[Archived] Financial Fair Play

[thenodrog]

Saying that, I've been on here for about 12 years I think. Yet to hear you ever admit to being wrong so not expecting it to start now.

Maybe not BUT I've admitted Jim's been wrong on numerous occasions Ricky.

[Stuart]

Southampton etc show it is not impossible getting up because everyone in the championship has the same problems, it just takes very good management and organisation - rovers are obviously miles behind in this area.

The problem is that FFP and the increased gap in tv money will make it harder to stay up in the premier league because you're going to go up with a far weaker squad that everyone else.

Not quite.

Some clubs have years of PL infrastructure to pay for, including PL type contracts.

Some clubs were sold to numpties who made all the wrong decisions at exactly the wrong period in history (in relation to the operating environment).

Some clubs are starting way behind the curve in terms of their ability to meet the FFP requirements in time, as a result.

People are citing examples of other clubs as proof that Rovers can be promoted. Well, those theories are questionable at best, and bunkum at worst.

[thenodrog]

Southampton etc show it is not impossible getting up because everyone in the championship has the same problems, it just takes very good management and organisation - rovers are obviously miles behind in this area.

We had exactly that. The new lot kicked em out as quick as they could. Yet still people saw no reason to protest!

Southampton also had some good luck in unearthing 3 teenage gems to sell for mega cash. You can argue it shows they have a great youth setup, but you still need a bit of luck when it comes to things like that.

Really thats the way forward these days, invest in youth and hope you can find a gem to sell for huge sums to then give you the FFP clout to spend yourself

Do the rules still facilitate such FG?

[den]

We had exactly that. The new lot kicked em out as quick as they could. Yet still people saw no reason to protest!

It was supported by some fans Theno.

[thenodrog]

It was supported by some fans Theno.

'fans' Den?

[PAFELL]

Get away with you. Talks cheap Tyrone. tbqh I'm quite surprised their name isn't being used much more now. If it would save the club I'd accept Al Qaeda Park.... prob fill the ground to bursting too!

Put an apostrophe in and effectively it became "Venky's Stadium" 3 years ago last Tuesday.

btw Quite surprised nobody has thought to celebrate the occasion.... seeing as how plenty welcomed them with open arms back then.

Me too. If somebody wanted naming rights for Ewood park, which helps keep the club afloat, so be it. Pride would say no. But survival may mean there is no choice but to allow it. Would hate it to happen. But would rather have a club than no club at all.

[den]

If we get through to the beginning of next season and pick up a £20m fine for breaking the FFP rules (when is that taken into account?), my guess is the debt will be around £90m. I can't imagine naming rights are going to save us from that.

[Stuart]

If we get through to the beginning of next season and pick up a £20m fine for breaking the FFP rules (when is that taken into account?), my guess is the debt will be around £90m. I can't imagine naming rights are going to save us from that.

The naming rights would simply be a vehicle for our masters to inject money into the club. There is no-one else going to put the necessary funds in.

The bigger problem is that Venkys won't be giving us any money anyway - loophole or not. They have turned us from being a money pit into a money black hole. Despite all of their "naivety" I doubt they are that naive.

[broadsword]

you'd need naming rights for the players as well

KFC Hanley for instance

[Stuart]

Vileda Kean - for mopping up spills

[Paul]

The naming rights would simply be a vehicle for our masters to inject money into the club. There is no-one else going to put the necessary funds in.

The bigger problem is that Venkys won't be giving us any money anyway - loophole or not. They have turned us from being a money pit into a money black hole. Despite all of their "naivety" I doubt they are that naive.

I'm sure there is or will be an FFP rule which prevents naming rights as the solution to any club's debt problems. To allow such a loophole would make the whole of FFP pointless.

[chaddyrovers]

Venky's know they've made mistakes... but we don't have to sell Rhodes to meet FFP rules, insists Blackburn boss Bowyer

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2511270/Blackburn-Rovers-sell-Jordan-Rhodes--Gary-Bowyer.html#ixzz2lKE5N9Qt
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[Bucksrover]

Venky's know they've made mistakes... but we don't have to sell Rhodes to meet FFP rules, insists Blackburn boss BowyerRead more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2511270/Blackburn-Rovers-sell-Jordan-Rhodes--Gary-Bowyer.html#ixzz2lKE5N9QtFollow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

I was really heartened reading that article.

Nice to read something positive about rovers, suggesting there may be hope

[broadsword]

Clutching at straws?

[Bucksrover]

Well i would imagine bowyer knows a bit more about the club than anyone on this message board, and he clearly hasn't given up, so i won't.

The club needs supporters now more than ever.

[Veevs]

Clutching at straws?

Well there is always the possibility, the end of year financial reports (with the massive loss) run on a different timescale to the football season reports.. allot of the money went on ridding us of multiple managers (Berg and Appleton), staff (Agnew will of been paid off) and players (Murphy and Gomes both paid off with Givet etc also apparently having some form of payoff) also we have made a transfer profit during this season (the league or should I say FFP season) of 1.4m (Olsson and Formica brought in 3m and we spent 1.6m on marshal and Evans) and reduced wages by a considerable margin (Peders, Givet, Gomez, Murphy, Olsson all must of been on premier league level wages which even a conservative estimate would put that at well over 6m in savings).

Still think it is incredibly unlikely that we will make it but maybe Bowyer has a feeling he can shift some of the other high earners (Etuhu, Orr and Robinson spring to mind) and just creep in under the limit.

The most confusing part is lining up all the figures... Rhodes for example would of fallen into the year before last in terms of financial (at least the initial fee) but last seasons league.. also in last seasons league we have payoffs for the likes of Kean and agent fees in millions for the kids from Portugal, Etuhu and co...

[Stuart]

I'm sure there is or will be an FFP rule which prevents naming rights as the solution to any club's debt problems. To allow such a loophole would make the whole of FFP pointless.

I don't think it would.

Forcing owners to 'give' money to the club would avoid the current loan arrangement where clubs are in debt to their owners.

I don't see how legally this could be stopped. Are any current stadium naming deals going to be outlawed, or even capped with a maximum value?

Clubs are going to have to be innovative about how they raise additional revenue. To limit sponsorship deals would remove that as an option, making it all about footfall and ticket prices. The more you think about this, the more unworkable and less 'fair' it seems. I'm sure there are cleverer people than you or I who are already putting these arguments together to try to overturn FFP, because trying to limit debt is one thing, trying to limit income is another.

[Parsonblue]

I still don't understand the argument about trying to overturn FFP. This system was introduced by the chairmen of the Football League clubs. My understanding is that it is their system and not something that has been imposed upon them from above. They have all agreed it and implemented it in Leagues One and Two for the past season or two. It has worked reasonably well at that level thus far. It's only club's like the Rovers, who have been a shambles under the Indian mob and run up huge debts, who are going to suffer and it was to prevent clubs getting into the state we now find ourselves in that the Football League club chairmen introduced the system in the first place. Indeed, it was introduced to make sure that clubs lived within their means and, of course, that will always favour the clubs with large support and more appealing commercial opportunities. Unfortunately, the Rovers have a small supporter base, limited commercial opportunities and limited income.

[thenodrog]

I still don't understand the argument about trying to overturn FFP. This system was introduced by the chairmen of the Football League clubs. My understanding is that it is their system and not something that has been imposed upon them from above. They have all agreed it and implemented it in Leagues One and Two for the past season or two. It has worked reasonably well at that level thus far. It's only club's like the Rovers, who have been a shambles under the Indian mob and run up huge debts, who are going to suffer and it was to prevent clubs getting into the state we now find ourselves in that the Football League club chairmen introduced the system in the first place. Indeed, it was introduced to make sure that clubs lived within their means and, of course, that will always favour the clubs with large support and more appealing commercial opportunities. Unfortunately, the Rovers have a small supporter base, limited commercial opportunities and limited income.

Exactly right Pb. Once we lost Prem status our demise was inevitable. The Walker millions lifted us (falsely) on high but ultimately we are what we are. The shame about all this is that like stricken aircraft suffering engine failure the only way is down. Many clubs have glided down to earth with a bump but unfortunately our engines packed up a couple of seasons ago .....and now the wings have dropped off!

[den]

Bowyer

Venky's know they've made mistakes... but we don't have to sell Rhodes to meet FFP rules, insists Blackburn boss Bowyer

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2511270/Blackburn-Rovers-sell-Jordan-Rhodes--Gary-Bowyer.html#ixzz2lKE5N9Qt

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Bowyer's just been to Pune. That's where that comes from.

[Rover_Shaun]

Venky's know they've made mistakes... but we don't have to sell Rhodes to meet FFP rules, insists Blackburn boss Bowyer

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2511270/Blackburn-Rovers-sell-Jordan-Rhodes--Gary-Bowyer.html#ixzz2lKE5N9Qt

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Blah blah blah blah fkin Blah

[Waggy76]

Exactly right Pb. Once we lost Prem status our demise was inevitable. The Walker millions lifted us (falsely) on high but ultimately we are what we are. The shame about all this is that like stricken aircraft suffering engine failure the only way is down. Many clubs have glided down to earth with a bump but unfortunately our engines packed up a couple of seasons ago .....and now the wings have dropped off!

The above comments , let Venkys off the hook ....

You should ask , how and why did we lose our prem status ? ....

[Jimmy612]

Venky's know they've made mistakes... but we don't have to sell Rhodes to meet FFP rules, insists Blackburn boss Bowyer

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2511270/Blackburn-Rovers-sell-Jordan-Rhodes--Gary-Bowyer.html#ixzz2lKE5N9Qt

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

‘Certainly when they took over they invested in a Premier League club and would prefer the club to still be there,’ Bowyer said. ‘Mistakes have been made – people put their hands up to that.

I've not seen any evidence of that. You'd think the first thing they would do is apologise to the fans for making our footballing lives a misery for 3 years, continuing into the bleakest of futures.

'Mistakes have been made' - Kean Off, they were warned, and warned and better warned - this wasn't just mistakes. It was blind ignorance, crass stupidity, a total lack of respect to good football people who knew this club inside out. An unbelievable lack of respect towards the fans - to think that taking 9 of us for a holiday and a chat would iron everything out. To continue to employ that charlatan for 20 months whilst he happily demolished our club along with his fork-tongued agent.

Complete keaners the lot of them. 'Mistakes have been made' - bellends.

This claptrap from Bowyer only exacerbates the hate I have towards them.

'Their generosity cannot be questioned in terms of how much money they have put into the club. I’ve been at the club for 10 years now, I care about the club a lot.'

It would have been a lot less if they'd have listened to the right people - What a load of crap that article is. It's a complete non-story. The only thing it does is force home the fact that we haven't a pot to kean in and we overpaid massively for Rhodes.

Won't sell Rhodes ffs - i really think we have bigger issues as we glide towards financial oblivion than if we will sell bloody Rhodes or not.

[Waggy76]

Good post, Jimmy ..

[M-K]

I'm sure there is or will be an FFP rule which prevents naming rights as the solution to any club's debt problems. To allow such a loophole would make the whole of FFP pointless.

Man City's owners effectively sponsored their own club's shirts for a vastly inflated sum to cheat the FFP rules.

Nothing to do with Venky's, but there you go.