[Archived] Boxing Day, Rovers v Weds, 26th December 2013

[yoda's brother]

He was exceptional against Yoevil by all accounts, just the sort of player we need to pull the strings when fit.

The manager is playing him sparingly, like the club did with Tugay, nothing wrong with that in my book.

so maybe he wasnt injured then

[Majiball]

As we were being overrun in midfield at the time I thought it was exactly the correct decision.

Do you think he had another move that would have alleviated the pressure but allowed us to regain control of the match?

[Stuart]

Cos as is oft quoted the Blackburn supporters are not a crowd... they are a jury!

Too many know nowts in our lot who constitute a spoilt generation manufactured by the Walker years. Bowyer is doing a good job imo after the preceding 3 years of corruption.

Ironically, that quote (Iley?) was well before the "Walker years". That's Blackburn folk for you, any nothing to do with the under-30s demographic.

For example, I was passing the car park across from the Thwaites theatre on the way to the ground and I greeted the attendant (who was in his late 50s/early 60s) with a fairly warm, festive cheer and he responded with a "Oh, are you going to that OTHER pantomime?". Funny keaner. But that's typical of Blackburn folk of the pre-Walker years. A jury indeed.

[thenodrog]

But let's say that's true, that we don't have any other players capable of unlocking a defence (even when Rhodes has occupied two defenders) why does Gordon keep advocating that we drop/sub him.

What we need is better midfielders!

One can only wee with the willy they are holding.

Yesterday after the enforced change the two Ch's had your hero in their arse pockets. His race was well and truly run after 60 mins. Whether it is his ability to withstand such attention or it is the inability of the squad to provide him with the service he craves is completely irrelevent. He should have been taken off 2nd half for all the good he was. Our goal tally after 94 mins score rather confirms my opinion wouldn't you say?

[TBTF]

At last someone gets it.

Regardless of the league table and people telling us it was a game we would win easily, Wednesday were running us ragged in places (particularly through and down their left hand side) and looked as likely to create a goal scoring chance as we did

No they didn't have as many "chances" as us if you reckon we had the crafty free kick that put Rhodes (still far from as clinical with his left foot as he ought to be ) in, Gestede's burst through, a couple of King forays to the byline etc but you would expect any home team to fashion the odd opportunity...if you looked at the game analytically Wednesday for long periods played football a little slicker and crisper than ours and knocked it about with confidence belying their record and position in the league

When it's 0-0 you're always on a knife edge and while many imagine on the basis of 20 minutes at Derby and a fancy shot at Yeovil that Rochina, who has failed to win a regular place and become a serial match winner over almost 3 years here, is the magic wand man who will win us any game, if he was as good as they believe he'd be starting every game

I expected nothing more than a mid-table season with a young, inexperienced manager making an odd mistake here and there this season and I'm constantly surprised that people are surprised by exactly that!

Yes it is possible to settle on a system and trust a group of players if you know your best starting XI every week - It pains me to say our neighbours at proof of that - but I think that Gary, even with greater resources, is nowhere near the manager Dyche is yet so we need to lower our sights accordingly

It's self-defeating to keep looking at the table and saying "we're only three points off this and four points off that" - we're 11th or 12th or whatever and however close we feel we are to getting there, there are four or five sides (and watch Wigan come good after Christmas) with equal aspirations

We are a reasonably decent mid-table Championship side which will win a few, lose a few, draw a few.

I haven't seen a shred of evidence to suggest we'll even last as long dreaming about play offs - as we did last season when people had us as certainties after the Arsenal win - and look how that ended up

Its a conundrum i struggle with at Rovers. We beg to play 2 up top and when we do we look overrun in midfield.Yesterday i think we did neither by Gestede playing where he did.I think we all thought 2 up top meant the big lad going for the headers and Jordan feeding off the knock downs but in reality Jordan was having to do the heading.

So were we ever set up right from the start ?? I keep banging on about Marshall but he isnt what we need out wide (not good enough), he isnt what we need in the hole (not good enough) so why did we buy him when money was tight and we had already brought in others (Judge. taylor) who could do that job.

Some of Bowyers signings look a bit sub standard and also not particulalrly well thought through in terms of where they will be accommodated.When Cairney went off yesterday i couldnt help feel that we might be getting ready to let him return to Hull and learning to live with the marshalls the williamsons and the Lowes prior to Evans coming back.

So Bowyers claim that we need to realise where we had come from is a bit rich because most of us know. If he meant realise where he had come from then thats more appropriate!! But when all is said and done .. what is the plan? is it promotion at all costs because if so we are going to be sorely disappointed.

Then we are back to what happens next season and i just dont think i have got the energy to put up with all this bullsh1te speak again for another season.

As Abbey said earlier its going to be a big job to get fans on board again beyond this season unless something significant happens.

Stability= boredom and mediocrity and its costing the club a fortune to achieve it!!

[jim mk2]

No but it's getting a bit tiring after every game that we either don't win or Rhodes doesn't score in.

We have the finishing all boxed off, we need to sort out the midfield now. Lowe and Williamson are not what we need.

In other news, I note with interest that NO-ONE has pointed out Lowe's glaring miss with an open net at his mercy. Poor positioning and/or terrible technique, but the untouchable/undroppable Lowe escapes any criticism.

Your constant criticism of Lowe is tiring too. You've made your point (many times) so leave it be.

[Stuart]

Correct. Constitutes wisdom in my book. From 45 minutes on and Taylor was replaced by King we couldn't get out of our own half. The smart money would have been on us losing at that point. How would you have approached it Stuart?

imo Sheff Wed would have won if they had had a striker of quality.

I would have gone all out to get in a midfielder rather than Gestede - who is looking a rather poor acquisition thus far. This midfielder would then have been brought on for Taylor. Rochina would have started alongside Rhodes instead of Gestede and Lowe would have been replaced by Williamson if we were still losing that midfield battle.

Oh, and Dunn would have been on a PAYP contract and may well have been 'fit'. DJ would also not have taken up a space on the bench and I would have had Forrester back from his loan.

[thenodrog]

If you weren't there you can hardly make a valid comment. Truth is I thought we'd bought a pup when I saw 10 mins of him against Millwall but yesterday I saw indications that he has some quality. He's massive and he's very fast and strong. At the moment I'd describe him as a loose cannon but I did see much to work with. Somebody likened him to Bothroyd and that might be very accurate, if he is then whilst Bothroyd's problem was between his ears re: playing in the prem he could certainly do the business in this Div.

[Stuart]

Your constant criticism of Lowe is tiring too. You've made your point (many times) so leave it be.

Your constant sniping at me is also getting tiring. How about you do us both a favour and put me on ignore.

[thenodrog]

Dropping Rhodes definitely isn't the solution.

Maybe not, but replacing him when he is being bossed by his centre half is. Yesterday after HT we couldn't getb the ball out of our own half and a centre forward who cannot hold up clearences and alleviate pressure on the rest of the team and give them time to re-organiose is as much use as a chocolate teapot.

[Stuart]

If you weren't there you can hardly make a valid comment.

?

[DE.]

Maybe not, but replacing him when he is being bossed by his centre half is. Yesterday after HT we couldn't getb the ball out of our own half and a centre forward who cannot hold up clearences and alleviate pressure on the rest of the team and give them time to re-organiose is as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Taking off the bloke who scores 50% of our goals is a bad solution, imo. We should be looking at changing other areas of the team to try and supply Rhodes better, rather than remove him.

[LDRover]

I don't get this being overrun in midfield - at the time of 'the' change we were having our best spell of the game - in fact it was just after Gestede's one on one.

Also surely this would be proven in possession stats - which showed we had more of the ball??

[thenodrog]

He needs wrapping in cotton wool. its annoying, but at this stage of his career it is what it is.

I suspect he will start vs brum and do his customary 60mins

I'd appreciate a bit of honesty. 'hamstring strain' is just feeding us a load of old bolllox! R&R is what he clearly needs so why not just say so? Tugay's record makes him look daft soft

[Majiball]

I see nothing wrong with subbing JR when he's not playing well. It's no easy job being marked by two player, JR will have to work hard to get anything out of them and they can take turns. If anything having another option means we could take advantage of those tiring legs.

Too many of our players are playing week in week out they will start to fatigue as the season drags on, so I hope we're ready for it.

[JBiz]

5 mins before the substitution - my cousin "Williamson for Gestede, two up top aint working"

I thought he was batty personally, but it did nullify Sheff Wednesday. IMO Sheff Wednesday would have eventually broken us down, and Williamson effectively nullified this by picking up all the second balls from the oppositions long balls. Perhaps Rochina could have come on earlier, but it was not his game yesterday, Wednesday defended extremely well. This was highlighted in the first half when we had the ball for long periods but could not find a way through. The best two chances came from a counter attack, and a quick free-kick.

Can be frustrating, but the defending is massively improved on anything we have seen for sometime. Hanley is a beast, Dann looks top class when he doesn't have to think about it (shame about when he has time ) and we are working hard for each other in our own half. Lowe epitomised this again, and I'm not surprised he's stuck with Marshall because he works his arse off also.

Alas, quality in the final third let us down again. We look a complete different side without Dunn, but I think Gestede showed yesterday that he gives us a different option. He looks strong, fast and good in the air. We have to improve our play in the final third ultimately - if Marshall, Taylor, King etc can improve final ball then we will start scoring bags of goals.

The only thing that stands in the way of gradual improvement would be a change in management, or the tomfoolery of Desai/SS.

[Stuart]

I see nothing wrong with subbing JR when he's not playing well.

There's the rub though, Maj.

How do we determine that he isn't playing well? If it's when he is missing chances then I agree. If he isn't getting those chances the I'd say his team mates aren't playing well. Others would say he should then create his own chances - as well as chances for those non-existent players ahead of him when he drops deeper.

When we start playing to Rhodes weaknesses rather than his strengths, we end up where either the whole team seems to drop deeper, or we ping the ball long to Rhodes and watch him beaten in the air, or win the ball and be pushed wide waiting for support that isn't forthcoming.

If we aren't going to play to his strengths then let's get him sold in January while his stock is still high.

In response to your other point, if two players are marking Rhodes, why aren't we taking advantage of the extra man?

[thenodrog]

Doesn't matter, he's a country mile better than anything else we have in the squad, even 60 minutes every 2/3 games puts most in the squad to shame.

Drive, desire and passion, we should all be thankful we've still got him to call on.

I'm going to leave it there as I know a lot of you really like Dunn, but I don't see those attributes in Dunn.

Me neither. Didn't help endear me to him when I was at Ewood early last season on a spot of corporate and saw him (after being declared injured) walking normally in front of the JW stand then putting on a fake limp when he saw some supporters approaching.

Such a shame cos he is the only one of our squad with real Premier league quality and the quality to make or attacking work come to fruition.

If we don't make the play offs this season then forget laying blame on Bowyer / Lowe / Rhodes etc cos it will be largely down to Dunn missing so many matches.

[jim mk2]

Your constant sniping at me is also getting tiring. How about you do us both a favour and put me on ignore.

Seeing as you're all over this messageboard like a rash that would be very difficult.

Why is it acceptable for you to slap down anyone who criticises your poster boy Rhodes while you post all sorts of nonsense about Lowe at any opportunity ?

[thenodrog]

Do you think Bowyer did his utmost to win yesterday's game?

Was replacing a striker with a second def midfield with a third of the game left a sign that Bowyer was chasing three points or settling for one?

So now you've made that daft statement pleas explain Rochina's appearence.

[roversfan99]

5 mins before the substitution - my cousin "Williamson for Gestede, two up top aint working"

I thought he was batty personally, but it did nullify Sheff Wednesday. IMO Sheff Wednesday would have eventually broken us down, and Williamson effectively nullified this by picking up all the second balls from the oppositions long balls. Perhaps Rochina could have come on earlier, but it was not his game yesterday, Wednesday defended extremely well. This was highlighted in the first half when we had the ball for long periods but could not find a way through. The best two chances came from a counter attack, and a quick free-kick.

Can be frustrating, but the defending is massively improved on anything we have seen for sometime. Hanley is a beast, Dann looks top class when he doesn't have to think about it (shame about when he has time ) and we are working hard for each other in our own half. Lowe epitomised this again, and I'm not surprised he's stuck with Marshall because he works his arse off also.

Alas, quality in the final third let us down again. We look a complete different side without Dunn, but I think Gestede showed yesterday that he gives us a different option. He looks strong, fast and good in the air. We have to improve our play in the final third ultimately - if Marshall, Taylor, King etc can improve final ball then we will start scoring bags of goals.

The only thing that stands in the way of gradual improvement would be a change in management, or the tomfoolery of Desai/SS.

I think that at no point did Wednesday look like scoring. All the change did was limit us going forward. To be honest, if Williamson was going to come on it should have been for Lowe. To say Lowe gets so much praise, he is very poor positionally, so many teams do I see opponents getting the ball in the spaces between our midfield and defence, and he doesn't win enough challenges or second balls. Rochina would have given them something different to think about. Williamson for Lowe and Rochina for Gestede.

[thenodrog]

How many games on the bounce did he play when his contract was expiring last season?

He does have form. He's done it for bloody years.

We'll agree to disagree Maj, Dunns always had his critics and in some cases rightly so. But to suggest he's not pulling out all the stops currently is complete bunkum and ill informed.

http://www.brfcs.com/mb/index.php/topic/29584-clearout-begins-at-rovers/page-63#entry1441354

[den]

There's the rub though, Maj.

How do we determine that he isn't playing well? If it's when he is missing chances then I agree. If he isn't getting those chances the I'd say his team mates aren't playing well

"How do we determine when he isn't playing well"?

That explains a lot Stuart.

[yoda]

"How do we determine when he isn't playing well"?

That explains a lot Stuart.

[thenodrog]

.

?

Apologies... that post was aimed at Maj not in reponse to one of yours. Quote facility lets me down since somebody's been fiddling around with the controls.