[Archived] News comment

[thenodrog]

What of this the aid worker was a child or relative of one of yours, you'd want them to be taken to wherever in the world they can get the best treatment wouldn't you?

Probably but thats a cop out. Allow me to turn it ariound. How would you feel if a child or relative of yours somehow contracted the virus from someone importing it in this fashion?

imo They'd have to go on the understanding specified in their contracts.that treatment will only be given in the country of their work.

Things? You mean you think this nurse is going to try to escape and randomly snog, vomit on, have sex with or share a needle with someone?

By that statement you are suggesting thats how she got it! Your irresponsibility and immaturity have been taken to an entirely new level.

[otto man]

Two. And the protocol here will be better eh? Are you certain?

Three..... Good grief! We owe her nothing, they owe her plenty.

You are displaying an incredible level of airy fairy irresponsibility. Lets just imagine if ebola by some chance during her filight, transport and treatment is contracted by someone else and then spreads to numerous others? How 'insulted' would you feel then?

Patient evac is a logistical nightmare. Made doubly difficult when the individual in question is highly contagious.From a safety aspect it would be logical to treat locally rather than risk spreading the disease. People do and have been known to escape quarantine (Including a US citizen suspected of carrying the ebola virus) As inhumane as it may sound to some, bringing them home is not the most sensible or indeed cost effective solution.

[ABBEY]

well volunteered Jim

[thenodrog]

Correct otto man but it doesn't sound even slightly inhumane to me. Surely they would be surrounded by experts in the field of ebola treatment, here they would be unlikely to find that level or concentration of specialised expertise in any single hospital.

well volunteered Jim

Will you chuck a few bob in toward his plane ticket out too Abbey? I suspect my 'call Jim's bluff' might be a nice little earner.

[ABBEY]

£20 pledged.

[jim mk2]

Tell you what, you put your name down to volunteer to go and help nurse the victims of ebola in Sierre Leone or wherever and I'll pay for your flight out.

There I've shown you my support now you show me just how humanitarian you really are.

My immaturity have been taken to an entirely new level.

Enough said.

[ABBEY]

is that a no?

[ultrablue]

Patient evac is a logistical nightmare. Made doubly difficult when the individual in question is highly contagious.From a safety aspect it would be logical to treat locally rather than risk spreading the disease. People do and have been known to escape quarantine (Including a US citizen suspected of carrying the ebola virus) As inhumane as it may sound to some, bringing them home is not the most sensible or indeed cost effective solution.

The difference here is that this woman had a known infection due to an accident with a needle. She was brought home within the 2 day incubation period and was therefore not contagious whilst being transported.

The hospital she is now at has successfully cured 2 out of 2 cases of Ebola. They nursed one aid worker back from a very critical state. The protocols are strict and well established.

In the US case you cite the returning aid worker showed no symptoms and all tests for Ebola were negative. She was discharged from hospital, but authorities asked her to self monitor and stay at home for 21 days. She didn't - she went out for a bike ride. To be honest, I think those actions were irresponsible in the sense that they gave ammunition to the fearmongers. But her "quarantine" was very different to that being imposed on a known Ebola patient in hospital.

By that statement you are suggesting thats how she got it! Your irresponsibility and immaturity have been taken to an entirely new level.

No we know how she got it. The scenarios I suggested were a list of what it would take for a random member of the public - such as Abbey's child or relative as he suggested, to contract the virus. It just ain't gonna happen.

Two. And the protocol here will be better eh? Are you certain?

Three..... Good grief! We owe her nothing, they owe her plenty.

Right-winger in "we owe nothing to sick British military nurse injured in the line of duty" shocker

[otto man]

And yet none of your justification negates the fact that it is logistically safer and more cost effective to treat outbreaks of this nature locally. To suggest otherwise is frankly ludicrous.

[ABBEY]

The difference here is that this woman had a known infection due to an accident with a needle. She was brought home within the 2 day incubation period and was therefore not contagious whilst being transported.

The hospital she is now at has successfully cured 2 out of 2 cases of Ebola. They nursed one aid worker back from a very critical state. The protocols are strict and well established.

In the US case you cite the returning aid worker showed no symptoms and all tests for Ebola were negative. She was discharged from hospital, but authorities asked her to self monitor and stay at home for 21 days. She didn't - she went out for a bike ride. To be honest, I think those actions were irresponsible in the sense that they gave ammunition to the fearmongers. But her "quarantine" was very different to that being imposed on a known Ebola patient in hospital.

No we know how she got it. The scenarios I suggested were a list of what it would take for a random member of the public - such as Abbey's child or relative as he suggested, to contract the virus. It just ain't gonna happen.

so you know that the nurses in uk wont get done but a needle here and spread it ?

how do you know IT JUST AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN?

[T J Hooker]

Probably but thats a cop out. Allow me to turn it ariound. How would you feel if a child or relative of yours somehow contracted the virus from someone importing it in this fashion?

imo They'd have to go on the understanding specified in their contracts.that treatment will only be given in the country of their work.

By that statement you are suggesting thats how she got it! Your irresponsibility and immaturity have been taken to an entirely new level.

I take your point, but your version is 100% fiction where as this nurse is actually a real person with family and loved ones hoping she gets the best help possible and considering the selfless sacrifices she's made to go over there in the 1st place to help people and children she's never met must make her a top candidate to get the very best treatment available even if there is a miniscule risk.

[ultrablue]

so you know that the nurses in uk wont get done but a needle here and spread it ?

how do you know IT JUST AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN?

There is a slim chance one of the nurses treating her may contract the virus. But again, they are professionals who will be tested daily.

There is no story here, other than the fact a brave selfless individual has fallen sick in the line of duty. We are giving her the best chance of survival.

[thenodrog]

There is a slim chance one of the nurses treating her may contract the virus. But again, they are professionals who will be tested daily.

There is no story here, other than the fact a brave selfless individual has fallen sick in the line of duty. We are giving her the best chance of survival.

Doesn't it take anywhere up to 21 days for the virus to incubate with it becoming contagious after as little as a week? just googled this and there is a graph illustrating the development period of the virus. http://www.vox.com/2014/10/21/7020519/Ebola-facts-maps-charts-graphics

Whatever you say there is a needless element of risk that this disease may be imported to this country and our population exposed to it. And for what? Just misguided sentimentallity at best. This sums the role of our leaders up best.

"The supreme function of statesmanship is to provide against preventable evils. In seeking to do so, it encounters obstacles which are deeply rooted in human nature."

[ABBEY]

There is a slim chance one of the nurses treating her may contract the virus. But again, they are professionals who will be tested daily.

There is no story here, other than the fact a brave selfless individual has fallen sick in the line of duty. We are giving her the best chance of survival.

SO SAY THIS SLIM CHANCE HAPPENS...nurse passes it to hubby, hubby passes it on somewhere and so on ...slim chance becomes epidemic.

I take your point, but your version is 100% fiction where as this nurse is actually a real person with family and loved ones hoping she gets the best help possible and considering the selfless sacrifices she's made to go over there in the 1st place to help people and children she's never met must make her a top candidate to get the very best treatment available even if there is a miniscule risk.

so you would be ok if this gets spread all over the UK so she can have good treatment?

On another topic I cant believe the 3 teenagers sent back from Turkey have been granted bail!!!!

they should be locked up and the key tossed . They are terrorists!!!!

[thenodrog]

Happen quicker if that same slim chance sneezes on a crowded rush hour tube as the infection becomes contagious.

Labour are fighting the forthcoming election and as most other issues are an embarrassment due to their record last term they are pinning most of their hopes on campaigning about our overstretched NHS. How do you think an ebola epidemic would impact on that service?

[K-Hod]

Happen quicker if that same slim chance sneezes on a crowded rush hour tube as the infection becomes contagious.

Labour are fighting the forthcoming election and as most other issues are an embarrassment due to their record last term they are pinning most of their hopes on campaigning about our overstretched NHS. How do you think an ebola epidemic would impact on that service?

They're all as pigs feeding from the same trough as far as I'm concerned. Labour are just essentially Diet Tory.

The same NHS that the Tories have made a thousand cuts to in an effort to try and justify privatisation. Disgraceful.

[Al]

I take your point, but your version is 100% fiction where as this nurse is actually a real person with family and loved ones hoping she gets the best help possible and considering the selfless sacrifices she's made to go over there in the 1st place to help people and children she's never met must make her a top candidate to get the very best treatment available even if there is a miniscule risk.

She is a very brave person who took a risk to help others. That risk did not pay off and that is very unfortunate but she took that risk with her eyes open and it is now unfair for the rest of the country to be put at risk, however small. She had a choice. We do not.

[Jock]

Nonce Police and politicians. Who'd have thought it.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I called in at my walk in centre at 6.30 this evening. I burnt part of my left hand quite badly last week with an Oxy-Acetylene torch and it's healing very slowly. I thought I'd go an see if they could give me some advice about it. I thought tea time would have been relatively quiet but the waiting room was packed and the lady on reception said the waiting time was 4 hrs which didn't surprise me at all. I came away.

I've had lots of experience of the Spanish health system with my late father in law and we never had to wait anything like that time in impoverished Southern Spain.

[Baz]

I called in at my walk in centre at 6.30 this evening. I burnt part of my left hand quite badly last week with an Oxy-Acetylene torch and it's healing very slowly. I thought I'd go an see if they could give me some advice about it. I thought tea time would have been relatively quiet but the waiting room was packed and the lady on reception said the waiting time was 4 hrs which didn't surprise me at all. I came away.

I've had lots of experience of the Spanish health system with my late father in law and we never had to wait anything like that time in impoverished Southern Spain.

Well its less than 4 hours flight time Tyrone......

The System really is crumbling, although for absolute emergencies the NHS is still just doing enough to cope.

[thenodrog]

I called in at my walk in centre at 6.30 this evening. I burnt part of my left hand quite badly last week with an Oxy-Acetylene torch and it's healing very slowly. I thought I'd go an see if they could give me some advice about it. I thought tea time would have been relatively quiet but the waiting room was packed and the lady on reception said the waiting time was 4 hrs which didn't surprise me at all. I came away.

I've had lots of experience of the Spanish health system with my late father in law and we never had to wait anything like that time in impoverished Southern Spain.

The NHS needs to start

a. charging a nominal fee (£10) for a visit to a Doctor.

b. introducing work friendly visiting hours with priority given to suit working people. People out of work / pensioners etc can go at less sociable times.

It's plain common sense to give priority to workers.

[ABBEY]

bloody hell gord i pay enough already. Would this include less national insurence?

[thenodrog]

bloody hell gord i pay enough already. Would this include less national insurence?

I'd believe that it should do.

tbh though Abbey if you know anyone involved they will tell you the waste that goes on, not only that but the length of waiting lists needs sorting for the good of the economy and the population.

If there is something wrong with me I give it a week or so to get right on it's own. If it doesn't then I want to see a doctor pdq and I'd be willing to pay a nominal fee to achieve it. The way it is now people need a crystal ball to know when they are going to be poorly.

[Baz]

I'd believe that it should do.

tbh though Abbey if you know anyone involved they will tell you the waste that goes on, not only that but the length of waiting lists needs sorting for the good of the economy and the population.

If there is something wrong with me I give it a week or so to get right on it's own. If it doesn't then I want to see a doctor pdq and I'd be willing to pay a nominal fee to achieve it. The way it is now people need a crystal ball to know when they are going to be poorly.

So those who can afford get to see the doctor, those who cant dont. How is that fair?

I can see merit in fines for those who repeatedly miss appointments, but the availability should be on a fair basis.

[Steve Moss]

So those who can afford get to see the doctor, those who cant dont. How is that fair?

I can see merit in fines for those who repeatedly miss appointments, but the availability should be on a fair basis.

I'm hardly an expert on National Health Insurance, but what's wrong with a nominal fee? Is $10 that significant in light of the modern world's safety net? A small fee, easily affordable by all, would thin out the crowd of those who were wandering because of a very minor ailment and/or just wanted someone to talk to, or any other number of non-pressing medical reasons clogging up the lines.

Or, to take Gord's example on step further, and perhaps address your concerns about cost, have times where there is a small fee and times where there is not, in order to help working folks get help sooner (and sooner back to producing income which can be taxed) and to streamline service to all.