[Archived] Rovers v Millwall: Ewood Park - December 14th, KO - 3pm

[roversfan99]

I know the club is constantly surrounded by negativity, and this is something that I have got used to in the past 3 years - however I still do not understand the whole "Jason's not good enough" debate.

Ignoring such facts like he has played for every level of England up to u21 or (not to mention) has filled in at both centre back and right back. Or forgetting that he has been picked to play Mark Hughes, Sam Allardyce etc. (managers with much better understanding of football than yourselves)

He is one of our best players - simple as. You'd have to be either ignorant or an imbecile (most likely both) to not see the effect he has on a game. The work rate and commitment, sheer speed and agility are his strengths. I agree he is not creative, when SK played him on the wing he was ineffectual (but that's why SK is in brunei) - however you need players like Lowe in the team to give the more creative players the ball back.

I have watched football for 20+ years, always looked deeper than who scores or sets up the goals. The way Jason breaks up play is a joy to behold, and I think he is compliments Lee Williamson's creativity, understanding and experience. (something Jason doesn't have) I also think GB should be commended for keeping him in the position over Cairney, who is not a BRFC player. It shows how he rates Cairney though,(by playing him in a weaker position) and hopefully we will get him for keeps.

If your comparing Jason to worldies like Tugay, (which is easy to do considering it wasn't to long ago when he wore blue and white) it's easy to be negative - but for this level at this time, Jason would likely get into most championship teams. If he continues to improve - I see him being a top flight box to box.

I don't think Hughes ever could pick him, and he was rarely used by Big Sam, maybe once or twice but he only broke through at first as a right back under Kean.

Williamson's creativity? He is for me a defensive midfielder like Lowe, and we should only play 1 at a time. Cairney dictates the play from the centre, his passing accuracy was again over 90% and he is the one to compliment a holding midfielder. With Evans out, it's between Williamson and Lowe (I'll forget about Marrow).

Williamson is better on the ball, something which is a big weakness of Lowe, yes I understand that isn't necessarily the main asset a holding midfielder should have, but it should be at least adequate which I don't think it is the case with Lowe. Lowe is definitely more athletic and has better stamina, whereas Williamson is much better positionally, meaning that both have an aspect to their game that can allow them to clear up behind our more attacking midfielders, whilst Cairney sits deep beside one of them and sprays passes. Williamson is also slightly braver in the tackle but neither are as aggressive as is necessary.

I am happy with either of them as long as it is next to Cairney, and if we sign Cairney I would play him and Evans sitting. I would go for Williamson for now but I understand what either brings to the team. However, in my opinion both Williamson and Lowe damages the balance of the team.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

I don't think Hughes ever could pick him, and he was rarely used by Big Sam, maybe once or twice but he only broke through at first as a right back under Kean.

Williamson's creativity? He is for me a defensive midfielder like Lowe, and we should only play 1 at a time. Cairney dictates the play from the centre, his passing accuracy was again over 90% and he is the one to compliment a holding midfielder. With Evans out, it's between Williamson and Lowe (I'll forget about Marrow).

Williamson is better on the ball, something which is a big weakness of Lowe, yes I understand that isn't necessarily the main asset a holding midfielder should have, but it should be at least adequate which I don't think it is the case with Lowe. Lowe is definitely more athletic and has better stamina, whereas Williamson is much better positionally, meaning that both have an aspect to their game that can allow them to clear up behind our more attacking midfielders, whilst Cairney sits deep beside one of them and sprays passes. Williamson is also slightly braver in the tackle but neither are as aggressive as is necessary.

I am happy with either of them as long as it is next to Cairney, and if we sign Cairney I would play him and Evans sitting. I would go for Williamson for now but I understand what either brings to the team. However, in my opinion both Williamson and Lowe damages the balance of the team.

Kean gave Lowe his debut in midfield against Arsenal so Big Sam never played him.

[Majiball]

... or how much they fear and respect the manager.

just look at united pretty much the same team as last season to see the difference it makes.

[JBiz]

I thought the substitute appearance at chelsea was under Hughes - if it was 2011 then this is impossible. Apologies.

[thenodrog]

However, even when praising him you can't help but lace it with a backhanded compliment.

?

Care to explain Amarillo? Do you actually mean a backhanded criticism? I thought my comments were valid, which bit offended you?

[LDRover]

Cairney had over 90% pass success rate on Saturday??

For someone trying to create that's one impressive stat. I'd also hazard a guess he covered as much ground and made as many tackles as J-Lo. He was certainly my MOM.

[chaddyrovers]

I don't think Hughes ever could pick him, and he was rarely used by Big Sam, maybe once or twice but he only broke through at first as a right back under Kean.

Big Sam never picked Lowe for the first team.

Kean gave Lowe his debut in midfield against Arsenal so Big Sam never played him.

Jason Lowe made his debut at Home to QPR in the FA cup game. we won 1 nil with Hoilett scoring

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

You could always tell the difference when Rovers were playing a truly top side like Ferguson's United. They always worked so much harder than us off the ball in terms of both closing us down and making space and having multiple options available when they had the ball.

That part of the game isn't so much down to talent but how badly the players want it and how prepared they are to go that extra yard.

Yeah you're right. It's about what's beating under the badge and never being prepared to take a backwards step. Movement off the ball and supporting your fellow players in attack and defence is really hard work but it doesn't demand great skills. It's simple stuff - " When you've got the ball make the pitch as big as you can, when the opposition have the ball make the pitch as small as you can ". We haven't done that for years.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Rovers' display away to Celtic in the Uefa Cup under Souness was the best I have ever seen from a Rovers side - and that includes the very fine 1960s team. Then we lost to a late header, which proves that results are everything and style counts for nothing.

We played well that night, how we lost I'll never know. Having said that I've seen us play better than that several times Jim. Somebody else mentioned the Plymouth game, we were great that day especially the second half but you have to remember the level we were playing at then. I'd say the Derby play-off performance and the " Death in the Sun" massacre of the Dingles were better performances than the Plymouth game.

[XLM]

Weird isn't it Leonard? I've witnessed it for decades and the selection of a scapegoat amongst the know nowts mimics the spread of a virus.

Easy..... Cos I'm right on both counts. AND unlike you and your chums I make my own mind up about a player rather than emulate the ovine species by letting the opinions of the less perceptive influence me. Just as an aside Suarez is now seen to be the worldie that I said he was last spring when the selfrighteous were up in arms about him biting that Russian and recommending that he never play again in this country.

btw I stand by my opinion of JR on Sat here...http://www.brfcs.com/mb/index.php/topic/29796-jordan-rhodes/?p=1469771

What do you find inaccurate or incorrect in what I wrote amarillo?

Whether you're wrong or right I couldn't care less, you certainly are (or at least come across as) an arse hole.

[Amo]

?

Care to explain Amarillo? Do you actually mean a backhanded criticism? I thought my comments were valid, which bit offended you?

"As for JR he did put a decent shift in and wasn't as anonymous as we all know he can be"

Backhanded compliment. You can't resist a sly dig at the guy even when he has a good game. Like I said, you're no one to preach to others about scapegoating.

[Gav]

Rovers' display away to Celtic in the Uefa Cup under Souness was the best I have ever seen from a Rovers side - and that includes the very fine 1960s team. Then we lost to a late header, which proves that results are everything and style counts for nothing.

Not sure about that Jim, it could start a thread of its own, best you've ever seen from a Rovers side.

That said we hammered Celtic that night, pity we couldn't finish off the job in the second leg.

[thenodrog]

"As for JR he did put a decent shift in and wasn't as anonymous as we all know he can be"

Backhanded compliment. You can't resist a sly dig at the guy even when he has a good game. Like I said, you're no one to preach to others about scapegoating.

Does backhanded mean 'accurate' in your world? It's been widely acknowledged that JR has been virtually anonymous in matches for over two months. When he isn't scoring he is a passenger.

btw To your shame imo you missed out my description of his goal 'sublime' on purpose in an attempt to prove your point. Why didn't you quote the lot?

Whether you're wrong or right I couldn't care less, you certainly are (or at least come across as) an arse hole.

Duly noted XLM. I don't know you so I will refrain from comment. However I must say you are helping me form an impression of you.

[rossyrover]

Just read Parson Blue match report and I must agree it was brass monkeys at Ewood on saturday I'm still thawing out but even though it was a win it was a poor performance from the Rovers against a Millwall team who passed the ball with greater speed and accuracy,in fact I was surprised how effective Millwall as a team were given some of their results.

The goal from Jordan Rhodes was a great finish number 12 for the season what a goal scorer this boy is,the defence looked for long periods very dodgy,our goalkeeper Simon Eastwood looks to small too command that position especially on corners when put under pressure by tall opposition defenders and strikers although I must admit his kicking is much better than Jake Kean both in my opinion are not good enough and we need Paul Robinson back ASAP.

Ben Marshal was imo man of the match and had a fine overall game,Tom Cairney was not his usual effective self and Josh King was his usual frustrating self when will ever look up and pass the ball.

[SoldierMo]

As for gested if im correct his only here til jan hasnt put much of an impression id try lookin elsewer

[JAL]

Going off the brief video highlights Dann, again, and Eastwood second goal, certainly dont cover themselves in glory. Whilst its also noticeable that you dont see much of JLowe being involved in either attack or defence of any of the goals from the game.

[cesus]

Going off the brief video highlights Dann, again, and Eastwood second goal, certainly dont cover themselves in glory. Whilst its also noticeable that you dont see much of JLowe being involved in either attack or defence of any of the goals from the game.

For the first although it was calamity falling and tripping by the defence Taylor should have had the awareness to cover Waghorn at the back post rather than stopping with his hands on his hips outside the box. I could see Henley had two men during the whole build up so should Taylor, Henley went for the first man and the ball went to the second and the rest is history.

[thenodrog]

Going off the brief video highlights Dann, again, and Eastwood second goal, certainly dont cover themselves in glory. Whilst its also noticeable that you dont see much of JLowe being involved in either attack or defence of any of the goals from the game.

:lol:

[Parsonblue]

As for gested if im correct his only here til jan hasnt put much of an impression id try lookin elsewer

I suspect the deal for Gestede is already done which is why they aren't too concerned about rushing him into the team after his recent injuries.

"As for JR he did put a decent shift in and wasn't as anonymous as we all know he can be"

Backhanded compliment. You can't resist a sly dig at the guy even when he has a good game. Like I said, you're no one to preach to others about scapegoating.

From the performances of Rhodes in recent weeks prior to Saturday it would seem a fairly accurate statement.

[Rover_Shaun]

One things for sure if you think Lowe is a footballer it puts you firmly as the frontrunner for king of the "know nowts"*

*copyright of thenodrog

Lowe being in the team highlights how far into the depths the club has plummeted

[JAL]

For the first although it was calamity falling and tripping by the defence Taylor should have had the awareness to cover Waghorn at the back post rather than stopping with his hands on his hips outside the box. I could see Henley had two men during the whole build up so should Taylor, Henley went for the first man and the ball went to the second and the rest is history.

For the first, i'd be picking on Rovers two centre halfs, Dann comes out to shadow defend the forward, who he allows to play a forward pass into our box (wtf), to which Grant fails to cut out the pass. For me this is key moments in that first Millwall goal cant blame anyone else if your two centre halfs have gone on a mental walkabout.

Millwall opened us up with relative ease on that first goal which cant be comforting for the manager but at least Grant Hanley won Rovers that third goal which is something I very much doubt Dann would have done in being so strong as to win a heading dual.

[Amo]

Does backhanded mean 'accurate' in your world? It's been widely acknowledged that JR has been virtually anonymous in matches for over two months. When he isn't scoring he is a passenger.

It's also widely acknowledged that Jason Lowe brings very little to the side, yet you defend him to the hilt whilst continuing to single Rhodes out whenever we have a bad result.

btw To your shame imo you missed out my description of his goal 'sublime' on purpose in an attempt to prove your point. Why didn't you quote the lot?

You want a medal for stating the obvious?

From the performances of Rhodes in recent weeks prior to Saturday it would seem a fairly accurate statement.

Is that necessarily the fault of Rhodes or a wider problem with the team? It's proven if you give Jordan the service he'll score. If he hasn't kept up his end of the bargain, that suggests the rest of the side hasn't kept up theirs.

[Tom]

? Is that necessarily the fault of Rhodes or a wider problem with the team? It's proven if you give Jordan the service he'll score. If he hasn't kept up his end of the bargain, that suggests the rest of the side hasn't kept up theirs.

Piffle

You are just assuming (or maybe more accurately questioning) the reason he didn't play well in those games is because of others around him

The two home games previous to this one he was just bad, wasteful on the ball and not showing the same kind of runs he did this week. This week he was great and played the role brilliantly though and deserves a lot of praise his goal was one nobody else in the team would score and at the same time he was worthy of criticism in the previous home games

[Amo]

Piffle

You are just assuming (or maybe more accurately questioning) the reason he didn't play well in those games is because of others around him

The two home games previous to this one he was just bad, wasteful on the ball and not showing the same kind of runs he did this week. This week he was great and played the role brilliantly though and deserves a lot of praise his goal was one nobody else in the team would score and at the same time he was worthy of criticism in the previous home games

I'm not too fussed, to be honest. Had Drog said "Rhodes put in a decent shift" and left it at that, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. However, he couldn't resist taking a swipe at him even when giving credit where it was due. Rhodes has more good games than bad ones. That's why he's a 20+ goal a season striker. That doesn't stop people like Drog scapegoating him for not being the complete player whenever we lose a game.

[roversfan99]

But he has a valid point. You would need to see the games to see that Rhodes has been poor in a fair few games in recent weeks, and his lack of contribution in terms of hold up is magnified when his goals dry up.

Most of the praise for his performance on Saturday from people who attended like myself have been for his hold up play; he held up the ball well, put himself around, used his intelligence, to be fair, maybe you have a point in regards to supply, in terms of I have noticed that anything in the air to him is basically giving the ball to the other team, whereas Rhodes can sometimes do better with accurate low passes into the channels, or passes to his feet or chest, but he is often marshalled far too easily.

Alot of his goals are like the one on Saturday, an excellent finish made to look easy. He is obviously our best player but he hasn't been good enough recently so the point was fair.