[Archived] Financial Fair Play

[Paul]

I thought there was a topic on this but can't find one. Apologies if I've missed it. The Mail Online is reporting QPR face potential fines of £62m under FFP.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2508505/QPR-face-record-fine-losing-80million.html

I'm not at all up to speed with FFP but using the same rule of thumb applied to QPR Rovers would face a fine of +/- £20m if promoted.

I've long argued the influence of TV and sponsorship monies have changed our game forever and overall this has been to the detriment of the sport. So one might expect me to be a fan of FFP. For the life of me I cannot see how fining a club £60m and giving the money to charity in anyway improves the game or solves a problem. We already have approximately 85% of TV money going out of the game in player wages and transfers - there was a time when transfer money moved around the game with a very positive trickle down effect.

I've gained the impression the PL don't give a damn over a club's situation once that club is no longer a PL member. Equally once in the PL how is the FL going to have a mandate to impose let alone collect a fine from QPR or any club?

I suspect QPR will shrug its shoulders, give the FL the finger and simply say " Go on, sue the club." Test cases will take years to run through the courts, the likes of Tony Fernandez won't hand over £60m when investing in a sharp lawyer will be cheaper.

On the basis of the very little I've read in recent weeks FFP can't work and can only contribute to football's collective financial irresponsibility. The PL have flushed cash down the toilet for 20 years and looks like the FL are playing catch up.

If clubs have to be fined at least invest that money in grassroots football.

[The Rover of Finland]

FFP will never see daylight. Clubs would have done work for it already. Lawyers will be more richer.

[Parsonblue]

FFP will never see daylight. Clubs would have done work for it already. Lawyers will be more richer.

Its already been operating in the Football League for a couple of years in Leagues One and Two. It's just that it is about to be introduced to the Championship that it is now causing an issue for some clubs but certainly not all clubs.

[Stuart]

What's hardest to take is that FFP seems squarely aimed at clubs like Rovers. Those who have had recent success beyond their natural means, regardless of he owner's intentions. It gives a thumbs down to the Walkers and a shrug of its shoulders to the Raos.

Jack Walker invested in his home town team, yada-yada, but he also brought the punters through the door. Jack's 'dream' then became for Rovers to "wash its own face" but was this ever really feasible? Jack didn't manage it. The money required to bring in Top 4 players even then wasn't going to be supplied by the fan base on its own.

I guess we needed to take sponsorship and the commercial side of the business to the next level but relegation in 99 was probably what did for us. Jack's legacy bouyed us back up and with the Trust propping us up financially, we pushed the wage:turnover ratio as far as we dared, bringing in good managers and astute signings - particularly with Souness and Hughes.

Now that all that was @#/? away, yada-yada, we are in no position as a club (town?) to sustain a promotion chasing Championship club with our fanbase/sponsorship. Plus with the racist idiots now starting to malign the club, like a melanoma, the chances of engaging the local ethnic community diminishes, as does a large potential improvement to long term support to the club.

I wonder how a club like Swansea would have managed had they not got promoted at just the right time? They are held up as an example of how it can be done. I'd argue it's more of an example of how things were possible once.

If FFP is not legally swept away Bosman style then we are in trouble, and even if it is, we will be a floundering Championship club. At best.

[Ozz]

There is some Rovers specific reporting on FFP in here.

http://twohundredpercent.net/?p=24346

[thenodrog]

What's hardest to take is that FFP seems squarely aimed at clubs like Rovers. Those who have had recent success beyond their natural means, regardless of he owner's intentions. It gives a thumbs down to the Walkers and a shrug of its shoulders to the Raos.

Jack Walker invested in his home town team, yada-yada, but he also brought the punters through the door. Jack's 'dream' then became for Rovers to "wash its own face" but was this ever really feasible? Jack didn't manage it. The money required to bring in Top 4 players even then wasn't going to be supplied by the fan base on its own.

I guess we needed to take sponsorship and the commercial side of the business to the next level but relegation in 99 was probably what did for us. Jack's legacy bouyed us back up and with the Trust propping us up financially, we pushed the wage:turnover ratio as far as we dared, bringing in good managers and astute signings - particularly with Souness and Hughes.

Now that all that was keaned away, yada-yada, we are in no position as a club (town?) to sustain a promotion chasing Championship club with our fanbase/sponsorship. Plus with the racist idiots now starting to malign the club, like a melanoma, the chances of engaging the local ethnic community diminishes, as does a large potential improvement to long term support to the club.

I wonder how a club like Swansea would have managed had they not got promoted at just the right time? They are held up as an example of how it can be done. I'd argue it's more of an example of how things were possible once.

If FFP is not legally swept away Bosman style then we are in trouble, and even if it is, we will be a floundering Championship club. At best.

There is only one way out in the long term Stuart .... although many on here appear to find it somewhat unpalatable and prefer to turn away and stick their heads in the sand.

To quote old Knocky albeit out of context...... "Above all, people are disposed to mistake predicting troubles for causing troubles and even for desiring troubles: "If only," they love to think, "if only people wouldn't talk about it, it probably wouldn't happen."

[only2garners]

I thought there was a topic on this but can't find one. Apologies if I've missed it. The Mail Online is reporting QPR face potential fines of £62m under FFP.

Oliver Kay in his Times article yesterday (see other thread), put a figure of +/- £10m on a potential fine for Rovers if promoted.

The saving grace for Rovers is that there are a lot of clubs in the same situation in the Championship if FPP is applied.

[RevidgeBlue]

I wondered where the money raised in proposed "fines" was going to disappear off too, it'd be ludicrous if it goes anywhere other than being reinvested back into the game at grass roots level.

I really object to the principle of the FFP rules it seems to me they have very little to do with ensuring the viability of Clubs and rather more to do with maintaining the status quo and trying to ensure that a club like Blackburn Rovers doesn't upset the monopoly of the "big" clubs again in future, or trying to ensure a club like Wimbledon doesn't rise through the Leagues again.

Why shouldn't a billionaire plough part of his personal fortune into his favourite football club if he wishes?

In practice Im guessing it will be exactly like everything else, the rules will be completely ignored if they are flouted by the likes of RealMadrid Barcelona or Manchester United and enforced with iron zeal if broken by clubs like QPR or Blackburn Rovers.

[pk1875]

As far as I know the money generated from fines will be distributed amongst the teams who meet the FFP regulations.

I cannot believe this rule won't be challenged in the courts, if a billionaire is daft enough to through millions into a footballing black hole then so be it.

.

[cn174]

So they fine teams like Rovers and QPR, and give it to teams like Man U and Chelsea. Just genius.

[Stuart]

So they fine teams like Rovers and QPR, and give it to teams like Man U and Chelsea. Just genius.

How on earth do Man U and Chelsea comply with FFP? If they do then there is something seriously @#/? up with those rules.

But the idea of fining clubs for money they don't have is ludicrous in itself. By paying the fine, aren't the going to go further into debt?

[DE.]

Man United generated huge revenues thanks to being a commercial juggernaut... which means in theory they can make massive losses and still not fall foul of FFP.

[RevidgeBlue]

Man United generated huge revenues thanks to being a commercial juggernaut... which means in theory they can make massive losses and still not fall foul of FFP.

They can barely meet the interest on their debts can they? I was using them as a figurative example, I could never see the Glazers pumping in millions of their own money. (If they have any in the current economic climate that is)

[Majiball]

I am positive I read today they were reconsidering giving the money to the complying clubs and instead giving it to charity.

[perthblue02]

So they fine teams like Rovers and QPR, and give it to teams like Man U and Chelsea. Just genius.

Does it not just get distributed to teams in the football league? That was my understanding

[RevidgeBlue]

There is only one way out in the long term Stuart .... although many on here appear to find it somewhat unpalatable and prefer to turn away and stick their heads in the sand.

."[/i]

Two actually Gordon, you can continue supporting the Club you've known and loved all your life albeit at a lower level if necessary, or walk away from actively supporting any Club and become a TV armchair fan.

In my view It certainly doesn't consist of pitching up to try and form some sort of bond or empathy with a hybrid mongrel of an outfit bereft of identity or history, plying it's trade out of some soulless bowl masquerading under the name of The Wonga Loans Stadium or something similar.

[Paul]

As far as I know the money generated from fines will be distributed amongst the teams who meet the FFP regulations.

I cannot believe this rule won't be challenged in the courts, if a billionaire is daft enough to through millions into a footballing black hole then so be it.

.

The current thinking is to give the money to charity.

I'm sure it will be challenged.

[Stuart]

Two actually Gordon, you can continue supporting the Club you've known and loved all your life albeit at a lower level if necessary, or walk away from actively supporting any Club and become a TV armchair fan.

In my view It certainly doesn't consist of pitching up to try and form some sort of bond or empathy with a hybrid mongrel of an outfit bereft of identity or history, plying it's trade out of some soulless bowl masquerading under the name of The Wonga Loans Stadium or something similar.

There's a hybrid mongrel of an outfit bereft of identity or history currently second in the SPL. Wonder what their fans think?

We aren't talking about our generation, or probably our children's generation but beyond that. The grim reality is that Blackburn kids of the future will not support their home town club in the Poundland League North but will be fans of Manchester City or United, or even some Southern team. Let's just hope they don't claim birth rights...

That would be worse.

[thenodrog]

Does it not just get distributed to teams in the football league? That was my understanding

If it does there should be strings attached so that it must adopt grant status and only be spent on things like youth development, supporter facilities and infrastructure .

[thenodrog]

Two actually Gordon, you can continue supporting the Club you've known and loved all your life albeit at a lower level if necessary, or walk away from actively supporting any Club and become a TV armchair fan.

In my view It certainly doesn't consist of pitching up to try and form some sort of bond or empathy with a hybrid mongrel of an outfit bereft of identity or history, plying it's trade out of some soulless bowl masquerading under the name of The Wonga Loans Stadium or something similar.

'The only constant in life is change' Simon. Ask any dinosaur and he'll confirm that. Oh I forgot... there aren't any.

[jim mk2]

There's a hybrid mongrel of an outfit bereft of identity or history currently second in the SPL. Wonder what their fans think?

We aren't talking about our generation, or probably our children's generation but beyond that. The grim reality is that Blackburn kids of the future will not support their home town club in the Poundland League North but will be fans of Manchester City or United, or even some Southern team. Let's just hope they don't claim birth rights...

That would be worse.

Well, we stuck and most others stuck with Rovers through the grim times post 1966 so I don't see why the next generation would not.

Inverness was two clubs in the same small town merging - very different from the silly idea of proud historic Lancashire clubs joining into some plastic hybrid.

[Neil Weaver]

Well, we stuck and most others stuck with Rovers through the grim times post 1966 so I don't see why the next generation would not.

Things might be unchanged from the 60's in jimmk2-land but out here in the real world it's a whole lot different.

[thenodrog]

Well, we stuck and most others stuck with Rovers through the grim times post 1966 so I don't see why the next generation would not.

Without Jack Walker we'd still be playing in a decrepit old stadium and problem is that Jack Walkers are no longer allowed. Dunno why I wrote that cos you know it full well.

[jim mk2]

It doesn't need a Jack Walker to be successful again. Norwich, West Brom , Southampton, Swansea are proving you don't need a heap of money to do well in the top flight.

[FGS5635]

FFP has so many loopholes. Rich owners could still find ways to inject cash.