[Archived] Financial Fair Play

[FGS5635]

FFP simply cant be policed properly, there will be loopholes galore for any club that wants to bend to the rules

Its also ridiculous that FFP stops owners putting capital into a club. I can see why they want to stop loans and debt, but stopping actual cash injections is stupid and a slap in the face to smaller clubs

[OJRovers]

FFP is the least of our worries at the minute with a negative cashflow of £2m a month and total reliance on the owners/Indian bank to keep us going week to week.

[broadsword]

£3m, no?

[T.J.Newton]

I just cant get my head around ffp, how exactly does fining clubs/owners millions when the club is all ready in debt improve or safeguard anything? (transfer embargos and substantial points deductions should be more than enough punishment)

just seems to me that the f.a. tosspots(or whichever corrupt organisation decides these things) is just trying to squeeze town clubs out of the picture once and for all.

[Parsonblue]

  On 22/11/2013 at 15:27, T.J.Newton said:

I just cant get my head around ffp, how exactly does fining clubs/owners millions when the club is all ready in debt improve or safeguard anything? (transfer embargos and substantial points deductions should be more than enough punishment)

just seems to me that the f.a. tosspots(or whichever corrupt organisation decides these things) is just trying to squeeze town clubs out of the picture once and for all.

The Football League FFP was brought about at the instigation of the all of the club chairmen of the 72 Football League clubs. It is the system that THEY WANTED. It has already worked well enough for a couple of seasons in League One and League Two. It was brought about by the Football League to ensure that its 72 clubs survived and couldn't simply build up more and more debt that would force them into liquidation.

[Rover_Shaun]

You can't beat Northern humour

[Stuart]

Well, if all 5 of those players were fit (for the full 90 minutes) and on form (i.e. having the luck that Bumley are), it wouldn't really be that much of a pipe dream.

[Rover_Shaun]

Erm OK.

[Amo]

  On 22/11/2013 at 17:52, Blue and White Army said:

Erm OK.

None of them are defenders............................

Except two of them (Kane & Spurr).

[Rover_Shaun]

I couldn't make out Kane's name and I thought the far left looked like Rochina?? LOL

Either way it's not even a dream. No chance. Not a prayer. Not a hope in hell. IMO of course (which isn't worth much)

[Waggy76]

  On 22/11/2013 at 17:39, Blue and White Army said:

You can't beat Northern humour

My mate received one of these today !!

Unfortunately not a chance and never will be whilst Venkys are in situ !

I mean , promotion from any division not the one we are in this season , cos we won't be in it 2 years today ...

[Stuart]

  On 22/11/2013 at 17:58, Blue and White Army said:

I couldn't make out Kane's name and I thought the far left looked like Rochina?? LOL

Either way it's not even a dream. No chance. Not a prayer. Not a hope in hell. IMO of course (which isn't worth much)

To be fair, I thought it was Rochina and Evans, not Spurr and Kane!

[Amo]

But Rochina's only played one league game this season, and that was in our away kit.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

  On 22/11/2013 at 12:56, Bryan said:

£3m, no?

Not saying you are wrong - but why £3m ? That was the approx losses last season - a season when we paid off three managers, a chief executive and numerous players - and this season our wages bill must be lower as a result ?

[Rover_Shaun]

  On 22/11/2013 at 18:34, Amarillo said:

But Rochina's only played one league game this season, and that was in our away kit.

Pre season?

[Jimmy612]

  On 22/11/2013 at 18:55, Blue and White Army said:

Pre season?

I admit I thought it was Rochina too.

[Veevs]

  On 22/11/2013 at 18:52, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

Not saying you are wrong - but why £3m ? That was the approx losses last season - a season when we paid off three managers, a chief executive and numerous players - and this season our wages bill must be lower as a result ?

I don't think our losses are anywhere near that, still bloody awful mind.. circa 1-1.2m pcm at a rough guess based on the numbers at the moment.. people jump at some of the insane figures floating around (season loss or financial year loss) and remove player transfers and simply divide them by 12..

Last season we paid off Kean, Appleton, Berg (2.3m there alone), a couple of directors, lots of backroom staff, a few players and paid the near premier league standard wages for Olsson, Murphy, Givet, MGP, Gomez (together at least 6m pa in wages based on an average 25k wage which I doubt many can argue) and a fair few others who got directly replaced (Bentley, CKR, Jones, Vukcevic, Stewart, Sandomierski, Formica etc) .. we also paid significant sums on the lads from Portugal (circa 1m), made a 5m plus loss on transfers before agent fees...

Don't think the situation is getting better (hell we are still making a massive loss brought about by Venkys) but I do wish people would not take last years figures and divide by 12.. it is never that simple.

Anyone know who our financial director is btw (and don't say Silk as clearly stated she left 30/09)?

NB it is worth noting that next season we will need to find an extra 8m with reduced parachute payments coming into effect(16m for two then 8m or two)... so even if we managed to ONLY loose 12m this season we will need to magically reduce costs or make sales to make up the other 12m to meet FFP rules.

[gumboots]

The problem is that clubs coming down from the Premier League are very ill equipped to deal with it unless they see relegation coming from a few years off and make sure that everyone is one a big wage cut when they sign contracts from now on. The parachute payments provide a cushion but not enough if you suddenly plummet as you don't have time to start getting your house in order before it's upon you. That's why it's worked in the lower leagues, but for sides in the Championship, both those with aspirations to win promotion and those who have been relegated without having made proper preparation, it's going to be really hard

[Stuart]

  On 23/11/2013 at 08:23, gumboots said:

The problem is that clubs coming down from the Premier League are very ill equipped to deal with it unless they see relegation coming from a few years off and make sure that everyone is one a big wage cut when they sign contracts from now on. The parachute payments provide a cushion but not enough if you suddenly plummet as you don't have time to start getting your house in order before it's upon you. That's why it's worked in the lower leagues, but for sides in the Championship, both those with aspirations to win promotion and those who have been relegated without having made proper preparation, it's going to be really hard

Some would say that is the clubs' own fault but the gap in rewards for staying in the PL are so huge compared to being relegated that the mentality is that clubs are over a barrel. Players and agents know this, and fans don't accept giving up in March.

Fair Play in this context was removed in 1992 when the PL was born. The gap is now so huge that it's created a massive imbalance and a paradox for club finances.

The concept of relegation from the PL team is like a mandatory game of Russian Roulette for club chairmen at the end of every season.

[Blue blood]

  On 23/11/2013 at 09:28, Stuart said:

Some would say that is the clubs' own fault but the gap in rewards for staying in the PL are so huge compared to being relegated that the mentality is that clubs are over a barrel. Players and agents know this, and fans don't accept giving up in March.

Fair Play in this context was removed in 1992 when the PL was born. The gap is now so huge that it's created a massive imbalance and a paradox for club finances.

The concept of relegation from the PL team is like a mandatory game of Russian Roulette for club chairmen at the end of every season.

Spot on, especially your middle point. Would add that Fair Play was more than removed, nigh on obliterated when champions league money came in, in full swing, along with places for CL down to 4th to ensure the big clubs always got it.

[Stuart]

  On 23/11/2013 at 10:32, Blue blood said:

Spot on, especially your middle point. Would add that Fair Play was more than removed, nigh on obliterated when champions league money came in, in full swing, along with places for CL down to 4th to ensure the big clubs always got it.

Great point.

And it turn, that means that the top 4-6 clubs can afford to hoover up all of the talent to sit on their bench or turn out for their reserves. Or be loaned out to clubs who nurture them, give them experience and give them back having added all the value for the big club to decide whether to keep them or sell them.

The irony of course is that we didn't give two hoots when it was us doing it, albeit on a smaller scale.

But ultimately it's a small group of clubs like ours who are caught in the squeeze between having large income and having tiny income - whilst not being able to reduce our expenses quickly enough.

To be fair to relegated teams, we need the parachute payments to to be sized to the value of the full first team contracts until their expiry. Any new contracts issued post-relegation are then the club's fault.

[AggyBlue]

  On 23/11/2013 at 12:11, Stuart said:

To be fair to relegated teams, we need the parachute payments to to be sized to the value of the full first team contracts until their expiry. Any new contracts issued post-relegation are then the club's fault.

Disagree, relegation clauses should be included in all contracts.

[Stuart]

  On 24/11/2013 at 23:47, AggyBlue said:

Disagree, relegation clauses should be included in all contracts.

Did you miss the part where players and agents have clubs over a barrel?

[Majiball]

  On 25/11/2013 at 06:02, Stuart said:

Did you miss the part where players and agents have clubs over a barrel?

And until this dynamic changes others will suffer the fortunes of Rovers.

[thenodrog]

  On 25/11/2013 at 06:02, Stuart said:

Did you miss the part where players and agents have clubs over a barrel?

Not for much longer. FFP will cause a massive drop in the wages of all but the Premier League clubs.