[Archived] Rovers £54.5m in debt.

[West Yorks Rover]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBiLNN1NhQ

'only'? Now that is a sign of the times.

If your guess is accurate then it's more pertinant to ask 'who pays it'? I'd estimate that that figure is roughly equal to the combined income from ST sales for the entire Division! No good fining people with fines above their ability to pay.

Not sure whether my guess is accurate or not, thank god they are not docking points, we really

would be knackered then.

[West Yorks Rover]

£100m fines?? Not a chance.

If you are right then they are simply into closing clubs down.

Looking at the previous explanations of FFP our fine could easily be £20m, I would imagine we would

easily double any other clubs loss, but with the likes of Bolton, Leicester, Forest and plenty of others it soon

mounts up.

The whole thing is bloody ridiculous !

[thenodrog]

Looking at the previous explanations of FFP our fine could easily be £20m, I would imagine we would

easily double any other clubs loss, but with the likes of Bolton, Leicester, Forest and plenty of others it soon

mounts up.

The whole thing is bloody ridiculous!

One might form the opinion that that sentence applies to English football in general and that is why they are bringing FFP in!

btw.... Me for one.

[OJRovers]

There's no chance they can have half the league on transfer embargoes and with big fines (which only make it worse), no chance this will stand up and be implemented. It will only take a few clubs to take it to court for it to be delayed a few years.

[West Yorks Rover]

There's no chance they can have half the league on transfer embargoes and with big fines (which only make it worse), no chance this will stand up and be implemented. It will only take a few clubs to take it to court for it to be delayed a few years.

Good idea ! we could send Lofty to the European Court, did a great job last time !

[West Yorks Rover]

One might form the opinion that that sentence applies to English football in general and that is why they are bringing FFP in!

btw.... Me for one.

What I'd like to see is a wages cap of say £10m for all Championship clubs ,on relegation from the Prem all players would be allowed to

leave with one years salary or have their wages reduced to suit the Championship budget.

If they had signed a 3 year deal it would be ' hard luck pal you got us relegated '

Never going to happen though !

[Paul]

As far as I can see it's simply promotion or bust. Venkys know they have a chance to get their money back via promotion. It's a one season gamble which from their view is probably worthwhile.

No other way out if this. Sell whatever or whoever you want it has no real impact. Rhodes £10m if we are very, very lucky. It's p1ssing in the wind

[Stuart]

I just can't see them spending, Paul.

[AggyBlue]

£100m fines?? Not a chance.

If you are right then they are simply into closing clubs down.

It's been suggested for years we have too many professional clubs in this country.

This is a sure fire way to reduce the numbers and it seems we are near the top of the list.

[West Yorks Rover]

I just can't see them spending, Paul.

They probably won't, but it would be certainly worth throwing a couple of million on loan wages in Jan

If we are in the top six at ChrIstmas, one last throw of the dice.

They probably won't, but it would be certainly worth throwing a couple of million on loan wages in Jan

If we are in the top six at ChrIstmas, one last throw of the dice.

Mind you would need to ensure we bring in a couple of class players with the right qualities, hardworking pros etc.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Its surprising how depressing this news is when it shouldn't be depressing at all because it should be totally expected. Some interpreted Venkys recent low-key approach and the halt of their moronic meddling as a sign that they'd significantly changed for the better, while I think a lot of the rest of us secretly allowed ourselves to hope that was the case. Well its starting to look again like its not the case at all. The losses are unavoidable, the increased debt piled on the club is, and is the clearest sign yet that Venkys have no wish to stand by the club.

I agree with the others saying it could be success or bust now. But unfortunately the only realistic chance of success in my opinion was last season when we had the players but it was ruined by a ridiculous procession of rubbish managers. Now I just don't think we have the players, whoever is the manager.

[McClarky]

If they delayed FFP it would just mean clubs like Rovers would continue racking up huge debts and basically cheating by paying far more for players and in wages than they can afford. This situation has got to be brought under control and some short term pain for a few badly run cubs is a small price to

pay.

[Proudtobeblue&white]

Every club has known this was coming.....still the Loons were sold a pup, dream of vast riches. Instead those vast riches went to the "advisors & Klingons". Philip seems to say it was betting - have the Loons made money, or others?

Promotion means vast riches for a year, and the fines are just a reduction in those riches, so promotion must be the preferred option.

Kamy states they might seriously think of what if we don't go up? Just walk? We all agree it would have to be a very rich backer to pay them out. Do they cut their losses? None of this is attractive, but I say again, they have to supplement the squad if they want the prize. They are between a rock and a hard place of their own making. We are just the sorry souls who have to witness the demise, and can do Kean all about it but turn up, or not, as the case may be. Sad beyond description.

[broadsword]

this all feels like a death by a thousand cuts

[Parsonblue]

There's no chance they can have half the league on transfer embargoes and with big fines (which only make it worse), no chance this will stand up and be implemented. It will only take a few clubs to take it to court for it to be delayed a few years.

It has already been imposed on clubs in Leagues One and Two. A number of those clubs have suffered embargoes. I'm not sure how the chairmen take this to court as it was THEIR decision to introduce this system into the Football League. They could have kicked it out at the Football League AGM a couple of years ago but they voted it for it rather than rejecting it. They have simply got the system they wanted.

[Rover_Shaun]

Top 6 at Christmas? Do thoughts like that STILL exist!

[allan]

I have not seen the Group accounts (ie the aggregate of Venkys London and BRFC plc0 but it seems to me that the £35m being reported as "owed to Venkys" is actually represented by share capital in the parent company (of which there is £66m). That being so this is a loan that Venkys can recover only by means of a capital reduction in Venkys London (which would not be allowed because they could not give the required statutory declaration of solvency) or on a liquidation of both Venkys London and BRFC plc. This is NOT the same as if Venkys had put a loan direct into either BRFC plc or Venkys London. Funds that are put in as share capital are a much more secure source of funding. You simply cannot look at the subsidiary company without taking account of its financial relationship with the parent. Until I have seen the Group accounts I will not go into melt-down panic like it seems everybody else on this site.

[West Yorks Rover]

Top 6 at Christmas? Do thoughts like that STILL exist!

Leicester, QPR, should be top 2

Burnley doing brilliantly, they may last out top 6 - who knows ?

The rest are all pretty average, which their recent results show.

It could happen, but we would need a lot of luck with injuries and probably a couple of decent loanees, it's a very average league !

Rochina, Dunny and Evans are a real miss atm.

[Stuart]

.

[OJRovers]

I have not seen the Group accounts (ie the aggregate of Venkys London and BRFC plc0 but it seems to me that the £35m being reported as "owed to Venkys" is actually represented by share capital in the parent company (of which there is £66m). That being so this is a loan that Venkys can recover only by means of a capital reduction in Venkys London (which would not be allowed because they could not give the required statutory declaration of solvency) or on a liquidation of both Venkys London and BRFC plc. This is NOT the same as if Venkys had put a loan direct into either BRFC plc or Venkys London. Funds that are put in as share capital are a much more secure source of funding. You simply cannot look at the subsidiary company without taking account of its financial relationship with the parent. Until I have seen the Group accounts I will not go into melt-down panic like it seems everybody else on this site.

I think you are right about the £36m, the more serious worry is that this is going up by c£2m a month - they could easily just stop putting more cash in and the lights would be out before the week is over. FFP or no FFP.

[thenodrog]

What I'd like to see is a wages cap of say £10m for all Championship clubs ,on relegation from the Prem all players would be allowed to

leave with one years salary or have their wages reduced to suit the Championship budget.

If they had signed a 3 year deal it would be ' hard luck pal you got us relegated '

Never going to happen though !

Never say never.

btw all you techies.... Can we do an active debt clock in the corner of the page? Like the UK debt clock on t'internet?

[awhom111]

To clarify on the fines for FFP. Only the three promoted clubs would be subject to the fine if are not in compliance, so it should be a lot less than 100 million. The fines are supposed to be spread among the clubs that meet the requirements.

I would not be surprised if a healthy number of clubs work themselves into compliance by this season. I would suspect that teams have tried to push losses back to prior years as much as possible and have tried to be more conservative with transfer fees. That is why I suspect our own loss will end up less than for 2012-13.

[patrickvalery]

Just out of interest, how would a transfer embargo hit us in terms of bringing in youth players? The fact we achieved category 1 status fir our academy means we can cherry pick other clubs young players and pay nominal fees for them right? However, does the embargo prevent us from doing this? I only ask as there was some rule implemented which said clubs don't have to register players under 21 in their 25 man squad or something such like. Would this mean players under this age don't count as full transfers if they join the club on youth contracts? If that were the case we could still collect a good standard of young players and then once they're through the door we'd be free to offer them full contracts.

Could anyone clear this up for me?

[Stuart]

Just out of interest, how would a transfer embargo hit us in terms of bringing in youth players? The fact we achieved category 1 status fir our academy means we can cherry pick other clubs young players and pay nominal fees for them right? However, does the embargo prevent us from doing this? I only ask as there was some rule implemented which said clubs don't have to register players under 21 in their 25 man squad or something such like. Would this mean players under this age don't count as full transfers if they join the club on youth contracts? If that were the case we could still collect a good standard of young players and then once they're through the door we'd be free to offer them full contracts.

Could anyone clear this up for me?

I too await a definitive answer but I would have thought that the embargo would prevent the bit in bold.

This in itself would put players off joining if they couldn't be offered a playing contract.

[patrickvalery]

I too await a definitive answer but I would have thought that the embargo would prevent the bit in bold.

This in itself would put players off joining if they couldn't be offered a playing contract.

I can't see how it could Stuart. The embargo can surely only prevent us signing players. But it can't dictate what we offer existing staff. I'd worry more about us being able to sign the youngsters in the first place.

I'm not offering it up as a solution. Just musing whether this is going to be the clubs approach from here on in. They spent good money to get category one status and they have had their fingers burnt signing over the hill players on fat contracts. Maybe the idea is to now go with youth. OK this would be an absolute extreme to playing youth, but with Bowyers background and the fact the owners have received their biggest income through sales of Jones, Olsson and Hoilett, maybe they see this as the best way forward.

Just a thought.