[Archived] Brum, Brum, 29/12/13, the debate goes on!

[arbitro]

The draw and managers negativity against Wednesday has come back and bit us on the bum big time today. And the common denominator in the dropped points is the managers negativity. For their first goal we clear the ball from the corner only for their player to be able to take the ball down and pick his pass out to the corner taker. Why? Because all our bloody players are in or just outside the penalty area and nobody is near enough to press the ball. Bloody negative from Bowyer, just like his persistence with two central defensive midfielders at home. The second half performance and team set up was just what we should have been doing in the first half against a Birmingham side who despite showing little attacking intent were three up. These two games were pivotal in our season and in my opinion the fans have been let down badly.

I have learnt a lot about Bowyer in the last two games. He picked up a poisoned chalice but he really hasn't done himself any favours in the last two games.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

I'm sick of see Jason ' never does anything' Lowe. He is rubbish. Never tackles can't pass and never makes himself an option

Absolute rubbish - no matter what your opinion of Lowe he never hides, always makes himself an option for a pass.

[LDRover]

Absolute rubbish - no matter what your opinion of Lowe he never hides, always makes himself an option for a pass.

Totally agree DMTP one can never fault his attitude or application.

Problem is that he's crap. I even saw him lose a 70-30 challenge in his favour today.

At least we get to see how the team fares without him at Leeds.

[Majiball]

Why, its been obvious for a while we are not up to it

Regardless of what I post I always have hope. I spent the whole time trying to get a signal on my phone desperatly hoping to see us pull one back. I gave up at 0-3.

Me too.

How the hell can you concede 3 first half goals at home against a bottom 5 team when you have a back 4 and 2 defensive midfielders?

As I've said for long enough, there are no men or leaders in the team, that want to stand up and be counted.

I'd have criticised Bowyer on Boxing Day but not today. He's been badly let down in the first 45 mins IMO by those who he entrusted defensively.

You can't legislate for that defensive abomination.

Our leader is described below.

After the third goal as Eastwood was picking himself up Dann ran over screaming in his face and tried to push him to the ground

Nice one captain

What do you expect from a man who had his agent trying everything he could to get him out of here in summer.

I'd like to answer your physio Q from before. It will probably be a combo of the two, the physio will know it's stiff but the player will say whether he feels he can train/play on it. The physio will always air on the side of caution as if he does breakdown he's getting the blame. Niggles as they appear to be termed in the game or I can't be arsed syndrome as I term it as it's always the same players. I don't doubt he has issues but a slight strain to 3-4 weeks out just suggests he doesn't do what is needed.

[Leonard Venkhater]

£££££££££££££££££££££££££££

No brainer really

[dubdubdub]

For me that was Eastwood's ball to come and collect. Henley and Dann were screening the attacker and Eastwood just stood there forcing a risky back pass. He had ample time to get to the ball.

We had the chances to win today despite them scoring three. Disappointing but valiant in the second half at the very least.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

A simple, undefined reply when an ignorant comment or action is made.

Games are won and lost in midfield. I thought the point of having an extra def midfielder was to screen the back-four? Hasn't quite panned out, has it?

A quick question then - where you at the match today ? Today's match was not lost in midfield - it was lost by some inept defending. In the first half - attacking wise - we played some excellent football with Williamson getting frequently forward. Though my preference would be to play Cairney more central - it had no baring on us losing the match.

[FGS5635]

Just back from the game. 1st things 1st Dann is a disgrace and should be stripped of the captaincy. WTF he is hoping to achieve with eastwood there is mind blowing. Absolute keaning prat. Its debatable if the goal was even eastwoods fault, what hanley is doing there god only knows.

Now the game. I though we where the better team for pretty much 90mins yet lost...very frustrating. We started so well and should have taken the lead, but 3 really bad goals to concede. 1st goal is careless defending, but there is no excuse for the next two. Shocking goalkeeping and defending. After that the reaction 2nd half was really good. The effort accross the board in that second half has to now be the benchmark they all need to look at. The effort and desire was great and shows what these players can be. Rhodes really needs to bottle whatever he had in that 2nd half becasue he was everything we need him to be. Really fired up, an absolute pest to the brum centre halfs, fighting for everything. This is waht frustrates me with rhodes, he has it in him to be very good in that mood. Tough to fault anyone in that second half, all played very well. Marshall was outstanding also, cairney is obviously far better central. Lowe had a great game to 2nd half.

All in all a really frustrating game, yet so many positives, but ultimatley 0 points and really thats all that matters. Grrrr its tough being a rovers fan

[Leonard Venkhater]

After the third goal as Eastwood was picking himself up Dann ran over screaming in his face and tried to push him to the ground

Nice one captain

I missed that. Probably too busy cursing!

If this is correct, that is very serious IMO.

I remember being disgusted by Peter Reid -Man City player manager- giving a real going over to a teenage Flitcroft after a goal was conceded.

Experienced player with power, undermining junior one in public at worst possible moment. And they say football is all about confidence.

[Mike E]

I'm a believer of taking the positives, but even I will say today was a shocking 1st half.

However I've calmed down and taken stock of what we have. All I eill say is Evans' return and keeping Cairney (sell Rochina to get it done, please) are vital to our chances. When Evans comes back, we have a solid platform to build on:

Eastwood;

Henley, Dann, Hanley, Spurr;

Evans, Cairney;

Marshall, Judge, Taylor (rotating);

Rhodes.

Bench: Robbo/Kean, Gestede, King, Dunn, Kilgallon, Kane etc.

King and Dunn could equally have starting berths imo, but going off today, that's who I'd go with. Judge is a non-injured Dunn. He's a smashing player but he gets overlooked due to height. His technique and direct play from the wing was magnificent today, as was Marshall's much improved performance.

That's a POTENTIAL play-off team imo. Bowyer just needs to realise it and not fear teams. This league is even. Look at Burnley! Average team but a fearless attitude from a fearless manager!

I'm annoyed that we didn't take at least 4 pts from these 2 home games and expect a loss at Leeds in all honesty. But there's another 4 months to go and we are more than capable of crashing the playoff party. In fact, the cup draw is a win-win imo. Either we get through and have a confidence boom or we are free when other teams have cup commitments. I think we'll fall short if the playoffs tbh, but I'll hope with all my being and cross every digit.

[John]

Things have generally calmed down but once a rat always a rat (captain marvel Dann).

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Had little baring on the match - but was anyone else surprised by how many fouls Birmingham players got away with - combined by some blatant time wasting.

[cesus]

What a crazy game! Please can we now put to bed that Rochina is going to save us as today showed what we all deep down knew, his decision making is terrible, his ability to turn a man at his back is phenomenal the problem is he can't decide whether to pass or take him on again. Ability is all there for him but bringing team mates in is certainly not.

You can't give away 3 goals in the first half and expect anything. The first goal is awful, during the build up there were 3 unmarked Birmingham players going for the same ball in the penalty area and the build up which led to the corner was in slow motion. Second goal is a hell of a strike, I was that shocked he hit it from so far out I couldn't grasp what happened so I won't try to blame anybody. Third goal is truly the worst by far, I'm in the Eastwood should have come to collect the ball in the first place camp but he did get a ropey back pass and mirrored it with an even worse kick out, straight to their man and it was in the bottom corner a second later. Dann did push him to the ground after the goal which I was shocked by. I've been critical of Eastwood for not coming for long balls for a few weeks now Spurr had a real pop at him the last game for doing the same and making him lose possession.

Second half much better but the team was badly, badly let down by the lads at the back. I though Marshall was excellent today, Gestede linked up well when he came on, Willamson's lack of pace really puts us in trouble at times, Rhodes finished two well, but I would have expected him to hit the target when through in the first half. More will come to me later no doubt!

[West Yorks Rover]

I'm a believer of taking the positives, but even I will say today was a shocking 1st half.

However I've calmed down and taken stock of what we have. All I eill say is Evans' return and keeping Cairney (sell Rochina to get it done, please) are vital to our chances. When Evans comes back, we have a solid platform to build on:

Eastwood;

Henley, Dann, Hanley, Spurr;

Evans, Cairney;

Marshall, Judge, Taylor (rotating);

Rhodes.

Bench: Robbo/Kean, Gestede, King, Dunn, Kilgallon, Kane etc.

King and Dunn could equally have starting berths imo, but going off today, that's who I'd go with. Judge is a non-injured Dunn. He's a smashing player but he gets overlooked due to height. His technique and direct play from the wing was magnificent today, as was Marshall's much improved performance.

That's a POTENTIAL play-off team imo. Bowyer just needs to realise it and not fear teams. This league is even. Look at Burnley! Average team but a fearless attitude from a fearless manager!

I'm annoyed that we didn't take at least 4 pts from these 2 home games and expect a loss at Leeds in all honesty. But there's another 4 months to go and we are more than capable of crashing the playoff party. In fact, the cup draw is a win-win imo. Either we get through and have a confidence boom or we are free when other teams have cup commitments. I think we'll fall short if the playoffs tbh, but I'll hope with all my being and cross every digit.

That looks a decent team Mike, but can you really see GB dropping Lowe ?

[Majiball]

Same Dann who dodged out of the way of Novak's shot for the second.

why do you think I term our CB's can't head (Hanley) and won't head (Dann), he always tucks up when he jumps for the ball as if he thinks it's going to hurt him.

[Proudtobeblue&white]

Had little baring on the match - but was anyone else surprised by how many fouls Birmingham players got away with - combined by some blatant time wasting.

Refs in this league let so much go. I thought today's Ref played some excellent play-ons, but let some bad fouls go unpunished. Their players escaped lightly, and yes, there should have been about 10 mins stoppage time!

[FGS5635]

Refs in this league let so much go. I thought today's Ref played some excellent play-ons, but let some bad fouls go unpunished. Their players escaped lightly, and yes, there should have been about 10 mins stoppage time!

The 4mins added on was a joke with all the time wasting plus the two injury stoppages. Zigic is a keaning kean. Totally uselss and strolling around like he's some sort of rocky balboa...prat

[West Yorks Rover]

I see one of our 'old boys' Matt Derbyshire softened Leeds up for us, winner for Forest.

Tough game though,ironically Ruben played a blinder there last season in the 3-3 draw.

[thenodrog]

Gestede's goal tally across his career suggests he's rarely in the right place. Perhaps he can learn from Jordan, who's an absolute master at it despite his young age.

He wont be in the right place if Rhodes is already there though will he?

What did Dann do during the first half?

Scott Dann demonstrated again that whilst he can defend OK he is no Beckenbaur. I doubt he can even pass wind never mind a football.

[AlvinStraight]

Half season gone now. 4 Points of playoff... would you thougt that Before this season?

I suppose that puts things into perspective, most where expecting mid-table at best this season(yes I am aware there's still half a season to go ).

Still no excuse for how badly the team was set up in the 1st half(Bowyer should know better by now) or how poorly the 'Darwen End Golden Boy' Rochina played.

[roversfan99]

Eastwood again making a shocking mistake, he definitely isn't the answer and I would reluctantly bring back Kean until we can rush back Robinson.

I don't think what Dann did (well apparently, I didn't see it) was the appropriate reaction but at least he is passionate.

Rochina was poor and has further supported the theory that Dunn is in a different league.

Bowyer made a huge mistake again, and worryingly doesn't learn from playing 2 defensive midfielders, because Cairney was poor out wide as you would expect, and whenever Williamson or Lowe got the ball, they don't know what to do.

[rovers11]

I'm a believer of taking the positives, but even I will say today was a shocking 1st half.

However I've calmed down and taken stock of what we have. All I eill say is Evans' return and keeping Cairney (sell Rochina to get it done, please) are vital to our chances. When Evans comes back, we have a solid platform to build on:

Eastwood;

Henley, Dann, Hanley, Spurr;

Evans, Cairney;

Marshall, Judge, Taylor (rotating);

Rhodes.

Bench: Robbo/Kean, Gestede, King, Dunn, Kilgallon, Kane etc.

King and Dunn could equally have starting berths imo, but going off today, that's who I'd go with. Judge is a non-injured Dunn. He's a smashing player but he gets overlooked due to height. His technique and direct play from the wing was magnificent today, as was Marshall's much improved performance.

That's a POTENTIAL play-off team imo. Bowyer just needs to realise it and not fear teams. This league is even. Look at Burnley! Average team but a fearless attitude from a fearless manager!

I'm annoyed that we didn't take at least 4 pts from these 2 home games and expect a loss at Leeds in all honesty. But there's another 4 months to go and we are more than capable of crashing the playoff party. In fact, the cup draw is a win-win imo. Either we get through and have a confidence boom or we are free when other teams have cup commitments. I think we'll fall short if the playoffs tbh, but I'll hope with all my being and cross every digit.

I've said it a few times that we're not far off being a very good team in this division. If cairney signs permanently, which I expect him to do, then we have midfield choices of: Marshall, King, Taylor, Judge, Evans, Cairney, Lowe, Williamson. They are strong midfield options and despite our financial difficulties I'd expect them all to be here next season. I've not included Etuhu, Marrow and Olsson because they aren't very good and prob won't be here next season.

Dann, Hanley and Rhodes will almost certainly go in the summer but I'd expect most of our other first team players to remain. I genuinely think we can be strong promotion contenders next season if GB continues to build, players cut out individual errors and we make a few astute signings.

[AlvinStraight]

I'm a believer of taking the positives, but even I will say today was a shocking 1st half.

However I've calmed down and taken stock of what we have. All I eill say is Evans' return and keeping Cairney (sell Rochina to get it done, please) are vital to our chances. When Evans comes back, we have a solid platform to build on:

Eastwood;

Henley, Dann, Hanley, Spurr;

Evans, Cairney;

Marshall, Judge, Taylor (rotating);

Rhodes.

Bench: Robbo/Kean, Gestede, King, Dunn, Kilgallon, Kane etc.

King and Dunn could equally have starting berths imo, but going off today, that's who I'd go with. Judge is a non-injured Dunn. He's a smashing player but he gets overlooked due to height. His technique and direct play from the wing was magnificent today, as was Marshall's much improved performance.

That's a POTENTIAL play-off team imo. Bowyer just needs to realise it and not fear teams. This league is even. Look at Burnley! Average team but a fearless attitude from a fearless manager!

I'm annoyed that we didn't take at least 4 pts from these 2 home games and expect a loss at Leeds in all honesty. But there's another 4 months to go and we are more than capable of crashing the playoff party. In fact, the cup draw is a win-win imo. Either we get through and have a confidence boom or we are free when other teams have cup commitments. I think we'll fall short if the playoffs tbh, but I'll hope with all my being and cross every digit.

I agree with your potential line up, BUT honestly do you really think Bowyer will ever drop lowe, even for a clearly better player like Evans, I don't,

Personally I can see Cairney leaving in Jan and Evans taking his place.

[Doug]

Funny how we all have such extremely different views as I thought overall we played well. Would guess we had the lions share of possession.They scored a one in a million from a place where one of our DM's should have been. We commited suicide for one and the first was poor defending.

Marshall (who I used to think was poor) has gained in confidence and looks excellent. We must sign Cairney as he is a very capable player. Henley looks good. I thought Rochina was better than most on here are posting taking into acount how much time he has had on the pitch recently.

Eastwood - good game apart from the hurried clearance that led to a goal.

Henley - good

Hanley - good

Dann - very poor distribution and needs a dressing down for his treatment of Eastwood after their 2nd - poor captaincy.

Spurr - steady

Marshall - MOM for me

Cairney - good

Williamson - Poor - come on Evans get fit!!

Lowe - steady

Rochina - Rochina

Rhodes - took goals well and much, much better all round game

Gestede - 1st viewing and he seems like he should have more impact on the game.

Judge - Why on earth was he brought on?? Strange sub as he offers very little.

Taylor - Should have come on instead of Judge.

[glen9mullan]

Seriously left scratching my head after that match .

At half time I'd usually be fuming being 3-0 down , but not today .

First half we dominated the match , moved the ball well and was full of movement , yet conceded 3 goals out of nothing.

Not sure what the stats where first half , but possession wise it must of been really high in Rovers favour .

Second half was pretty much the same , Rovers dominant.

Birmingham did a serious Dick Turpin job on us , thanks to some insane defending and awful goalkeeping.

Positives , Marshall was outstanding second half and is looking much fitter, he is showing signs of getting his game back together .

Negatives - Williamson should be no-where near the first team and hopefully Bowyer learns lessons from that today .

1 point from 6 from these two home games is not good enough , Bowyers team selection and substitutions in both games is highly questionable.

After these two games , we will probably now beat Leeds , which shows where we are , heavily inconsistent