[Archived] Times article

[broadsword]

You forgot about "leasing" players.

How long and hard Steve Kean worked and how he was great with young players.

Basically they didn't have a clue what they were doing (nice bit of research, there) and got their fingers burned big time.

[Athlete]

Decent article, but nothing we have not read, or known already.

As an aside and in line with other comments, back then I was actually accused of racism by more than one Rovers fan for daring to express my concerns and suggesting the new owners would relegate us after Allardyce was removed. Nasty comment without foundation. I was only wrong in thinking it would be the first season, not the second and I assure you it had nothing to do with skin colour.

Looking back I can't help feeling that so many of our fans were absolutely clueless to the possible implications of moronic owners and relegation from the top tier. I was banging my head in frustration trying to get all and sundry to understand that remaining in the PL was the only thing that mattered for the time being due to our perilous finances, small crowds, cheap tickets and the huge income it guaranteed to the club.

Many knew better however as they dreamed of a playing change, complete with pretty little triangles and pass and move football. Barely a whimper was raised at the sacking of a top rate, proven PL manager and the subsequent replacement with a drunken chancer, complete with his blank CV. In fact the decision was celebrated by way too many and suddenly we were lumbered with that total maniac and in complete freefall. Our fans have a lot to answer for in that respect, as too many wanted SA gone and were prepared to risk our PL survival in the hope of a more aesthetically pleasing viewing experience. Ask them to pay more for that realistic pleasure however and they would have baulked.

The saga continued and again somewhat bizarrely, many crazily thought we had immediately achieved the desired style of football under the classless one after beating a struggling Liverpool under Hodgson at home 3-1. Torres missed a sitter at the BE, I think they also missed a penalty, Hodgson was potted the following week, but still our fans swallowed the spin which followed the win.

So many of our supporters were taken in, hook line and sinker.

For me, it is ok now stating we all gather round, hold hands and unite for the common good, but in reality it is two years way too late. Most knew the vital importance of uniting the fan base way back then, at a time it may have helped, but for a myriad of reasons it proved impossible. Yes we can find common ground now. Pretty easy when there is little left to worry about or concern ourselves with, as we pick the bones off our rotting carcass.

I don't claim to a footballing oracle, but equally I am not going to sit here and pretend much of this was hard to figure or imagine and align myself with those who were unable to see past the end of their noses. Beckham, Ronaldinho, 5 million per window, Champions League football, sacking Allardyce, installing a nobody, selling our top players, removing the administration... the list goes on and on. Exactly what was confusing many of our fans? When things don't add up or make any sense at all there is normally a reason for that and as 'theno' said earlier when your spider sense starts tingling and natural instinct kicks in it is foolish to dismiss it.

Amazed by many of our fans this last year or two and it has become abundantly clear most of them know very little about professional football. Just saying it how it is.

top post mate and yet still some fans cant see the writing on the wall

[Guest Norbert]

I readily admit I didn't think it was going to be quite this bad initially. Then Sam was sacked, and the Maradona talk started............I was open minded about that bald Scottish bloke until the results started spelling it out and we rapidly went south.

If only the Tata company were interested. They have worked wonders with Jaguar and Land Rover. Those are the sort of Indians that may have been good.

[blondie]

They did what it said on the tin TA-TA!

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I'm not a rascist and I can furnish the proof of that fact if I need to. The match up between Rovers and Venkies even at the outset was bizarre, they had absolutely ZERO experience of any kind of football at all. That fact had me concerned from day one. I gave them the benefit of the doubt at that time. If they'd have had a back seat presence and just turned up for games that would have been OK.

When after a couple of months they sacked a experienced guy in mid season my alarm bells started ringing. When they gave Kean their blessing for the rest of the season after he'd been in charge for what seemed like a dogwatch I knew something was seriously wrong at the club. From that point it's been downhill all they way. Until they are gone the Rovers will not thrive, it's as simple as that.

To the guys with the " Dossier ", " Smoking Gun ", or whatever - I say " Put up or shut up ". Publish and be damned.

When I first coined the nickname " The Chicken Chokers " for the Venkies I received a PM from a moderator on this board threating me with a ban if I used the phrase again ! You couldn't make it up.

[AggyBlue]

When I first coined the nickname " The Chicken Chokers " for the Venkies I received a PM from a moderator on this board threating me with a ban if I used the phrase again ! You couldn't make it up.

I look forward to your next post in a months time

[jim mk2]

I'm not a rascist and I can furnish the proof of that fact if I need to. The match up between Rovers and Venkies even at the outset was bizarre, they had absolutely ZERO experience of any kind of football at all. That fact had me concerned from day one. I gave them the benefit of the doubt at that time. If they'd have had a back seat presence and just turned up for games that would have been OK.

When after a couple of months they sacked a experienced guy in mid season my alarm bells started ringing. When they gave Kean their blessing for the rest of the season after he'd been in charge for what seemed like a dogwatch I knew something was seriously wrong at the club. From that point it's been downhill all they way. Until they are gone the Rovers will not thrive, it's as simple as that.

To the guys with the " Dossier ", " Smoking Gun ", or whatever - I say " Put up or shut up ". Publish and be damned.

When I first coined the nickname " The Chicken Chokers " for the Venkies I received a PM from a moderator on this board threating me with a ban if I used the phrase again ! You couldn't make it up.

I can bet who that was. He's a waste of space.

[Leonard Venkhater]

This.

If you had been around here in 2010/2011 you would hardly have believed the crap that was dished out on here to people who dared to criticise and question the methods and motives of the new owners and the key players, never mind those that actually took part in the protests. Some wounds still fester. As with the law of the land ignorance is no defence. If you don't believe me go back and read some of the threads from that time.

I'd like to think lessons have been learned but I'd be dreaming.

I accept that. I am new to this MB and I do believe what you say about taking stick for posting your misgivings. I can see that it must be irritating to see so many others bemoaning now, when you feel your views were dismissed at the time. But I can't make that go away. No-one can.

So what do we do now, knowing what we know? We can't go on despising, dismissing and refusing to stand alongside fellow supporters, who, after all, have all been dealt the same blows. What should be our aims?

[SoldierMo]

So with all this debate a question for you all....were venkys stupid enough to be duped by others or were they well aware of what was going on??? Did the BRAG DOSSIER open the venky eyes to few truths or were they aware of it already and panicked to get rid of the ones involved??

[Rover_Shaun]

So what's to be done now? Sitting in seats isn't going to help.....surely?

I'm surprised that the anti-venky feelings have evaporated. After all the team hardly has any ambitions to dent now so what is there to lose??

[broadsword]

Might be the last season fans will get to see rovers play.

[Stuart]

Our fans have a lot to answer for

Good post OOJW and I'm going to pick this line completely out of context (and apologise for doing so) to make a point.

There is a school of thought that fans blaming each other takes the heat off the real villains - which it does to a certain extent. But the sad fact is that the apathy and even antipathy of thousands of our fans did play a part in things being allowed to carry on for so long. I'm talking not only about a lack of support for the protests but also a contempt for them too.

Even worse though are those people who actively shouted down, ridiculed and even physically assaulted protesters. I hope you are ashamed because you, especially, played your part.

This recent concept that "no-one knew how bad things were" is a convenient way of excusing the fact that "no-one was listening" because they didn't want to know.

[Leonard Venkhater]

Good post OOJW and I'm going to pick this line completely out of context (and apologise for doing so) to make a point.

There is a school of thought that fans blaming each other takes the heat off the real villains - which it does to a certain extent. But the sad fact is that the apathy and even antipathy of thousands of our fans did play a part in things being allowed to carry on for so long. I'm talking not only about a lack of support for the protests but also a contempt for them too.

Even worse though are those people who actively shouted down, ridiculed and even physically assaulted protesters. I hope you are ashamed because you, especially, played your part.

This recent concept that "no-one knew how bad things were" is a convenient way of excusing the fact that "no-one was listening" because they didn't want to know.

School of thought eh...So..locate the responsibility for this crime in the fans?

[yoda]

So what's to be done now? Sitting in seats isn't going to help.....surely?

I'm surprised that the anti-venky feelings have evaporated. After all the team hardly has any ambitions to dent now so what is there to lose??

They have not evaporated around here, just to let you know

[Leonard Venkhater]

They have not evaporated around here, just to let you know

Or here......Despise them in our house

[Stuart]

School of thought eh...So..locate the responsibility for this crime in the fans?

Aiding and abetting.

Yes, there are bigger fish to fry (and hopefully fry they will) but the majority of fans allowed evil to prevail by doing nothing.

Even this debate has been done before though, LV, and it's water under the bridge but when people start raking up the past to try to re-write it they need to be put right.

[onlyonejackwalker]

Good post OOJW and I'm going to pick this line completely out of context (and apologise for doing so) to make a point.

There is a school of thought that fans blaming each other takes the heat off the real villains - which it does to a certain extent. But the sad fact is that the apathy and even antipathy of thousands of our fans did play a part in things being allowed to carry on for so long. I'm talking not only about a lack of support for the protests but also a contempt for them too.

Even worse though are those people who actively shouted down, ridiculed and even physically assaulted protesters. I hope you are ashamed because you, especially, played your part.

This recent concept that "no-one knew how bad things were" is a convenient way of excusing the fact that "no-one was listening" because they didn't want to know.

Key sentence highlighted in bold. Those concerned enough from the outset to voice their complaints, boycott, or protest were made to feel like reactionary fools by the more 'knowledgeable' fans who believed all would be rosy under the Venky's regime. I wonder if those fans now understand the concerns of the few way back then?

[yoda]

Aiding and abetting.

Yes, there are bigger fish to fry (and hopefully fry they will) but the majority of fans allowed evil to prevail by doing nothing.

Even this debate has been done before though, LV, and it's water under the bridge but when people start raking up the past to try to re-write it they need to be put right.

the majority of fans to blame! wtf

when you have devious cretins in positions of power how would the majority of fans know?

lets put the blame were it belongs ffs and move on

[Howler]

I recall when we played Swansea at home in December 2011 (more than a year after Venky's bought us and about a year since Kean was manager) and weeks before the infamous Bolton game. By that time it was clear Kean was bulletproof and we were likely to be relegated. Not being a local or a diehard reader of this board at the time I didn't know if there was a protest before the game or not but I made sure my voice was heard inside.

I was amazed at the abuse a yellow protest T-shirted fan got from some people and the comments me and my brother got for standing up at the "stand up if you want Steve Kean out" chants. We were the only ones in our section and we had comments such as, "can't you enjoy the win", "not real fans" and "support the team". It was then that I realised that the fans would never achieve anything as a group - too many people didn't want to accept what was happening or were more determined to show they "supported" their team (ironically sat in silence) and be a big fan, rather than stand up against the damage being done at the club.

I'm still not convinced that anything the fans did would have changed anything, other than a complete boycott which would have been impossible. However, I do think our fans as a whole are some of the more placid and accepting ones and we were probably seen as a soft touch by Anderson, Kean et al. I doubt Kean would have seen almost two years out at somewhere like West Ham!

[Leonard Venkhater]

Aiding and abetting.

Yes, there are bigger fish to fry (and hopefully fry they will) but the majority of fans allowed evil to prevail by doing nothing.

Even this debate has been done before though, LV, and it's water under the bridge but when people start raking up the past to try to re-write it they need to be put right.

OK..and .I am really not trying to be sarcastic.So what now?

Do Rovers supporters just crawl away to sit and stew, hating their fellow fans,resenting current revisionism/ previous ignorance, only to maintain the divide and rule and accept the "end"?

The rift between supporters has to be mended sooner rather than later. That means focusing our ire on the perpetrators rather than fellow "victims "..(.imo)

[Stuart]

OK..and .I am really not trying to be sarcastic.So what now?

Do Rovers supporters just crawl away to sit and stew, hating their fellow fans,resenting current revisionism/ previous ignorance, only to maintain the divide and rule and accept the "end"?

The rift between supporters has to be mended sooner rather than later. That means focusing our ire on the perpetrators rather than fellow "victims "..(.imo)

Hey, it wasn't me who raked it all up, and I don't hate anyone. I just resent the resent posts that 'we weren't to know' when you consider the amount of @#/? that was dished out on here. This is where we are now discussing it after all.

What we do now is sit and wait for the axe to fall and hope that there are enough Rovers Trust and Action Group members to rally round and pick up the pieces when the time comes. Maybe we could share a bucket in the town centre, LV?

[thenodrog]

the majority of fans to blame! wtf

when you have devious cretins in positions of power how would the majority of fans know?

lets put the blame were it belongs ffs and move on

'How would the majority of fans know' Yoda? ffs they'd have had to be brain dead not to! I've listed the events of the first six months in a post a few hours ago. Anybody who could not see that the moves the Indians were making were foolish and dangerous to the well being and future viability of the club and if not they must have had their head up their arse.

[pk1875]

The protests at the time where in my opinion a success as they provided a platform for Rovers fans to voice their concerns to the footballing world, it's a shame many believed the PR spin put out by Team Kean.

[yoda]

'How would the majority of fans know' Yoda? ffs they'd have had to be brain dead not to! I've listed the events of the first six months in a post a few hours ago. Anybody who could not see that the moves the Indians were making were foolish and dangerous to the well being and future viability of the club and if not they must have had their head up their arse.

It took time for the majority to find out, the die was already cast before the Raos allegedly took over 100%, to late for any real action to be effective due to legal threats etc.

I know some fans knew what was going on and making efforts behind the scenes, I even tried to get to see the Raos via a contact in Pune who got stone walled, that was before some of the serious @#/? came out.

Your everyday fan did not stand a chance against the PR of he who must not be named and the head in the sand stance of the Raos.

If the Raos do own us 100% then they are to blame, not the supporters

[Leonard Venkhater]

'How would the majority of fans know' Yoda? ffs they'd have had to be brain dead not to! I've listed the events of the first six months in a post a few hours ago. Anybody who could not see that the moves the Indians were making were foolish and dangerous to the well being and future viability of the club and if not they must have had their head up their arse.

Yes, but it didn't add up.It doesn't add up now. It still seems counter intuitive that people would buy a club to destroy it, even though that is clearly what they have done.

I am sure I remember reading about a psychological process whereby "victims" have to deny abuse is happening, even as it is going on.

People do need the opportunity to tell their story and be heard. I know that. This MB is understandably full of that.

I just worry about maintaining the split in the fanbase. There is a certain irony that divide and rule undermined the protests, yet here it is again in the blaming of the non protesters.

Sorry if I sound more like Mary Poppins than Bob Dylan here, but Rovers fans have to bury the hatchet and somehow unite and work towards the same aims.