[Archived] Rovers £54.5m in debt.

[Guest Norbert]

I wish we could take the Raos and their 'advisors' with us if it happens.

[thenodrog]

I think any serious investors will be waiting for the club to go into administration before attempting to take over the reigns.

Why would anyone pay xx millions for a club that's looking increasing likely to go bust at any time.

Indeed Gav. Daft anyone making a bid and much better to just wait around and buy the club from the Receivers. That was a point I made 2-3 years ago when the clueless buggers set about destroying or ridding the club of all that was good. Doesn't make it any easier to take but our current situation was predicted by quite a few others too. Can you rem all the flack from so many myopic individuals who insisted that people protesting about the Venkys management were being counter productive?

Good point, but the shroud of secrecy means anyone with any sense cannot get a semblance of anything from Loonland. So we are, in the words of , Dermot O'Leary, deadlock!

Only until the cheques begin to bounce.

[Leonard Venkhater]

I don't want this to sound like a disguised dig at those disgruntled Rovers fans who feel they can no longet attend because of everything which has happened. But now is the time Rovers fans need to step up the PR. Its imperative we are viewed as a loyal, dedicated and vociferous fan base. The spotlight will be on us now as the next Leeds or Portsmouth. The popular consensus needs to be one of pity towards us fans. Not just the odd rare article where the journalist has bothered to do his research and report the truth. The reflex reaction towards Rovers needs to be one of sorrow. I'd wager it isn't that at present due to the inaccurate reports we endured under Kean. I'd urge Rovers fans to attend in their thousands and lift the roof off every home match. As much as it may go against every fibre in your body to do so.

Our current owners are on borrowed time. We are in the shop window now. Albeit we might have to plummet further before we see a change in ownership.

Points well made. It was never the fans' fault last time, but the media were biased and selective.

We know they chose to portray " an aggressive, uncouth, angry, ugly group, baying at innocent, polite, isolated, mild mannered Scotsman standing alone at the dug out." It worked. That is the distorted picture I have spent many occasions challenging with supporters of other teams.

You are right. It is almost as if we, the fans, have to have our own media strategy, one that forces the media to see a group that is loyal and supportive of Bowyer and the players, whilst objecting to the disgraceful abuse by so called owners. The question is how to put across both aspects, when the fans are actually divided....Discuss...

[thenodrog]

It's simply not sustainable - I can't see how we can avoid administration unless promoted?

Proof that it doesn't need a long convoluting post to make complete sense.

Lets hear from those who say that we are doomed without Venkys and that they have finally shown signs of learning from their mistakes.

Me. I hated the sight and actions of the Venkys from the start, in fact I doubt anyone could abhor them more but once we fell off the Prem gravy train they became completely necessary. If they had withdrawn their funding we'd already have the closed sign on the door at Ewood.

[patrickvalery]

Points well made. It was never the fans' fault last time, but the media were biased and selective.

We know they chose to portray " an aggressive, uncouth, angry, ugly group, baying at innocent, polite, isolated, mild mannered Scotsman standing alone at the dug out." It worked. That is the distorted picture I have spent many occasions challenging with supporters of other teams.

You are right. It is almost as if we, the fans, have to have our own media strategy, one that forces the media to see a group that is loyal and supportive of Bowyer and the players, whilst objecting to the disgraceful abuse by so called owners. The question is how to put across both aspects, when the fans are actually divided....Discuss...

I'm glad someone sees my point and it wasnt construed as a dig at rovers fans.

Personally speaking id say the supporters trust would have missed a trick if they didnt issue a statement explaining how Rovers fans are feeling devastated by the news but they refuse to let it ruin a season showing signs of promise and we want our inexperienced manager to know he has the unreserved support of every fan. We are a founder memeber of the football league and we won't allow the Blackburn Rovers story to end here.

[Waggy76]

Proof that it doesn't need a long convoluting post to make complete sense.

Me. I hated the sight and actions of the Venkys from the start, in fact I doubt anyone could abhor them more but once we fell off the Prem gravy train they became completely necessary. If they had withdrawn their funding we'd already have the closed sign on the door at Ewood.

I doubt that , which was the last football club to go to the wall ?

[GanG2245]

I doubt that , which was the last football club to go to the wall ?

hinckley utd . last month

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24429186

[thenodrog]

As much as we all despise his input, I still can't accept that the trustees acted in the manner that JW intended them to do. Sorry for resurrecting an old story here, but I'm not convinced that they followed through Jack Walkers true wishes.

They did for 10 years Den. Quite right to get rid too cos the day would come when they had to. Be daft to sell the family silver for something that the couple of individuals who made the decisions detested. Jack Walker chucking money in was a false situation, BRFC has been a complete loss making enterprise virtually all our lives.

4. They are writing the losses off because they will be tax deductible.

Do they have tax in India cos they don't in Pakistan.

[thenodrog]

Promotion - which I believe to be highly unlikely - will only delay matters for a year or two because we will only be a one season wonder in the top flight. With these sort of debts we would be unable to invest in the quality of player to keep us up.

With a business like Karl Oyston that 100m would be easliy enough to ensure our survival and continuation as a lower league club. With the Venkys still at the helm it would just be a signal to every agent, every Carlos Kickaball and every other footballing n'er do well to begin another feeding frenzy.

[Majiball]

So we're going the way of their Bollywood purchase, shock horror....

Would we not just be better off using the trust money to hire a hitman?

[thenodrog]

Not a chance I'd follow a club with that name, sounds too much like a club created by a bunch of self indulgent United fans.

You could always watch Clitheroe.

[onlyonejackwalker]

They did for 10 years Den. Quite right to get rid too cos the day would come when they had to. Be daft to sell the family silver for something that the couple of individuals who made the decisions detested. Jack Walker chucking money in was a false situation, BRFC has been a complete loss making enterprise virtually all our lives.

Do they have tax in India cos they don't in Pakistan.

A few ifs and buts here, but imagine owning a business turning over 40+ million, that lost circa 3 million a year. Deciding you wanted rid and selling it on.

But if you had kept the business at its level when sold, continued funding the yearly losses and waited patiently for three years only, the business would now be turning over circa 100+ million.

With operating costs around the 60 million mark and income over 100 million, the Rovers would have been a very attractive business for someone and I bet there are people within that family a tad frustrated they sold when they did.

[thenodrog]

From being championed as a financial role model of a club under the careful ownership of Jack Walker to the very probable impending ruination under the clueless and confused.com of Pune...

Certain individuals should be brought in front of a court of law and be made accountable for what has happened.

The fans will just be left to pick up the debris after these Ham Shankers have finished with us.

Eh? Poor performance in business is not illegal. The only likely action will be from HMRC.

[because of boxing day]

Hope plans are well advanced to find the £9.6m to pay deferred transfer fees over next 12 months!!

[JAL]

The time to worry is when creditors stop being paid, then Administration will come a reality.

If HMRC are investigating the club (as has been suggested) then the prospect of a winding-up petition is very real.

This happened to Stanley a few years ago, until Ilias Khan stepped in at the last minute. Not paying the HMRC is the quickest road to liquidation.

Would it be better for HMRC to close the club and be the main creditor as opposed to an Indian bank ?

Surely from Blackburn's point of view it would be better for the government to have full control over everything Blackburn Rovers rather than a couple of Indian shyster banks.

[Brfcrule1]

The only solution I can see is for the owners to find a very wealthy buyer who wants a football club and has the capacity to lose 50, 60 or 70 million without blinking. Somehow I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon.

How can that happen under the FFP rules?

Toogs quite simply it would not be a problem for owners with a bit of common sense they would probably have the sense to expose a loophole and somehow by hook or crook get money into the club e.g. like the watford situation with free transfers & look into naming rights etc... unfortunately associating Venkys with having any common sense would be a novel thought. I do believe what Anna the young journalist says in her recent blog is completely right whatever has happened in the past has gone we can't change the past but we can affect the future GB is not like any of his predecessors he has the clubs best interests at heart at the moment he is trying his absolute best and as he says the 12th man can really inspire these players to get into the play-offs and possibly beyond I come up every home game from London soon to be re-located fans in Blackburn need to put what has happened in the past and be that 12th man. By the way yesterday saw the game from the legends lounge it was really good. However looking objectively at the bigger picture I do think Venkys need to get a grip 136% wage to turnover ratio is completely unsustainable I do think they need to hold their hands up admit they have made mistakes and appoint someone who knows how to run a club as the longer they continue to leave things as they are the more damaging it will be later personally I believe they should go cap in hand to JW apologise for the way they treated him and beg him to come back and attempt to sort out the mess & get rid of Shelfy who is stealing a living for being plain incompetent. I do also agree the JW Trustees silence in this matter is baffling.

[Dunnfc]

Damaging and worrying but remember the losses account for players and staff over the last 12 months and the subsequent compensation packages agreed and not what we are operating now so the 136% turnover figure is a little misleading to the true value of turnover today.

54.5 million in debt i don't think we even have the assets which would amount to that figure, i found it slightly worrying that we are funded by a high interest overdraft which expired on September 2013 and Derek Shaw is hoping a new agreement can be met, in the meantime does that mean the current losses each month are being directly funded by the Wankeys? If so bad news, expect the firesale off any silver left in January.

[Speedie Dived]

Hope plans are well advanced to find the £9.6m to pay deferred transfer fees over next 12 months!!

It's no secret in football circles that Rovers are trying to off load Rhodes

[pick32]

Venkys have 3 options,

1. Fire sale, which might stabilise the club but will take years to repay debt and possibly lead I relegation.

2. Invest in January and try and get promotion, we are currently 4 points outside the play offs and have had horrendous luck with injuries.

3. Sell up, but with this amount of debt they would have to take a loss.

But they will probably carry on as usual and plunge the club into more and more debt until administration hits us.

[cesus]

Damaging and worrying but remember the losses account for players and staff over the last 12 months and the subsequent compensation packages agreed and not what we are operating now so the 136% turnover figure is a little misleading to the true value of turnover today.

54.5 million in debt i don't think we even have the assets which would amount to that figure, i found it slightly worrying that we are funded by a high interest overdraft which expired on September 2013 and Derek Shaw is hoping a new agreement can be met, in the meantime does that mean the current losses each month are being directly funded by the Wankeys? If so bad news, expect the firesale off any silver left in January.

The way I read the wording by the clown in the report was that the agreement with the bank of India ended on 30/9/13, he also said words along the lines of Venkys would fund the club directly if a new agreement couldn't be met. That's the way I read it anyway. Worrying, worrying times!

[watford-rover]

if i was venkys, then would it not make sense to find a sponsor for ewood park? they have a multi billion pound turnover a year they must have a lot of friends with similar wealth they can lean on to say "you sponsor Ewood for £80million over 2 years and ill give you the cash for it."

Would that still infringe on FFP?

I would rather Ewood was called Air India Arena or whatever than a transfer embargo, monster fine and administration.

[Amo]

Venkys have 3 options,

1. Fire sale, which might stabilise the club but will take years to repay debt and possibly lead I relegation.

2. Invest in January and try and get promotion, we are currently 4 points outside the play offs and have had horrendous luck with injuries.

3. Sell up, but with this amount of debt they would have to take a loss.

But they will probably carry on as usual and plunge the club into more and more debt until administration hits us.

If I was Venky's, I'd be looking at option 2. The club's already mired in the red, what's a few more million? With the right investment, we could achieve promotion and all of the debt would be instantly wiped out. They aren't going to find any serious buyers out there who will help recoup their losses, and there's no way asset-stripping our squad will bring home the bacon, and as you already said it will see us relegated. Of course, the problem with 'option 2' is that the reason we're in this state in the first place is because of Venky's "good intentions".

[Roverthechimp]

Just a little perspective: the club already had 20 million debt at the time of the ownership transfer. A number of "payoffs" were purposely included in time to be included in the accounts in order for this years and next years accounts to look slightly better. Wages last year were down to 35 million - expect 25 this year and 15 - 20 next year (dunn, robinson, pedersen gone and rhodes/campbell/best/dann sold/released next summer if (when) we aren't promoted).

Long term i think there is the possibility to hit a neutral point but to repay the debt will require promotion and the huge question is how we are to meet the 18 - 20 million that is due within the next 12 months (on top of eventuell losses this season).

[Stuart]

It's no secret in football circles that Rovers are trying to off load Rhodes

Sickening. Lose Rhodes and it's curtains.

January will tell us a lot about where we will likely be come the end of the season. A fire sale means Venkys cutting their losses before they bazz off for good. Ride through it with a couple of loanees and they are still up for promotion.

Oddly, the comments in the accounts about Venkys continuing to support the club, and promotion being a must, aren't corroborated by any sane view of the numbers. Which is it Delboy? Are we still aiming for promotion, or are player sales going to provide the income?

Why do these stories always come out after a win to bring everyone down? Are we not allowed to have any happiness?

Even more galling, and ironic, is that the form and approach of the hilltrolls down the road is probably being cited as an example of how a club can compete on a shoestring. For me, moreso than usual, Bumley (and to an extent Blackpool) are a freak of a team. Everyone else around them has PL income and/or PL players, and will fall foul of FFP without imminent promotion, yet the Dingles are up there, defying gravity. Just think... Bumley as any kind of role model for us. It's enough to make you sick. Let's hope their luck runs out soon.

I can't help too but think of the money that Venkys have spunked away during the last three years, and if they'd have given just HALF of that to Williams and Allardyce. Makes you weep.

[broadsword]

There's no possibility of hitting a zero point. Turnover will keep falling faster than costs can be cut. In turn, cutting costs helps to guarantee a decrease in future turnover.

It.'s a tailspin venky's won't get out of since they don't have enough liquidity to provide the cash injection required to pull us out of it.

I think it's inevitable things willl come to a head next summer. If we somehow survive that then we'll have a transfer embargo to labour under as well as lower parachute payments. We'll be putting our youth team out.

It will need a combination of Houdini, red Adair and midas to sort this pretty little mess out