[Archived] Rovers £54.5m in debt.

[yoda]

Sorry mate.. and I forgot to mention we will loose a further 8m next season due to reduced parachute payments.. but if we get promoted we are fine (if the muppet crew keep funding us to cover debt).. or if we sell the club and write off debts (by some miracle) we are fine.. or someone challenges the league authorities.. or aliens invade, plague of locusts, end of the world lark..

Did I forget to also mention we don't have a finance director when we should be working out our finances for the January transfer window..

January transfer window ha ha ha ha ha ha

its like the little boy looking in the shop window at an all singing new bicycle and his dad saying you can look but you will never put your arse on it

[Veevs]

January transfer window ha ha ha ha ha ha

its like the little boy looking in the shop window at an all singing new bicycle and his dad saying you can look but you will never put your arse on it

Never underestimate the lunes from Pune..

[yoda]

Never underestimate the lunes from Pune..

they could @#/? up an iron ball without breaking sweat

[Bucksrover]

Veevs - you put together a good post, but people aren't done wollowing yet, hence the responses you got.

At a time when fans could help by flocking to ewood, most would rather moan and rant about past mistakes.

Venky's screwed up massively, time and time again and we could well be damaged beyond saving. But if they close down venkys london limited tomorrow rovers closes, if they call in their 30 million loan the club closes. So those 'lunes in pune' which every thread on this increasingly boring messageboard seems to be cursing, are the ones deciding when rovers isn't worth the grief.

I think this year has shown some sensible decisions by those at the club. I think this team will do ok, if we don't go pop of course. I think rovers fans could help the team do well, if they weren't so hooked on moaning and misery.

[Ozz]

Good grief.

[Parsonblue]

I am getting really annoyed at people just clutching at random figures..

Yes we lost 36m last year.. that does not mean we are loosing 100k a day today.. it covers allot of other expenses...

Lets go over some very simple figures for the simple people out there..

-8m - Rhodes

-3m - Best

-1.6m - Etuhu (yes we paid that much for him)

-2.3m - Bergs pay-off

-1m - Agent fees for kids from Portugal (Murphy etc not included here)

-6m (at least) - Extra in terms of wages (Givet, MGP, Murphy, Gomez, Olsson.. etc)

+10m - Player sales

========================

Total = -11.9m

That's before considering what we paid for for Appleton, Payoff for Kean, Payoff for Agnew, payoff for Murphy and Gomez (included in the figures as they are before July 1st), backroom staff (black et al)... and before considering the 1.4m profit in terms of player transfers this season..

I wonder how much we are also getting in terms of wages covered by insurance (Best, Rochina, Robinson, Etuhu all will fall under the serious injury bracket and probably 4 of our top 8 earners).. I wonder if we can even have insurance on Dunn these days.. his no claims discount must me heavy in the negative by now..

I am not saying things are wonderful, we are still stuffed but spouting extreme rubbish figures isn't going to help our cause long term (new owners for a start).. yes we are still loosing lots of money but not even close to the 100k per day hilarity you are talking about...

By my calculations we are shy 2-8m (yes a big range but who knows what has happened) of the FFP target of an 8m loss for the season (so a 10-16m PA loss per season).

The Times quote of 10m in fines IF we are promoted may be correct IF we are charged 100% for overall losses which will not happen as we are in profit in terms of player transfers (the key factor) THIS season (which is the only one that counts)... and there is the clause which talks about attempts to reduce wage bill which we MUST of covered by now (Givet, MGP, Gomes, Murphy, Olsson, Vukcevic, Formica, Bentley, Stewart, CKR, DJ, Jones, Rekik etc which all count)...

I think you are forgetting the running of the club in general. Have a look at all the players in the Under-21 squad and the Under-18 squad who are picking up wages. Have a look at the backroom staff for those areas of the club. Have a look at the expenses required to field both teams in national League competitions where there is no income.

Wages also include all the other people who work for the club at both Brockhall and Ewood. All that has to be paid for and gates of 12,000 aren't going to do it. The outgoings are more than the wages of the first team squad.

Debts can only continue to mount at an alarming rate when our outgoings each week are far, far greater than any incomings. I don't think we need fear frightening off a prospective new owner. Nobody in their right mind would want to buy into a club that is going to continue to lose serious money for the foreseeable future without any hope of reaching the golden land of the Premier League.

[Rover_Shaun]

Good grief.

Beggars belief

[broadsword]

And still people stick their heads in the sand

[Guest Norbert]

Let's be honest, it is likely that next summer will see one almighty financial meltdown, and if the club survives it'll be as a hollow ghost of what we knew. A Portsmouth situation awaits unless a real miracle happens. Still, we might be able to keep that run against Burnley going......

[ABBEY]

Veevs - you put together a good post, but people aren't done wollowing yet, hence the responses you got.

At a time when fans could help by flocking to ewood, most would rather moan and rant about past mistakes.

Venky's screwed up massively, time and time again and we could well be damaged beyond saving. But if they close down venkys london limited tomorrow rovers closes, if they call in their 30 million loan the club closes. So those 'lunes in pune' which every thread on this increasingly boring messageboard seems to be cursing, are the ones deciding when rovers isn't worth the grief.

I think this year has shown some sensible decisions by those at the club. I think this team will do ok, if we don't go pop of course. I think rovers fans could help the team do well, if they weren't so hooked on moaning and misery.

and people wonder why people don't post here anymore.

1.people are NOT wallowing ...they are frigging angry.

2.venkys have lots to answer for ...if it means ridding them I for one would rather watch a rovers be reborn ,even it means sunday morning football.

3. lunes in pune is exactly what they are... yours and rovers11 ,spark etc must be on the dippers payroll. Either that or your ghosts from the original Brockhall with the giblets you write.

4.Sensible? Aye aw reet...

5. The team will do ok? ....based on what?

6. So do you suggest fans just forgive and forget just like that?

7. The fat owd hag and her fat gangster sibling and the snivelling little turd have brought the misery and moaning . Do you actually know the feelings of local fans who don't go anymore?

Yesterday was the most boring atmosphere I think ive seen at ewood in at least 25 years.

VENKYS OUT.

[Sparky Marky]

Veevs - you put together a good post, but people aren't done wollowing yet, hence the responses you got.

At a time when fans could help by flocking to ewood.

I think this year has shown some sensible decisions by those at the club. I think this team will do ok, .

Complete guff.

[Paul Mellelieu]

Venkys Out is the right call. What goes on, on the pitch is almost irrelevant at the moment.

The campaign to get them out seems to have bitten the dust. Why?

[Sparky Marky]

You'd get banned if you suggested why...

[Veevs]

Veevs - you put together a good post, but people aren't done wollowing yet, hence the responses you got.

At a time when fans could help by flocking to ewood, most would rather moan and rant about past mistakes.

Venky's screwed up massively, time and time again and we could well be damaged beyond saving. But if they close down venkys london limited tomorrow rovers closes, if they call in their 30 million loan the club closes. So those 'lunes in pune' which every thread on this increasingly boring messageboard seems to be cursing, are the ones deciding when rovers isn't worth the grief.

I think this year has shown some sensible decisions by those at the club. I think this team will do ok, if we don't go pop of course. I think rovers fans could help the team do well, if they weren't so hooked on moaning and misery.

You didn't sort of notice a level of Irony in my post?.. OK so we are not loosing 36m per season, only circa 13m this season (and 21m next prior to any changes/transfers).. It is still fricken awful no matter which way you look at it especially when you consider we are being run by lunatics, have no finance director and will have to find a further 8m next season as our parachute payments get their first cut..

I think you are forgetting the running of the club in general. Have a look at all the players in the Under-21 squad and the Under-18 squad who are picking up wages. Have a look at the backroom staff for those areas of the club. Have a look at the expenses required to field both teams in national League competitions where there is no income.

Wages also include all the other people who work for the club at both Brockhall and Ewood. All that has to be paid for and gates of 12,000 aren't going to do it. The outgoings are more than the wages of the first team squad.

Debts can only continue to mount at an alarming rate when our outgoings each week are far, far greater than any incomings. I don't think we need fear frightening off a prospective new owner. Nobody in their right mind would want to buy into a club that is going to continue to lose serious money for the foreseeable future without any hope of reaching the golden land of the Premier League.

I am not forgetting how the club is run it is a shambles.. You just need to look at our board of directors which has gone from Finn, Williams, Goodwin.. to Shaw (Coar and Ghandi apparently non exec so don't count).. that's right a board of directors with only one exec director who is a failed shelf salesman.

Do you actually believe that the 60-70 coaches, staff and kids/youth players who work with the academy earn/cost more than the first team squad.. oh dear oh dear.. Jordan Rhodes alone is for example apparently on 2m a year (almost double the average premier league wage).. youth contracts are no where near professional contracts. For me the academy is the only thing worth squat at Rovers currently and the players who have come through the academy are testimony to that.. the sale of Jones alone has mean't the Academy is paying for itself and the staff there have hardly changed since the days prior to Venkys (yes there have been a few additions to get the academy upgraded but for me Phil is one of the few people I trust to be doing things right at Rovers and he isn't a Venkys hire).

A good indicator of just how much our first team squad earns is by how much our wage bill dropped when we got relegated (via relegation release clauses) it went from 42m pa to 32m pa and the biggest effected are always going to be the first team players.

You also mention gates.. you do realise that match day money makes up the smallest part of our income right?

Match day revenue - 4.3m (5.4m last premier league season) <-- surprisingly a small drop considering the massive drop in attendances and taken directly from the accounts

Commercial - 4.6m (7.6m last premier league season)

Media - 18m which includes 16m in parachute payments (41m last premier league season) <-- increasing with new TV deal but still marginal compared to EPL income

I would be a tiny bit more worried about that media income dropping by a further 8m next season.. which would mean if my figures are right we will be making a loss of circa 13m this season and 20m (and 28m two seasons later) next if nothing changes. Not to forget the other worry being FFP which unless we make 5-10m in savings or income for the second half of this season will mean an embargo, where do you think that money will come from??

Speaking of how the club is run am I the only person to notice that our top paid dictator (wild guess who it might be as we only really have one director atm) gained a 15% pay rise when we got relegated despite our overall wage bill dropping by 1/4.

And still people stick their heads in the sand

lol.. burying my head in the sand would be ignoring minor facts like us sacking multiple managers, reducing wage bills or spending 15m on players last season.

Just trying to put a more realistic spin on our situation rather than grabbing pie in the sky figures and over reacting.. it's bad enough as it is.

Show me how you came up with the 100k a day losses.. oh wait did you take last seasons losses and divide them by 365..?

Venkys Out is the right call. What goes on, on the pitch is almost irrelevant at the moment.

The campaign to get them out seems to have bitten the dust. Why?

I think people have come to the realisation that things really are that bad at the moment, who else but a bunch of lunatics would purchase and fund a company that is going no where and loosing vast sums of money per year... ok so we are not loosing as much as last season but it is still utterly unsustainable.. the FFP rules are now going to count against us dramatically as we can no longer get any form of sugar daddy to fix the situation (not that it was ever likely), the only way someone coming in can fix things is to literally sell our assets to get us to a sustainable level (by further reducing the first team wage bill by near 50% to meet income v expenditure) while providing some kind of extra income from player sales.

One thing is certain, Venkys have made such a hash of things it is unrealistic now for even the Rovers Trust to take on a loss making company of our scale with debts of 60m plus.

[Veevs]

*sigh* can't help but get the picture of shaw making all the exec decisions at Rovers out of my head.. can just imagine him now looking in the mirror.. "First item on the agenda for the quarterly board meeting.. To give the MD another massive pay rise".. "Derek what do you think?".. "Sounds like a plan to me Mr Shaw, easily justifiable as we have just saved a fortune in wages now that pesky finance director has gone".. "oooh look isn't that a pretty shelf, wonder which company installed that"

Anyone ever read.. this article.. http://www.employmentcasesupdate.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed16253 nice little ditty on the shelf salesman's 2.25m balls up.. great little part at section 23 which clearly states.. Shaw posted the press statement including the wording "Additionally the owners would like to state that there is no investigation into this matter with regard to managing director Derek Shaw who continues to have their complete backing and support." and then "which it is contended was posted on the direction of Mr. Shaw without the permission of the Owners or any of them, and was not removed thereafter (and in the event not until the late afternoon of 24th April 2013) because Mr Shaw failed and refused to instruct Blackburn staff to do so." In simple terms Shaw actually posted a press statement about himself.

Some other quotes from it.. "There was a space for signature by another director but in fact no other director signed the document." "Mrs Silk says in her statement that she was instructed by Mr. Shaw to draw up the offer letter "one evening after office hours …" and that Mr Shaw passed to her a note (which is exhibited) that he told her contained the terms he wanted included."..

All in all the article highlights just how inept management at the club was/is and the chief culprit is the last man standing...... Shebby, Agnew, Ghandi, Desai et al didn't see the contract update done the night before Berg signed which was updated by Silk (who also did not sign it) on the orders of Shaw via a note passed after hours.. then the club publically in a court case say the MD didn't have the power to amend a contract lol

[Stuart]

Veevs, it's 'losing' not 'loosing'. I've tried to let it go, and I know the young 'uns complain about spelling and grammar police, but you've written it several times now and it's distracting.

[Parsonblue]

The bottom line Veevs is that the club is losing money at every level at a rate that is unsustainable. The only people responsible for this are residing in Pune. Shaw is merely another symptom of their mismanagement of the club. The truth of the matter is that they bought into something they didn't understand and have shown no inclination to get to grips with the situation. The fact that Shaw is still in place and still running things shows just how inept our owners are. They complain about him in court and then are happy to allow him to continue running the club. Shaw is not the real culprit of our downfall. The real culprits are Desai and her clan who have destroyed our club and one shudders to think what will be left when they eventually decide to find another toy to play with and break.

[Athlete]

it has gone too far even promotion may not save us all it would do is buy us some time were that far gone even going up would give us a £10 mill fine under Fair play regs.....

IMO These are venkys options :

1. put cash in quick and punt for promotion and recoup what they can when we go up - Can anyone see that happening ? me neither

2 . sell off what they can and admin us before the end of the season - They're that stupid they'll wait till the end of may

3 . Hang on as we are and wait till the End of may and get the last big parachute payment - but seeing as by the we'll be even more in the mire that doesn't make sense ( but nothing Venkys ever have done made sense )

I read an article a few weeks back ( can't find it now think it was in one of economy mags ) that the club needs £15 mill injecting to make it to the end of the season - can anyone realistically see venkys doing this ??? well not with their own cash I can't so it will be another loan....

oh and BTW if anyone can see that side pushing for promotion please let me know where your looking....at the very very best with Rochina playing as Messi Rhodes as Ronaldo , etc , etc we'd make the play offs we cant seem to get a run going it's one step forwards 2 backwards in terms of results

[Al]

Veevs, it's 'losing' not 'loosing'. I've tried to let it go, and I know the young 'uns complain about spelling and grammar police, but you've written it several times now and it's distracting.

You are right to point it out. It's irritating and if I see "of" instead of "have" once more or "stricker" instead of "striker" I may burst into tears.

[OJRovers]

Veevs, the £2m a month is CASH not profit, I think it's pretty accurate and I have done the sums like you have. For instance you haven't included the £5m owed to Huddersfield in summer or that the club has taken early payment of the parachute payments so that won't be coming in.

[tomphil]

Veevs, the £2m a month is CASH not profit, I think it's pretty accurate and I have done the sums like you have. For instance you haven't included the £5m owed to Huddersfield in summer or that the club has taken early payment of the parachute payments so that won't be coming in.

Dont worry Balaji flies qualified mechanics from all over the world to service each of his prestige car collection. Maybe he's getting em ready to sell.

[FGS5635]

Dont worry Balaji flies qualified mechanics from all over the world to service each of his prestige car collection. Maybe he's getting em ready to sell.

Whats the going rate for an imported mechanic? How many has he got to sell?

[Veevs]

Veevs, it's 'losing' not 'loosing'. I've tried to let it go, and I know the young 'uns complain about spelling and grammar police, but you've written it several times now and it's distracting.

Sorry I do it all the time, my English education was utterly trashed as a kid due to dyslexia (thank god for spellchecker) and a drunk high school English teacher (hilarious for a well regarded RC school), kinda of funny as I ended up senior manager in numerous companies and read a book a week (you would think that part would help).

Veevs, the £2m a month is CASH not profit, I think it's pretty accurate and I have done the sums like you have. For instance you haven't included the £5m owed to Huddersfield in summer or that the club has taken early payment of the parachute payments so that won't be coming in.

No didn't miss the figure for Rhodes, we gained 10.5m from player sales (Bunn, Nzonzi, Yakuba and Jnr) but only received 5.5m straight away, and we spent 15m on players, of which only 11m was paid straight away as such both sets of figures cancel each other out.

The early parachute payments part is incorrect as the accounts do not reflect this at all (they do show the media income of 18m which covers the 16m in parachute payments plus the standard 2m media income from the championship), according to the court reports (in relation to Berg) we did ask for early payment (Late April 2013) of the second parachute payment however this money was not included within the yearly financials ending June 2013 as such it is pretty certain that these funds where not received nor included in last years financials which this thread is about.

Also worth noting is that despite what others have said, the payoffs for Murphy and Gomes are all included within the accounts however it is unclear if the full Berg payoff was included.

[awhom111]

Veevs,

Good start on trying to figure out our financial situation for this season. It looks like you have mixed some accounting concepts in some places though. Our loss will be determined by financial accounting, so for example, as long as Rhodes stays for the season the expenses related to him this season will be the same amount as he contributed to last season's loss.

May I ask how you are making some of your projections? I tried a little bit of going through the figures to try to make a reasonable projection and I was not getting anything that I was really comfortable with.

[Blue blood]

Veevs - you put together a good post, but people aren't done wollowing yet, hence the responses you got.

At a time when fans could help by flocking to ewood, most would rather moan and rant about past mistakes.

Venky's screwed up massively, time and time again and we could well be damaged beyond saving. But if they close down venkys london limited tomorrow rovers closes, if they call in their 30 million loan the club closes. So those 'lunes in pune' which every thread on this increasingly boring messageboard seems to be cursing, are the ones deciding when rovers isn't worth the grief.

I think this year has shown some sensible decisions by those at the club. I think this team will do ok, if we don't go pop of course. I think rovers fans could help the team do well, if they weren't so hooked on moaning and misery.

Sensible decisions?!?!? So from the horse's mouth it's promotion or bust and their sensible decisions are to what:

1) Appoint a completely rookie manager to get them promoted. (As the last 3 rookie managers with no experience worked so well.)

2) Gave this manager no support in transfer dealings whatsoever - no DOF, poor administrative support (we apparently couldn't get a striker in for the Reading game due to not getting the paperwork done) and no finances/transfer budget. Appreciate we've not got many but if it's bust or promotion then surely we could have scraped together something.

3) Have no sorted club infrastructure - minor details like finance director and the like. Just Shaw doing it all...

Blimey if that's their sensible decisions in response to a crisis I wonder how on earth they haven't run every other business they've touched into the ground...