[Archived] RIP Nelson Mandela

[adopted scouser]

He reckons he's schizophrenic now.

It's what he keeps telling himself

[rhodie]

Re-elected himself I think not, he won over 61% of the vote which equate to just over 2.1 million votes, in elections that The African Union and its Observers called "free, honest and credible."

Yep! whilst holding a gun to that 61%`s head. Mugabe rigged the elections with massive amounts of intimidation, their were opposition voters turning up to their local polling booths only to be told that they had been "re-zoned" and they could now only vote 200 miles away, a great deal of that majority vote you talk about were well into their 90`s and 100 year old age range, funny that, because the average death age in the country is something like 40 years old. The African union is just as corrupt as Mugabe, here is a link you might find enlightening about saint Nelson.

http://censorbugbear-reports.blogspot.co.uk/2009/08/nobel-peace-laureate-nelson-mandelas.html?m=1

and another link regarding your hero Bob

http://www.genocidewatch.org/zimbabwe.html

Nelson and Bob, both child murdering terrorist scum I know, I was born in Zimbabwe and lived in South Africa for a considerable time.

[LDRover]

Top man is Bob.

No racism involved there. None at all.

[thenodrog]

Can't post links for some reason but how funny is that emerging story about the fake deaf and dumb interpreter who appeared at the side of the speakers simply waving his arms about at random! If he isn't a nutcase who actually thinks that what he is doing is meaningful just how tf does he manage to keep a straight face for so long? It's as funny as one of those emails that goes around highlighting hilarious but deadly working practices in the third world. Such a cock up that it makes me wonder if the Venkymob weren't involved in the organisation of the funeral.

Major league dodgepot now. The black on black abomination of 'Necklacing' is on his cv now it seems.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/12/16/mandela-signer-necklacing-murder_n_4453900.html?icid=maing-grid7|uk-ws-bb|dl1|sec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D230957

[broadsword]

what an appalling thing to do to a fellow human. Makes me sick.

[thenodrog]

They do say 'Life's cheap on the Dark Continent' remember Bryan.

[T.J.Newton]

They do say 'Life's cheap on the Dark Continent' remember Bryan.

Darwen?

[perthblue02]

Mandela, Ghandi, Mother Theresa, MLK Jnr....put them all in the same boat, all inspired millions however I can't get past their dark sides and downright evil and or violent nature of their actions

The most inspiring person I have ever seen is the Chinese man that stood in front of the tanks in Tiananmen Square...a man who had no weapons, no terrorist agenda and no violence

You know what they say, one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

Yes, but you don't know what he had in his little carrier bag

[ABBEY]

topman would ... He knows everything that happens when he ain't there don't ya know.

[Mike Graham]

Being a regular visitor to Zimbabwe I can tell you that quote certainly doesn't describe Zimbabwe, where they are no loner a colony, land reforms have been a huge success and they have just re-elected a President that will stand up for them to the worlds Imperialist's powers no matter what sanctions they throw at them.

The thing that has really annoyed me about Mandela's death is the fact that we have all the right wingers like Obama, Cameron, Blair, The Bush's, Hollande, Sarkozy, Merkel, Netanyahu and The Clinton's to name just a few coming out with these words that are words and nothing more about how inspirational Mandela was to them when in reality Mandela despised the politics that they stand for. Mandela's true friends who stood by him during his struggles were people like Fidel Castro, Muammar al-Gaddafi, Robert Mugabe, General Abdel Nasser and Yassir Arafat and they backed it up through their actions and not just meaningless words.

Arafat......murdering Kean. Thank goodness for the wall that keeps the bombers out.

[neekoy]

Yes, but you don't know what he had in his little carrier bag

Hokkien?

[perthblue02]

Hokkien?

Possibly, the extra spicy can be lethal

[Guest Norbert]

Arafat......murdering Kean. Thank goodness for the wall that keeps the bombers out.

And grabs that little bit more land, along with those settlements in Palestine. I do wonder why anyone would want to live in a house that has been built on land that has had former residents forced out, thus embittered and want to kill you. And now surround your estate. Anyway, that has little to do with Mandela, and can lead to a whole different subject.

As it is, I'm always suspicious about the idolisation of figures such as Mandela. Partially as I'm cynical enough to constantly think 'well they must have flaws', and partially because I remember the shameless, tasteless wailing and hysteria when Princess Diana died. I'm no royalist, but I had a lot of respect for her children as they were very dignified when millions of d_ckheads who never even met her were acting like dipsh_ts.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Arafat......murdering Kean. Thank goodness for the wall that keeps the bombers out.

Anybody pause to consider why The Palestinians felt the need to bomb Israelis ?

[thenodrog]

Anybody pause to consider why The Palestinians felt the need to bomb Israelis ?

You might like to tell us.

[Jeru tha Damaja]

You might like to tell us.

Maybe it was the lesson they learned from the success of Jewish terrorist groups that besieged a Palestinian population that had lived peacefully in the region for centuries.

Maybe it was the war that established a new nation on their territory and disenfranchised an already impoverished people.

Maybe it was the continual land-grabs in the following 65 years (and counting).

Maybe it was the last resort of a people that found themselves isolated and heavily outgunned.

Who knows?

[thenodrog]

Not me Jeru. Oh and you forgot a couple.....

maybe it was a partial result of backing the wrong horse in WW1

and/or

maybe it was as a result of the power the Jews held in the UK and particularly in the USA.

Dont look at what happened after partition.... look at what went on before.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

The Israelis remind me of the little bully at school who throws his weight around in the playground because his older brother in the hard case of the school.

Until the US wakens up to the amount of damage it's support for Israel is doing in the Middle East in particular and the World in general that part of the World will always be a festering sore.

If they had the political courage they could sort out the situation quite quickly.

[thenodrog]

The Israelis remind me of the little bully at school who throws his weight around in the playground because his older brother in the hard case of the school.

'little' bully? There aren't many 'little bullies' are there? Meanwhile the Arab nations remind me of a trouble making playground gang .

[Amo]

Until the US wakens up to the amount of damage it's support for Israel is doing in the Middle East in particular and the World in general that part of the World will always be a festering sore.

Seeing as the US is run by the Jewish lobby, how's that gonna work?

[Guest Norbert]

Exactly. Threaten/pressure Israel, and a lot of US based Jews would switch from your party to the other. And doesn't Florida have a lot of elderly Jewish people? That state has 27 or so seats in the electoral college and is one of the most important states in the Presidential elections. I imagine many east cost states also have a large Jewish bloc.

So it is obvious that no President or Congressman is going to really push to stop the military aid for Israel or get tough on their many acts of bad behaviour. We didn't even kick up a fuss over their identity theft when they killed that Hamas bloke in Dubai.

[CapeTownRover]

For once Jim, I think Gordon has a point in questioning where South Africa is right now. There is absolutely no doubt that Mandela has been a towering presence both in South Africa and across the world. His ability to forgive his enemies helped to allow South Africa to make a peaceful transition from the apartheid regime to the democratic nation it is now. And there's no doubt that the black majority are no longer "oppressed". Oh, and how anyone can bring up the "terrorist" label for Mandela with the background of the Sharpeville massacre is beyond me.

However, there still appears to be a long way to go for the country to have true integration. I was in South Africa two years ago and, certainly in the Western Cape, if you were in a restaurant overwhelmingly the customers were white and the staff black. The proper decent housing was in the white areas and the townships are still for the most part shanty towns. I was only briefly in Johannesburg but things did appear to be a bit better there.

We also went out to a small town on the High Veldt in Orange Free State a couple of hours south of Johannesburg to see the place where my wife's father was born. It was probably the most depressing place I've ever been to. The small town centre was where the small poor white community lived. The blacks had an awful township with little or no facilities about a mile away. The supermarket we went in only had alcohol, snacks and toilet rolls in it and there was a fight there within a minute of our arrival.

What will be important now will be for the country to continue it's progress towards a more integrated society and build on the work Mandela did. There must be a fear that his departure will open up the wounds he was able to heal.

with all due respect O2G, there are many restaurants and so on where the staff are black. There are many restaurants where the staff are white as well. In the Western Cape eg and esp Cape Town the place is fantastic if you know of the right places to go to. There are some amazing things to do, but it seems that most tourists do not stay long enough to view everything the place has to offer.

the Free State on the other hand like Pretoria, is very much inhabited by white South Africans, and to be precise Afrikaaners. Up country in JHB and so on on the High Veld its never the greatest places to go to in all honesty. Personally i would never want to live in Johannesburg, as its just a crap place with hardly much things to do.

[CapeTownRover]

Mandela, Ghandi, Mother Theresa, MLK Jnr....put them all in the same boat, all inspired millions however I can't get past their dark sides and downright evil and or violent nature of their actions

The most inspiring person I have ever seen is the Chinese man that stood in front of the tanks in Tiananmen Square...a man who had no weapons, no terrorist agenda and no violence

You know what they say, one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

so if you and your people were opressed, houses taken away and destroyed you would stand there and just allow it? Mandela and his people fought back against the White people who hurt them, and then when he was released from prison he forgave them. The people who lost everything in the Apartheid era were not so forgiving as him, and why should they? Its easy for alot of people to say this and that after never exepriencing the atrocities of the Apartheid regime, but listening to the stories being told in homes and theatres etc its disgusting. Today all religions, cultures etc are able to share the beaches, restaurants and so on without the need to be segrgated(sp).. Blacks are watching rugby and cricket, whites are following Bafana Bafana, and this would never have happened before. There was a reason and a very good one as to why Mandela and his people turned violent.

[neekoy]

Of course, like Hezbollah, the Taliban, IRA etc.....

I just prefer my activists more like Steve Biko and a little less, you know, terroristy like the Umkhonto we Sizwe and the ANC.

[only2garners]

with all due respect O2G, there are many restaurants and so on where the staff are black. There are many restaurants where the staff are white as well. In the Western Cape eg and esp Cape Town the place is fantastic if you know of the right places to go to. There are some amazing things to do, but it seems that most tourists do not stay long enough to view everything the place has to offer.

the Free State on the other hand like Pretoria, is very much inhabited by white South Africans, and to be precise Afrikaaners. Up country in JHB and so on on the High Veld its never the greatest places to go to in all honesty. Personally i would never want to live in Johannesburg, as its just a crap place with hardly much things to do.

I'm sure there may be some restaurants with a lot of white staff - you live there and I only visited for about three weeks, mostly in the Western Cape. But that wasn't our experience as tourists. In the tourist areas the only white staff we saw would be in management roles. We also went to a number of black communities, including spending a day in Gugulethu and I don't think I saw a white face all day apart from in the group I was with.

We were on a tour visiting Fair Trade projects so we went to a lot of black and coloured communities in both the Northern and Western Capes and to many places where tourists would not usually go. We saw lots of very inspiring projects and lots of progress being made, but we came away with the feeling that there was a long way to go until full equality.

As I mentioned in my brief visit to Johannesburg it did seem as though there was a larger black middle class there but I accept I wasn't there ,omg enough to get a proper view. And you're right about the rural High Veldt - a godawful place to live.