[Archived] News comment

[jim mk2]

The 1980s and much of the 1990s were appalling decades. Manufacturing was sacrificed in order to teach the unions a lesson while vast swathes of the north were left to decline and decay. Meanwhile the Big Bang in the City let the financial services industry off the leash and led ultimately to the fiscal crisis of 2007 onwards and unbalanced southern dominated economy we have today.

[thenodrog]

Yes let's go back in a tardis, give power to overthrow any government it likes back to the unions, allow inflation to continue unabated, the dead to remain unburied and rubbish to pile up and rot in the streets and just pretend China and india dont exist eh?

[thenodrog]

When The Government start lying through it's teeth as the Thatcher Government did during the miners strike it's democracy that is the loser.

Government lies? Have you forgotten 'We will not devalue' Harold Wilson, 'Iraq's weapons of mass destruction' Tony Blair? Governments always lie or how else could they govern?

[Al]

Government lies? Have you forgotten 'We will not devalue' Harold Wilson, 'Iraq's weapons of mass destruction' Tony Blair? Governments always lie or how else could they govern?

Does that make what Thatcher did to the north of the country any better? I am not a Labour voter but what that woman did to the North of this country was pure evil.

[Mike E]

Does that make what Thatcher did to the north of the country any better? I am not a Labour voter but what that woman did to the North of this country was pure evil.

Allowing my then working class dad to earn a respectable living? Allowing my parents to buy their own home? Allowing them to save money and raise me without being a burden on the taxpayer? She did plenty wrong ofc. But she did plenty right that 'new labour' have utterly dismantled and that the current lot are making a pig's ear of rebuilding.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Allowing my then working class dad to earn a respectable living? Allowing my parents to buy their own home? Allowing them to save money and raise me without being a burden on the taxpayer? She did plenty wrong ofc. But she did plenty right that 'new labour' have utterly dismantled and that the current lot are making a pig's ear of rebuilding.

Yeah you sum her appeal up quite nicely there Mike. I, me, mine. Some of us could see beyond the end of our noses and beyond our own front door.

[perthblue02]

Yeah you sum her appeal up quite nicely there Mike. I, me, mine. Some of us could see beyond the end of our noses and beyond our own front door.

So its wrong to work and put your families well being first and pay your own way ?

[jim mk2]

Allowing my then working class dad to earn a respectable living? Allowing my parents to buy their own home? Allowing them to save money and raise me without being a burden on the taxpayer? She did plenty wrong ofc. But she did plenty right that 'new labour' have utterly dismantled and that the current lot are making a pig's ear of rebuilding.

You dad's lucky to have a living. Most of them around here were destroyed by the Thatcher govt. People except those with no vision can see that selling off council homes and discredited schemes such as Help to Buy are blatant election bribes.

[perthblue02]

You dad's lucky to have a living. Most of them around here were destroyed by the Thatcher govt. People except those with no vision can see that selling off council homes and discredited schemes such as Help to Buy are blatant election bribes.

Less than 7% of BWD's housing stock was sold at market value (minus longevity tenancy discounts) under the Tory government, the other 93% was sold by a Labour Council with full approval of a Labour government to a private housing company for less than a third of the market value

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Less than 7% of BWD's housing stock was sold at market value (minus longevity tenancy discounts) under the Tory government, the other 93% was sold by a Labour Council with full approval of a Labour government to a private housing company for less than a third of the market value

You know very well who started the ball rolling re the sale of council houses. Free money can be hard to resist. Just look at the shambles that is municipal housing now.

[perthblue02]

Of course I know, but a Labour (with Blair's lot I use it in it's broadest sense) government did not reverse the right to buy legislation when it came to power .

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Because it was " New lLabour ". Not a Socialist in sight.

[thenodrog]

So its wrong to work and put your families well being first and pay your own way ?

Gotta be some casualties in any revolution don't you know perth. Collateral damage I believe.

Because it was " New lLabour ". Not a Socialist in sight.

Is there now? Plenty of the champagne variety in Labour as produced by a variety of public schools. How many of the current Labour front bench have ever done a days work outside of Westminster? New Labour? More like New Hypocrites.

[Mike E]

For those who don't seem to get it, I am not particularly a supporter of Thatcher. I just consider that at the time, my parents (who lean to the left imo, although I don't know how they actually vote) benefited massively by pure chance from some of her ideas. As an electrician my father earned a pittance. Then there was a massive change towards 'work hard for better pay' and suddenly our family could live comfortably. It is probably a reason I am even alive in all honesty.

[Al]

Allowing my then working class dad to earn a respectable living? Allowing my parents to buy their own home? Allowing them to save money and raise me without being a burden on the taxpayer? She did plenty wrong ofc. But she did plenty right that 'new labour' have utterly dismantled and that the current lot are making a pig's ear of rebuilding.

No it's obvious you were not around at the time. She put the North of England out of work en bloc and made sure that the South East was all right Jack. I was Company Secretary of a large engineering company in Blackburn, established in 1836 and the bitch closed us down by taking all the Government Contracts off us and transferring them elsewhere. Pure uncaring evil.

Of course I know, but a Labour (with Blair's lot I use it in it's broadest sense) government did not reverse the right to buy legislation when it came to power .

Never did understand the logic of blaming the other party for not putting right what your party had got wrong.

Edit. To stop any confusion I will tell you that I voted Conservative at the last election and will do so at the next election but that woman was something else.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Al, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different outcome.

The company you refer to wasn't " Clayton-Goodfellow " was it ? I remember going to the auction there when they closed down, very sad.

I worked in the machine tool sector of the Engineering industry. When I started in 1965 our machine tool industry was the equal of any in the World. The Heath government gave it a bit of a caning but even in 1979 the sector was quite strong. By 1985/6 it was on the way out and by 1990 there was nothing left. All we have today is British based importers of foreign machines.

Mike's dad was extremely lucky if his standard of living increased during the Thatcher years, I know mine didn't and neither did that of my workmates.

It would have been too difficult to take council houses that had already been sold off back into public ownership. Having said that when the Thatcher government began selling off national utilities the Labour Party should have announced that they would re-nationalise them all without compensation. The sell off would have been a flop and we wouldn't have the current shambles.

[thenodrog]

No it's obvious you were not around at the time. She put the North of England out of work en bloc and made sure that the South East was all right Jack. I was Company Secretary of a large engineering company in Blackburn, established in 1836 and the bitch closed us down by taking all the Government Contracts off us and transferring them elsewhere. Pure uncaring evil.

Maybe there is a clue here about why those contracts were outsourced......

"Hugh Scanlon President of the Engineering Union

He joined the Communist Party of Great Britain in 1937 following the events of the Spanish Civil War and made use of its networks and organising skills to rise through the union, becoming a district official in 1947.

He left the Party in 1954 but continued as a "broad left" candidate within the union - winning the leadership in 1968. Scanlon and TGWU leader Jack Jones were known by the press as "The Terrible Twins" for their opposition to both Labour Party and Conservative Party attempts to restrict the power of the unions - Labour prime minister Harold Wilson once famously telling him to "get your tanks off my lawn."[1]

When Labour returned to office in 1974, Scanlon and Jones acted as go-betweens for Labour, communicating Labour's demands back and forth to Congress House. They were the prime movers within the union movement of the Social Contract which introduced strict wage controls and limits on strike action. This culminated in the 1978/79 Winter of Discontent, which was followed by the election of the Conservative Party, led by Margaret Thatcher, in 1979.

Scanlon was also opposed to Britain's membership in the EEC.[2]

Scanlon's political beliefs led to him being effectively blacklisted by the British security service from 1966 to 1977, it emerged years later.

In 1977, he was prevented from becoming chairman of British Shipbuilders because MI5 advised that he should not see documents marked "confidential" or above."

A person intent on Britain becoming a communist satellite of the USSR was hardly a person that a fierce patriot like Margaret Thatcher would take to too readily. Scanlon / Scargill / Jones / Robinson / McGahey etc put political ambition before their members and the nation.

and another one here...http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/2432632/UK-General-Election-2010-political-map.html

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Reading about it and living through it are two entirely separate concepts. Every company I worked for ran the company in exactly the manner they wished, for good or ill. Most of them closed, not because of over weaning union power but usually because of either asset stripping or relocation to other parts of the UK/ World. In my experience the engineering unions, especially in this neck of the woods, acted as a buffer between the work force and the management. The number of Marxists or Communists I knew and worked with I could count on the fingers of one hand.

Of course MI-5 wouldn't want the likes of Hughie Scanlon to have any involvement in those high profile jobs, they still thought the likes of Harold Wilson and Dennis Healey were security risks.

[Mike E]

Al, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different outcome.

The company you refer to wasn't " Clayton-Goodfellow " was it ? I remember going to the auction there when they closed down, very sad.

I worked in the machine tool sector of the Engineering industry. When I started in 1965 our machine tool industry was the equal of any in the World. The Heath government gave it a bit of a caning but even in 1979 the sector was quite strong. By 1985/6 it was on the way out and by 1990 there was nothing left. All we have today is British based importers of foreign machines.

Mike's dad was extremely lucky if his standard of living increased during the Thatcher years, I know mine didn't and neither did that of my workmates.

It would have been too difficult to take council houses that had already been sold off back into public ownership. Having said that when the Thatcher government began selling off national utilities the Labour Party should have announced that they would re-nationalise them all without compensation. The sell off would have been a flop and we wouldn't have the current shambles.

I'll have to ask him specifically, but he did appear to credit Thatcher with the family being better off. If I get anything that isn't too private, I'll share it as it may be worth adding to the debate

[thenodrog]

Mike's dad was extremely lucky if his standard of living increased during the Thatcher years, I know mine didn't and neither did that of my workmates.

I seem to rem that the Financial sector, Police, Armed Forces, Doctors and Nurses, Building industry all profitted under the Thatcher govt. Manufacturing and prodn suffered as a result of lack of cheap raw mats, employment legislation and higher production costs than the rest of the developing world. Swings and roundabouts I suppose.

Just as an aside I found myself in conversation with a rather preening Aussie at a Christmas Party who was gloating albeit subtly over the ashes capitulation. Anyway as the conversation moved on and I asked him why he was here and what he did. Turned out he is here through marriage and his career is with the H&S Exec. He was boring the pants off us about his job until I asked him how many unecessary deaths he thinks the H&S Exec have saved since their inception in the 80's. He was just in the middle of explaining that it was many thousands and giving me the stats when I cut him off by saying 'bollockks..... your figures might say that but in reallity you've just exported them..... and prob more besides!' Something between an awkward silence and a pregnant pause ensued BUT there's the rub, it's too simplistic to blame the govt / any govt cos how many jobs have been exported on the back of the overbearing H&S exec and biased employment law in general? Workers rights and excessive pay demands 30 years ago are all well and good but we are now seeing the payback.

[Al]

Al, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different outcome.

The company you refer to wasn't " Clayton-Goodfellow " was it ? I remember going to the auction there when they closed down, very sad.

I worked in the machine tool sector of the Engineering industry. When I started in 1965 our machine tool industry was the equal of any in the World. The Heath government gave it a bit of a caning but even in 1979 the sector was quite strong. By 1985/6 it was on the way out and by 1990 there was nothing left. All we have today is British based importers of foreign machines.

Mike's dad was extremely lucky if his standard of living increased during the Thatcher years, I know mine didn't and neither did that of my workmates.

It would have been too difficult to take council houses that had already been sold off back into public ownership. Having said that when the Thatcher government began selling off national utilities the Labour Party should have announced that they would re-nationalise them all without compensation. The sell off would have been a flop and we wouldn't have the current shambles.

You are correct. It was Clayton Goodfellow.

It had nothing at all to do with Hugh Scanlon Gordon.

[Mike E]

Update: It's cos my dad was an electrician. He told me that lots of work cropped up for him and other tradesmen once people were buying council houses. Simple as that.

However, he says that while he (and the family) benefitted, it was morally quite hard as he saw friends in other jobs out of work.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Yeah Mike, that sort of line of work probably benefitted a lot, look at all the self employed plumbers, joiners, painters etc. that have sprung up. However in my line of work that era was disasterous.

[Mike E]

I admit I'm quite happy I didn't live in that era. But for reasons I've disclosed to Tyrone Shoelaces, I'll not be too critical.

[Al]

Actually I came out of the situation well. Had a better paid job within a week at a startup company but a lot of my friends who worked on the shop floor had no jobs to go to. It's them I am angry about.