zapata-Caceido

[Parsonblue]

And subsequently he turned down Dennis Bergkamp for Chris Armstrong. What a visionary.

I couldn't care less what argument he was trying to make. He could've articulated it without using an obviously xenophobic and derogatory expression. I cringe everytime I read it.

Perhaps if people had listened to him then Portsmouth and a number of other clubs might not have hit the problems they did. As for Carlos Kickaball being a xenophobic expression I 'm not quite sure how you come to that conclusion and clearly Shebby landed us with a number of Carlos Kickaball's which is one of our many problems - although in Edinho, Paulo Jorge and Bruno's case it's more "Carlos don't Kickaball but pick up a fat paypacket."

[jim mk2]

Yeah we decided we would never want another Tugay or Friedel here again

Highly unlikely isn't it ? Rather this kid is likely to be similar to the useless types we've signed from Portugal in recent years. I wish you'd engage your brain before posting.

[Tom]

Highly unlikely isn't it ? Rather this kid is likely to be similar to the useless types we've signed from Portugal in recent years. I wish you'd engage your brain before posting.

And I wish you'd stop with the constant snipes at people or I'll make it easier for you to avoid doing so altogether

Was that subtle enough for you?

[Amo]

Perhaps if people had listened to him then Portsmouth and a number of other clubs might not have hit the problems they did. As for Carlos Kickaball being a xenophobic expression I 'm not quite sure how you come to that conclusion and clearly Shebby landed us with a number of Carlos Kickaball's which is one of our many problems - although in Edinho, Paulo Jorge and Bruno's case it's more "Carlos don't Kickaball but pick up a fat paypacket."

Because it discriminates against an entire group of players based on the fact they're foreign. Sure, we've had some foreign imports that have stolen a living, much more so in recent years. The same goes for players from the home nations. Myles Anderson, Danny Murphy, David Goodwillie, Jason Slew, ring any bells? So why are we singling out foreign players with slurs like "Carlos Kickaball", when in fact nationality has no relevance?

[jim mk2]

And I wish you'd stop with the constant snipes at people or I'll make it easier for you to avoid doing so altogether

Was that subtle enough for you?

Next time you have a snipe at me I'll remind you of that.

[arbitro]

Did I miss something and we gave this kid a five year deal on big money? Unless I am mistaken we are having a look at him, that's all. I wasn't on this board when we took Samba and Nelsen on trial - did they generate mass hysteria?

[Stuart]

Because it discriminates against an entire group of players based on the fact they're foreign. Sure, we've had some foreign imports that have stolen a living, much more so in recent years. The same goes for players from the home nations. Myles Anderson, Danny Murphy, David Goodwillie, Jason Slew, ring any bells? So why are we singling out foreign players with slurs like "Carlos Kickaball", when in fact nationality has no relevance?

Q: Why do foreign players come to the PL?

A: Money

I'll bear in mind for future reference though that you are a little more BnWR and a little less Coogan.

[dave birch]

Your question could be put about any employment scenario, couldn't it?

We could use many a cliché:

I need to test myself at the highest level

It's the best league to play in,

I want to play in the champions league.

[Stuart]

Your question could be put about any employment scenario, couldn't it?

We could use many a cliché:

I need to test myself at the highest level

It's the best league to play in,

I want to play in the champions league.

I'm sure there are some foreign players for whom that holds but I think it's pretty safe to say that if/when the money runs out there will be a lot fewer new "imports".

I'm willing to bet too that the increase of foreign players in the PL fairly closely tracks the increase in money year on year.

Parson's mention of our non-playing Portuguese squad members sums up "Carlos" pretty vividly. It's just a shame that to think that is a bad thing brings about cries of racism.

I guess our England team will have to struggle on a bit longer.

[Parsonblue]

Because it discriminates against an entire group of players based on the fact they're foreign. Sure, we've had some foreign imports that have stolen a living, much more so in recent years. The same goes for players from the home nations. Myles Anderson, Danny Murphy, David Goodwillie, Jason Slew, ring any bells? So why are we singling out foreign players with slurs like "Carlos Kickaball", when in fact nationality has no relevance?

So the word "Carlos" is now racist? What a sad world some folk inhabit.

[T.J.Newton]

Examples, plz?

Also, all jokes aside, the term "Carlos Kickaball" does carry some racist undertones.

How does one define a Carlos Kickaball? I assume it's a foreign footballer who's not very good and a bit of a mercenary? Well there's plenty of crap English footballers who have stolen a living over the years. Do we have an ethnic slur for them, too?

whats ethnic about the name Carlos?

My understanding of the term carlos kickaball is 'a player from abroad that usually has good skill and/or technique but lacks the physical and/or mental strength to cut it in the English game'(Carlos Villanueva being the perfect example, as Tom says below)

[Tom]

I understand the concept but without knowing anything of this guy it would be unfair to label him that, bringing him in to have a look at seems a good idea all round

Villenueva for me was the ultimate Carlos Kickaball of recent times, looked to have talent and technique but wasn't much use in this country

Then again we've had plenty of Harry Hoofaballs from this country as well

[bellamy11]

1) Bloody hell, Carlos Kickaball is just a silly nickname. What's the big issue?

2) Bloody hell, "you daft racist" is just a silly Partridge quote. What's the big issue?

3) Have I really just read the equivalent of "bloody foreign footballers coming over here, stealing our footballer's jobs?!?".

This place has completely jumped the shark.

[AggyBlue]

Next time you have a snipe at me I'll remind you of that.

How about clamping down on racial agitators, a much more annoying type of poster.

We don't need 'racist' being thrown at people for no reason.

Sorry Jim, should have linked Toms post to you

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Did I miss something and we gave this kid a five year deal on big money? Unless I am mistaken we are having a look at him, that's all. I wasn't on this board when we took Samba and Nelsen on trial - did they generate mass hysteria?

A guy who couldn't get a game for Hertha Berlin and a New Zealander coming from the American league?

I'm gonna go with yes.

[Mike E]

How about clamping down on racial agitators, a much more annoying type of poster.

We don't need 'racist' being thrown at people for no reason

Watch more Alan Partridge mate.

[Guest Norbert]

Always a good suggestion in my book.

Move and fire, move and fire.

[Amo]

So the word "Carlos" is now racist? What a sad world some folk inhabit.

Don't be deliberately obtuse. "Carlos Kickaball" - those two words together are a derogatory term used for foreign players, as coined by the delightful Lord Sugar during a xenophobic rant about the game. I don't see why people like Jim need to single out not wanting "them" sorts of players (despite having no informed opinion on said player's ability, btw), when I generally thought we wouldn't want ANY player stealing a wage here, no matter where he comes from. Would you find a serious journalist using such a term?

But naaah, let's whine about political correctness instead of actually constructing an argument. That'll do.

[The Rover of Finland]

Is it 1£/letter when printing the shirt? The club is turning every stone.

[Bundesburn]

First off, anyone calling Alan Sugar a man of vision would benefit from knowing that he said the iPod would be "dead by next Christmas." That was in 2005. He's a souped up market trader and his comments about the Premier League are no different from the comments I'd hear from Black (calm down, Topman [safety wink] ) Cab Drivers when I lived in London. They might have The Knowledge, but they've very little vision, although I do imagine a couple on here might agree with their views on immigration.

Secondly, connotations of a "C-Word K-Word" are definitely geared towards those with an exotic sounding name or background, so in a sense, The Artist Formerly Known As Topman has a point and, given the form I've witnessed, I'd wager the intent is there on the part of Jim. Those defending his saying it in abstract terms should have a look at the context.

Finally, is this lad any good? Anyone seen him in action? I wouldn't much care if his name actually was Carlos Kiqueáböl, so long as he's got the ability.

[Stuart]

Some people can't seem to grasp the difference between stereotyping and racism.

Sadly, it's not a condition limited to this mb.

And if we ever have to start saying 'C-word K-word', that's me done.

[RevidgeBlue]

I took Sugar's use of the term Carlos Kickaball to mean the increasing practice of drafting in foreign players who were on ridiculous wages, were only here for rhe money and were no better than their home grown counterparts they were keeping our of the side.

His use of the term wasn't racist in the slightest imo nor of course was he suggesting for one minute that allforeign players were that way inclined, which would have been somewhat xenophobic.

[Hasta]

Ive just read the Sugar article and to be fair his vision in 1996 of what would happen to football finances is fairly accurate.

My use of the term carlos kickaball is different from how sugar used it. I'd use it to refer to an overseas journeyman of unproven ability brought in with the hope of them proving to be gems - probably because they are cheaper than buying homegrown players with the same potential.

[broadsword]

Because it discriminates against an entire group of players based on the fact they're foreign. Sure, we've had some foreign imports that have stolen a living, much more so in recent years. The same goes for players from the home nations. Myles Anderson, Danny Murphy, David Goodwillie, Jason Slew, ring any bells? So why are we singling out foreign players with slurs like "Carlos Kickaball", when in fact nationality has no relevance?

I believe this is wrong.

What Sugar I believe was tryign to refer to was the perception that foreign players should be rated as good just because they are foreign. This is a trap some fans fall into. Carlos Villanueva (ironically), although possibly not the best example as he did have talent, but was fundamentally unsuited to the British game.

There is a derogatory element to what he said, but I think to get the ike over it is to be a bit hyper-sensitive.

[Leonard Venkhater]

I took Sugar's use of the term Carlos Kickaball to mean the increasing practice of drafting in foreign players who were on ridiculous wages, were only here for rhe money and were no better than their home grown counterparts they were keeping our of the side.

His use of the term wasn't racist in the slightest imo nor of course was he suggesting for one minute that allforeign players were that way inclined, which would have been somewhat xenophobic.

Yes, I think that is what Sugar meant with the added slant that clubs were fooled into exaggerating a player's level of skill simply because he was..Spanish, Brazilian, Portuguese ..in some way exotic etc.

nyway, I really don't think anyone's freedom, right to vote, housing prospects or wrongful imprisonment are influenced by a term like Carlos Kickaball. Lets not confuse it with the "N" word etc