[Archived] RANT

[DE.]

I think cannabis legaisation is going to become common in the not too distant future. It's already being rolled out across the US, and when other countries see the money raised from said legalisation it won't take long for them to follow suit.

[Mike E]

Don't forget, smokers also need to pay for NHS services for non-smokers who have suffered through passive smoking. Who knows how many innocent bystanders smokers have killed over the years - aside from themselves...

Close to my heart as an issue; my uncle (teetotal and never smoked in his life) was head waiter at successive restaurants in Manchester since the mid-80's. 20 years of passive smoking in restaurants.

He passed away 2 years ago, aged 59, throat/lung cancer and the relevant docs said his lungs were like that of a 10-a-day smoker.

I think cannabis legaisation is going to become common in the not too distant future. It's already being rolled out across the US, and when other countries see the money raised from said legalisation it won't take long for them to follow suit.

It'll give the Govt an additional thing to tax and tax well. Such smokers could buy perfectly clean marijuana over-the-counter instead of getting grass and baking soda.

[Al]

Don't forget, smokers also need to pay for NHS services for non-smokers who have suffered through passive smoking. Who knows how many innocent bystanders smokers have killed over the years - aside from themselves...

Get over it Stuart. I'm don't smoke but some folk just can't wait to get the next kick in to smokers. I think it's just about being able to tell people what they can and can't do. Just give it a rest. Nobody has ever proved the passive smoking theory yet. Car fumes probably do far more harm.

[thenodrog]

I think cannabis legaisation is going to become common in the not too distant future. It's already being rolled out across the US, and when other countries see the money raised from said legalisation it won't take long for them to follow suit.

Yes and if that raised some money then Cocaine, crystal meth and heroin could follow.

[Adam C]

Being highly addictive and dangerous substances with the capacity to kill through overdose cocaine, crystal meth and heroin all have much more in common with alcohol than cannabis. Can't beat a pint of real ale though eh?

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Get over it Stuart. I'm don't smoke but some folk just can't wait to get the next kick in to smokers. I think it's just about being able to tell people what they can and can't do. Just give it a rest. Nobody has ever proved the passive smoking theory yet. Car fumes probably do far more harm.

Get over it? You brought it up and have snapped at 2 people who criticised it. I'm surprised you don't smoke because you seem to have the same chip on the shoulder as those that do over not being able to pollute public places anymore.

Who needs to prove passive smoking, its flippin obvious. Does anyone actually think all the smoke not directly inhaled by the person smoking just disappears without a trace? Someone in front of me at Rovers today was smoking one of those revolting e-ciggarettes that have god knows what kind of toxic garbage in them to replace the tobacco kick, and the majority of it was blowing straight into my face. I probably smoked more of it than him.

[otto man]

Get over it? You brought it up and have snapped at 2 people who criticised it. I'm surprised you don't smoke because you seem to have the same chip on the shoulder as those that do over not being able to pollute public places anymore.

Who needs to prove passive smoking, its flippin obvious. Does anyone actually think all the smoke not directly inhaled by the person smoking just disappears without a trace? Someone in front of me at Rovers today was smoking one of those revolting e-ciggarettes that have god knows what kind of toxic garbage in them to replace the tobacco kick, and the majority of it was blowing straight into my face. I probably smoked more of it than him.

For the uninformed there is NO smoke from an e cig ONLY vapour. A vapour which is produced from;

The main ingredient of the liquid is food grade Polypropylene Glycol (PG); around 70%. Whilst the name might sound "strange" the substance is used in pharmaceutical products, foods, toothpaste, shaving cream chewing gum,etc. It is freely available in most European countries and in the USA. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) includes propylene glycol on its list of substances "Generally Recognized as Safe" (GRAS) and its also used for asthma inhalers. (See articles here: www.articlesnatch.com/Article/The-Many-Uses-For-Propylene-Glycol/775807 )

Then, Vegetable Glycerin (VG) is added, up to 25% or more. Glycerin is also widely used and non toxic. It is a natural component of all fats and used as a component in many body care products. It is also freely available in most European countries and in the US. Aromatic flavourings are added to provide some taste. These too are both natural and artificial food flavourings ( as such non-toxic) De-ionised water is added to make the liquid thinner. Finally tobacco water extract as nicotine,Typically light liquid has 0.8% (8mg/ml) and medium 1.6% (16mg/ml) nicotine content. There is NO Carbon monoxide or tar present(The really harmful kean) in vapour. When exhaled the vapour disperses leaving no residue for others to inhale. There are also Nicotine free liquids for those who want it.( My Mrs has never smoked but now enjoys vaping some of the flavours without risk of addiction) As an aside. The W.H.O. and other bodies now state that outdoor air pollutants pose a greater risk to society than passive smoking.(Just a little food for thought there for you all)

[Al]

Get over it? You brought it up and have snapped at 2 people who criticised it. I'm surprised you don't smoke because you seem to have the same chip on the shoulder as those that do over not being able to pollute public places anymore.

Who needs to prove passive smoking, its flippin obvious. Does anyone actually think all the smoke not directly inhaled by the person smoking just disappears without a trace? Someone in front of me at Rovers today was smoking one of those revolting e-ciggarettes that have god knows what kind of toxic garbage in them to replace the tobacco kick, and the majority of it was blowing straight into my face. I probably smoked more of it than him.

Great being able to force your will on other people isn't it. What would you enforcers like to ban next?

I originally posted a tongue in cheek rant about the medical boffins and said so. Smoking was one of a list of things and to be honest was only included to make the list look a bit longer. As I said, get over it.

[Adam C]

Aye Otto man I don't get people that complain about E-cigs. Scientific proof that they do absolutely no harm to anyone else yet people give off and they are banned in public places. Some people just have to be oppressing other folks to be happy. I'd certainly rather have someone smoking an e-cig than a fag any day. I actually think the vapour smells quite nice...

I don't think it does us well to say that car exhausts or factory smokestacks are worse than tobacco though. We actually need cars and factories for society to function while pollution from cigs is entirely unnecessary.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Great being able to force your will on other people isn't it. What would you enforcers like to ban next?

I originally posted a tongue in cheek rant about the medical boffins and said so. Smoking was one of a list of things and to be honest was only included to make the list look a bit longer. As I said, get over it.

Whats smoking if not enforcing your will on other people? If every time I wanted a drink, I went up to the people around me in the pub, craned open their mouth and tipped a bit of my pint down it, wouldn't you describe that as enforcing my will? For the record, I didn't complain to the tattoo-sporting, metal-faced chav in front of me puffing smoke in my face cause it simply ain't worth the effort when you can move seats in the Darwen End. I'm hardly Adolf Hitler on these issues, I just don't see fit to try and justify anti-social behaviour, which is what smoking is.

Aye Otto man I don't get people that complain about E-cigs. Scientific proof that they do absolutely no harm to anyone else yet people give off and they are banned in public places. Some people just have to be oppressing other folks to be happy. I'd certainly rather have someone smoking an e-cig than a fag any day. I actually think the vapour smells quite nice...

I don't think it does us well to say that car exhausts or factory smokestacks are worse than tobacco though. We actually need cars and factories for society to function while pollution from cigs is entirely unnecessary.

Otto's post was extremely impressive but if it was recognised and proven beyond scientific doubt by all medical bodies, it wouldn't be banned anywhere. The fact is nothing has been totally proven on them yet, and just like smoking it could be years down the line that certain long-term effects start to be recognised. Personally I think the vapour smells like room thats had wet clothes going mouldy in it for a couple of days.

[thenodrog]

For the uninformed there is NO smoke from an e cig ONLY vapour. A vapour which is produced from;

The main ingredient of the liquid is food grade Polypropylene Glycol (PG); around 70%. Whilst the name might sound "strange" the substance is used in pharmaceutical products, foods, toothpaste, shaving cream chewing gum,etc. It is freely available in most European countries and in the USA. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) includes propylene glycol on its list of substances "Generally Recognized as Safe" (GRAS) and its also used for asthma inhalers. (See articles here: www.articlesnatch.com/Article/The-Many-Uses-For-Propylene-Glycol/775807 )

Then, Vegetable Glycerin (VG) is added, up to 25% or more. Glycerin is also widely used and non toxic. It is a natural component of all fats and used as a component in many body care products. It is also freely available in most European countries and in the US. Aromatic flavourings are added to provide some taste. These too are both natural and artificial food flavourings ( as such non-toxic) De-ionised water is added to make the liquid thinner. Finally tobacco water extract as nicotine,Typically light liquid has 0.8% (8mg/ml) and medium 1.6% (16mg/ml) nicotine content. There is NO Carbon monoxide or tar present(The really harmful kean) in vapour. When exhaled the vapour disperses leaving no residue for others to inhale. There are also Nicotine free liquids for those who want it.( My Mrs has never smoked but now enjoys vaping some of the flavours without risk of addiction) As an aside. The W.H.O. and other bodies now state that outdoor air pollutants pose a greater risk to society than passive smoking.(Just a little food for thought there for you all)

However it is a sign of pathetic weakness and definitely anti social.

Aye Otto man I don't get people that complain about E-cigs. Scientific proof that they do absolutely no harm to anyone else yet people give off

Bit like farts and BO then? Harmless? Maybe.... Obnoxious? Definitely.

[darrenrover]

Tax Revenue in UK from tobacco in 2012/13 was a staggering £12.3 billion.

[Baz]

Tax Revenue in UK from tobacco in 2012/13 was a staggering £12.3 billion.

And the cost to the economy?

[darrenrover]

And the cost to the economy?

Unquantifiable I guess. Cost to NHS is apparently £2.7 billion annually

[otto man]

However it is a sign of pathetic weakness and definitely anti social.

Really? It's allowed me to kick the demon weed Gord after 37 years which can only be a good thing, no?

As to anti social. You won't inhale it, you won't smell of it and it won't affect your health. Anti social, how so?

Bit like farts and BO then? Harmless? Maybe.... Obnoxious? Definitely.

You'll find that the fruit flavours smell like they taste. Everyone I've come into contact with whilst vaping them comments how nice they smell.

[Mike E]

They do indeed smell quite nice, but from my side (wrongly, I know) there's still the pre-judgement I have of smokers. While they smell nice, it's still artificial.

Nothing can compare to real smells like fresh bread, cut grass or bacon

[PLJPB]

Nothing can compare to real smells like fresh bread, cut grass or bacon

Bacon flavoured e-cigs. I think you may have a winner there!

[thenodrog]

Really? It's allowed me to kick the demon weed Gord after 37 years which can only be a good thing, no?

So now kick vaping otto. If you think I am unsympathetic then rem that I smoked for 30 years and giving up was hell but I did it with the help of patches when they first came out..... I'm not still wearing them!

As to anti social. You won't inhale it, you won't smell of it and it won't affect your health. Anti social, how so?

You do smell it! I bloody hate that strawberry stuff!

You'll find that the fruit flavours smell like they taste. Everyone I've come into contact with whilst vaping them comments how nice they smell.

Good so if I eat lots of fruit you wont mind me farting in your car?

Vaping should be viewed as an aid to stopping smoking and not as a cheaper replacement for the weak willed! If it's going to be that then it wants taxing to the same level that tobacco is taxed to keep peoples momentum going.

[otto man]

The lads who I get my e liquid from have just released Bazooka Joe flavour. Vape a bit of that and Bam! You're twelve years old again and back in shorts with scabby knees

[otto man]

otto man, on 14 Mar 2014 - 07:21 AM, said:

Really? It's allowed me to kick the demon weed Gord after 37 years which can only be a good thing, no?

So now kick vaping otto. If you think I am unsympathetic then rem that I smoked for 30 years and giving up was hell but I did it with the help of patches when they first came out..... I'm not still wearing them!

See Answer below

Why should I quit vaping? I enjoy it. Tell you what. I'll make you a deal. You knock the booze on the head and I'll do the same with the e cig ok? No? Didn't think so!


As to anti social. You won't inhale it, you won't smell of it and it won't affect your health. Anti social, how so?
You do smell it! I bloody hate that strawberry stuff!

Try reading the line above yours again

You'll find that the fruit flavours smell like they taste. Everyone I've come into contact with whilst vaping them comments how nice they smell.
Good so if I eat lots of fruit you wont mind me farting in your car?

Will your farts smell of fruit?

Vaping should be viewed as an aid to stopping smoking and not as a cheaper replacement for the weak willed! If it's going to be that then it wants taxing to the same level that tobacco is taxed to keep peoples momentum going.

Who died and left you in charge Jim Sorry, Gordon? Vaping can be and is seen as a pleasant pass time by many, including those who never smoked. Seems like you and Jimbo have far more in common than you like to think, including a desire for a totalitarian dictatorial state.

[Mike E]

Otto, I don't know a single person who vapes but hadn't smoked previously.

And they are (imo) absolutely an anti-smoking aid, simply because it's in the name: Electronic cigarettes.

I don't mind vapers as much as I do smokers (I'm chuffed for you stopping the weed, as it's a ghastly smell. Worse than stale booze imo), but they should be subject to a 'lesser' tax than smokers are.

A tax incentive to do something much less harmful, costs less anyway and is less offensive to others in terms of smells! And I wouldn't have to kick you out of my house every time you used it!

Win-win-win-win-win!!

[Al]

Whats smoking if not enforcing your will on other people? If every time I wanted a drink, I went up to the people around me in the pub, craned open their mouth and tipped a bit of my pint down it, wouldn't you describe that as enforcing my will? For the record, I didn't complain to the tattoo-sporting, metal-faced chav in front of me puffing smoke in my face cause it simply ain't worth the effort when you can move seats in the Darwen End. I'm hardly Adolf Hitler on these issues, I just don't see fit to try and justify anti-social behaviour, which is what smoking is.

Otto's post was extremely impressive but if it was recognised and proven beyond scientific doubt by all medical bodies, it wouldn't be banned anywhere. The fact is nothing has been totally proven on them yet, and just like smoking it could be years down the line that certain long-term effects start to be recognised. Personally I think the vapour smells like room thats had wet clothes going mouldy in it for a couple of days.

I'll have a bit of your pint anytime pal.

How many things that we eat, drink or take are recognised and proven beyond scientific doubt? By that score every thing would be banned. You without doubt enjoy enforcing your will on the public. You would save more lives campaigning against cars than harmless vapour.

[otto man]

Otto, I don't know a single person who vapes but hadn't smoked previously.

Where as I know many Mike

And they are (imo) absolutely an anti-smoking aid, simply because it's in the name: Electronic cigarettes.

In Vaping circles they're actualy known as Vape pens

I don't mind vapers as much as I do smokers (I'm chuffed for you stopping the weed, as it's a ghastly smell. Worse than stale booze imo), but they should be subject to a 'lesser' tax than smokers are.

Thanks for that. But please tell me why they should be taxed? Did you support the pie tax? Do you support the many other pernicious taxes currently applied in the uk?

A tax incentive to do something much less harmful, costs less anyway and is less offensive to others in terms of smells! And I wouldn't have to kick you out of my house every time you used it!

Win-win-win-win-win!!

[Ray-Von]

The lads who I get my e liquid from have just released Bazooka Joe flavour. Vape a bit of that and Bam! You're twelve years old again and back in shorts with scabby knees

Where's that from, out of interest?!

[jim mk2]

Mobile phones in public trains - particularly trains and buses. A device that could instantly block phones near you would be a surefire winner.