[Archived] Sgt. Alex Blackman

[Steve Moss]

I was getting caught up on my reading of your papers, when I came across this story:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/447339/Thousands-call-for-release-of-Sgt-Alex-Blackman-after-Royal-Marine-handed-life-sentence

Here's more details: http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/442063/War-hero-requests-leniency-for-Royal-Marine-who-executed-Taliban-insurgent

Essentially, one of your Marines, by all accounts an decent man and an excellent Marine, cracked and murdered a wounded (and armed) Taliban soldier on the battlefield.

I'm not defending him. He did wrong and should be punished. But a life sentence? That's insane.

Your minister, Philip Hammond, who seems like a first class limp wrist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Hammond) has denied his appeal. I'm not certain that anyone who hasn't been in combat can understand the stresses Sgt. Blackman was under, especially being in combat against foes like the Taliban, who enjoy torturing and murdering the servicemen they capture, but Mr. Hammond is a disgrace, in my opinion.

If you are a UK citizen or resident, you can sign an e-petition, if you are interested in helping Sgt. Blackman: https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/56810

If you aren't a UK citizen or resident, but are interested in expressing support for him, here's the Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/freeroyalmarineA?hc_location=timeline

[Tom]

I won't comment too much without knowing all the ins and outs (I find 'rules' in war a little odd) but he has essentially done himself with what he said not just what he did

He knew exactly that it was breaking the convention and tried to cover it up and that being recorded has made it hard for him to claim heat of battle etc

[broadsword]

Life imprisonment is a joke.

If anything, he should be getting help and treated sympathetically. I know it was wrong, but that's a dirty war out there and it was an enemy combatant that he killed. There's a case to be made that he wasn't acting completely in possession of his own mind. I can well imagine fighting out there can really mess your head up, the combat stress must be horrendous.

Certainly the shitbag he killed won't be missed in this world.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

He got off lightly in my opinion. He knew exactly what he was doing. If that isn't cold blooded murder I don't know what is.

[adopted scouser]

Life imprisonment is a joke.

If anything, he should be getting help and treated sympathetically. I know it was wrong, but that's a dirty war out there and it was an enemy combatant that he killed. There's a case to be made that he wasn't acting completely in possession of his own mind. I can well imagine fighting out there can really mess your head up, the combat stress must be horrendous.

Certainly the shitbag he killed won't be missed in this world.

All of the above.

[Jeru tha Damaja]

It's not about how the enemy suffers, it's about the standards we set for ourselves. That is why when they do something unspeakable we do not assume the right to reply in kind.

It is why we set rules for the conduct of our armed forces and why we conduct trials. We must have accountability, even in difficult situations, and if we allow soldiers to abdicate responsibility for their actions then we are opening the door to the kind of barbarism that we claim to deplore.

If we allow those ideals to wither away then what way of life are we asking the army to protect?
(We'll take the party line rather than turning this into a politically-charged discussion about motives for war.)

The claim of mitigating factors is thin. Regardless of the circumstances of the tour and his private grief for his father, Blackman callously discussed the murder of this man with his colleagues before casually strolling up to an incapacitated enemy, drawing his sidearm and killing him. He then even acknowledges that his actions were illegal and exhorts the others to keep it quiet. There was no imminent danger, no altered state of mind, no inability to comprehend the consequences.

In light of all that, what sort of punishment was he expecting?

[thenodrog]

He got off lightly in my opinion. He knew exactly what he was doing. If that isn't cold blooded murder I don't know what is.

Got off lightly? Life sentence? Obviously you are fully in favour of the death penalty?

It takes two to Tango.....

"The Marines shot the terrorist at a time when Taliban was conducting an indiscriminate bombing campaign of both civilians and Western forces in Helmand. The sergeant’s own Commando Brigade had lost seven dead and 42 wounded. The insurgents had dismembered some of the dead (possibly before they died) and hung their body parts off trees, for the delectation of their surviving comrades.

Soon thereafter three of the survivors, including the Shakespearean scholar, shot one of the presumptive dismemberers. The sergeant may well be convicted by the court martial, and this may well be just, but I doubt he will be blamed by his comrades who know that any day their own body parts may be found dangling off trees.

Stating the case for the prosecution, David Perry, QC, said that the victim “was entitled to be treated with dignity and respect.” Well, respect is a two-way street. Expecting soldiers to respect those who butcher and carve up their comrades is presuming too much on human goodness".

Faced with the terrors of Afghaistan the ONLY mistake Sgt Blackman made was in not putting a couple of rounds through the head camera too. We want fighting men in the army in fact we need them. Who wants the Marines to turn out like guests at a vicars and tarts party? Lets not turn our noses up when they do their job to the best of their ability cos it's what we recruit them for.

I doubt putting a bullet through someones head is all that easy tbh. Certainly not as easy as pontificating from an armchair in front of the telly. Something makes me pretty certain that you wouldn't have the balls to do it Tyrone.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Got off lightly? Life sentence? Obviously you are fully in favour of the death penalty?

It takes two to Tango.....

"The Marines shot the terrorist at a time when Taliban was conducting an indiscriminate bombing campaign of both civilians and Western forces in Helmand. The sergeant’s own Commando Brigade had lost seven dead and 42 wounded. The insurgents had dismembered some of the dead (possibly before they died) and hung their body parts off trees, for the delectation of their surviving comrades.

Soon thereafter three of the survivors, including the Shakespearean scholar, shot one of the presumptive dismemberers. The sergeant may well be convicted by the court martial, and this may well be just, but I doubt he will be blamed by his comrades who know that any day their own body parts may be found dangling off trees.

Stating the case for the prosecution, David Perry, QC, said that the victim “was entitled to be treated with dignity and respect.” Well, respect is a two-way street. Expecting soldiers to respect those who butcher and carve up their comrades is presuming too much on human goodness".

Faced with the terrors of Afghaistan the ONLY mistake Sgt Blackman made was in not putting a couple of rounds through the head camera too. We want fighting men in the army in fact we need them. Who wants the Marines to turn out like guests at a vicars and tarts party? Lets not turn our noses up when they do their job to the best of their ability cos it's what we recruit them for.

I doubt putting a bullet through someones head is all that easy tbh. Certainly not as easy as pontificating from an armchair in front of the telly. Something makes me pretty certain that you wouldn't have the balls to do it Tyrone.

No doubt members of the Waffen SS would have used the same rationale when they shot unarmed British POW's in WW 2. The ones that we caught were hung.

[Jeru tha Damaja]

No doubt members of the Waffen SS would have used the same rationale when they shot unarmed British POW's in WW 2. The ones that we caught were hanged.

They also went to the effort of trials for Nazis. A nicety that we have dispensed with recently as the trends of extrajudicial executions and detention without charge have escalated.

The only problem I see with the sentence handed to Mr Blackman is that the government that has damned and disowned him is guilty of the same crimes on a larger scale. He actually represents them rather beautifully, but they can't acknowledge the symmetry.

[thenodrog]

Lots of missions by armed forces (especially covert ones) past and present by absolute necessity preclude the taking of enemy prisoners.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Lots of missions by armed forces (especially covert ones) past and present by absolute necessity preclude the taking of enemy prisoners.

That may be true but whenever the guilty men were caught they felt the full weight of military justice. Obviously any such extra judicial action is in contravention of the Geneva convention and should be treated accordingly. If you read the history of similar events in WW2 some German troops went to the scaffold for less.

[thenodrog]

So when the SAS etc are dropped behind enemy lines out of uniform to complete a particular covert mission and then make their own way back you think they should make prisoners of anybody that tries to apprehend them and march them in daylight through mile after mile of enemy territory? Because of the Geneva convention they are effectively 'on their own' as the armed forces cannot admit to them being on an official mission. Loads of necessary stuff got done until the press stuck their noses in... in Gibralter, Loughall and Strabane in Northern Ireland the Iranian Embassy seige etc etc. All actions that were designed to save innocent lives. Nobody is advocating wholesale slaughter else we could have easily nuked the lot of them but you cannot fight a war or conflict according to the Queensbury rules when the enemy is not adhering to the same rules, nor can you from the comfort of your front room.

Rem..... He who shoots first wins Rodders.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

That's what the Nazi's thought as well, so they shot as many SAS prisoners as they could.

[Guest Norbert]

It's all a bit Sepp Dietrich for me, though I can understand why he shot the Taliban guy. I'd probably be tempted to after they spent hours trying to kill me.

[thenodrog]

It's all a bit Sepp Dietrich for me, though I can understand why he shot the Taliban guy. I'd probably be tempted to after they spent hours trying to kill me.

Can't be long before someone comes on here calling for rat catchers to be brought before the beak.

[Guest Norbert]

Oh I see, the Taliban loon is a rat. Yeah, I sort of agree with that, but there is an argument that we should 'take the moral high ground' even in such difficult circumstances.

That's one reason why I never joined the armed forces, if I got PTSD, I'd probably become some sort of Travis Bickle/Josef Stalin type of mentalist. That, and I'd never get myself fit enough as it is too much like hard work (I can't run).

[DE.]

Perhaps if we weren't over there shooting and blowing things up we wouldn't have to worry about stuff like this. Just a thought.

[thenodrog]

Perhaps if we weren't over there shooting and blowing things up we wouldn't have to worry about stuff like this. Just a thought.

Correct... we'd still be shooting religous nutters of course cos the issue is still there but instead of in ditches it'd be on our streets, our buses and the underground.

any more thoughts DE?

[DE.]

Yeah course it would bloody hell.

[Guest Norbert]

These wars have been great for recruiting British Muslims to odious groups like the Taliban if nothing else. Afghanistan had a clear objective-get Bin Laden, though history tells us the natives are not exactly mild mannered types who like to listen to The Archers and do crosswords. So we were always going to be in that awful place for a while since we wanted to build a civilised country.

Iraq is the really needless war that ballsed everything up. Apart from a blatant grab for oil, all that has done is encourage the 'West wants to destroy Muslims' nonsense the Al-Qaeda lot pump out (whilst of course ignoring all the Muslim vs. Muslim fighting that has gone on for years).

I am not sure that we'd have so many angry Muslims if we stayed at home, and the terrorist attacks that have happened may not have taken place without the propaganda coup the failing extremist cause had over the last 10-15 years.

[thenodrog]

These wars have been great for recruiting British Muslims to odious groups like the Taliban if nothing else.

9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan etc will only have germinated seeds, but those seeds were planted during infancy in the thousands of madrassas and mosques.

[Jeru tha Damaja]

9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan etc will only have germinated seeds, but those seeds were planted during infancy in the thousands of madrassas and mosques.

I take it you've witnessed this indoctrination first-hand?

Of course, if you hadn't been to a mosque and listened to (and understood) what was being taught then you'd have absolutely no basis to your claim apart from the media sensationalism that builds the idea that every mosque in the country is a carbon copy of Finsbury Park, and that would be an embarrassingly lazy and inaccurate generalisation.

[thenodrog]

I take it you've witnessed this indoctrination first-hand?

Of course, if you hadn't been to a mosque and listened to (and understood) what was being taught then you'd have absolutely no basis to your claim apart from the media sensationalism that builds the idea that every mosque in the country is a carbon copy of Finsbury Park, and that would be an embarrassingly lazy and inaccurate generalisation.

Hey... How did you know Jeru? Or was it just a guess?