[Archived] Brum, Brum, 29/12/13, the debate goes on!

[K-Hod]

Could robbo be any worse? He needs games to get back fit / upto speed, so give him games I say

If fit, Robbo would be in the team for me obviously, but it's a big IF!

[Tom]

So, replace Eastwood with calamity Jake??

No no no no no no no we can't keep dropping keepers after a mistake, Kean was in the double figures for bad mistakes and is all round worse than Eastwood

I know you weren't advocating it by the way

[Gav]

This game was all about Bowyers soft centres in the form of the two invisible central midfielders Lowe and Williamson ,Scott Dann and the keeper.

If GB has anything about him he'd be dropping Eastwood for the next game, looking to cash in on Dann this jan and bring in a harder more experienced central defender to partner Grant and drop the two central midfielders JL & LW and then maybe Rovers can progress in this league thats if they really want to.

The Dann debate is getting stupid now, he's been our most consistent performer over the past 18 months and you want to sell him? Until yesterday we had a fantastic defensive record at home, the defence isn't the issue.

[FGS5635]

If fit, Robbo would be in the team for me obviously, but it's a big IF!

Yh I suppose. Not sure how fit you need to be though to play GK. He's been back training quite a while now. May not be the ideal time, but like I said, not sure he can do worse than the other two so why not

[JAL]

The Dann debate is getting stupid now, he's been our most consistent performer over the past 18 months and you want to sell him? Until yesterday we had a fantastic defensive record at home, the defence isn't the issue.

Was pointing out just what a soft centre Rovers currently have and until its resolved cant see any progress being made, can you.

[No Nay Never]

Was pointing out just what a soft centre Rovers currently have and until its resolved cant see any progress being made, can you.

Surely selling one of our most consistent performers since relegation isn't resolving this though, despite yesterday I think we would have to go along way and spend a lot of money to find a better cb partnership at this level

[Rover_Shaun]

You are joking? Tell me you are!

[Gav]

Was pointing out just what a soft centre Rovers currently have and until its resolved cant see any progress being made, can you.

Put a fit Robinson into the mix and that defense is good enough to win promotion for me, sadly the rest of the side isn't, I agree with that.

Its a general comment not just aimed at you JAL, plenty of people are questioning Dann which is baffling to me.

You are joking? Tell me you are!

Are you being a ***** for the sake of it? or do you have something of substance to say on the subject?

[No Nay Never]

You are joking? Tell me you are!

If you are referring to me, then no i'm not joking.

[JAL]

I missed whatever Dann did to the goalie but many have mentioned it and it would seem its not left a good impression of the Rovers captain on the more senior supporters. For me I dont rate him in and out of possession, be strong one of the two, but for me, hes weak in both. Grants more aggressive and harder to play against and can run with the ball like he showed at Millwall away last season. Rovers should give Grant a Henning Berg/ Kevin Moran type of partner, instead of Scott Dann.

[Gav]

I missed whatever Dann did to the goalie but many have mentioned and its not left a good impression of the Rovers captain on the more senior supporters. For me I dont rate him in and out of possession, be strong one of the two, but for me, hes weak in both. Grants more aggressive and harder to play against and can run with the ball like he showed at Millwall away last season. Give Grant a Henning Berg Kevin Moran type of partner instead of Scott Dann.

The keeper spat is irrelevant, just a stick to beat Dann with and happens plenty of times throughout the course of a season.

A Berg or Moran type would cost 10m+ in today's market, thankfully we've got a solid defensive unit in place, so don't fix what's not broke in my opinion. The midfield is the place where we need to be looking, not the defence.

[Mike E]

Was pointing out just what a soft centre Rovers currently have and until its resolved cant see any progress being made, can you.

6 clean sheets in 9 games isn't progress? Did you not see the last 3 years? I honestly believe that the playoff places are easily breachable if we can get Evans and Cairney in the centre and change little else.

[Amo]

6 clean sheets in 9 games isn't progress? Did you not see the last 3 years? I honestly believe that the playoff places are easily breachable if we can get Evans and Cairney in the centre and change little else.

I've stuck up for "Lowey" in the past but Evans is a far more complete player than him or Williamson could hope to be. Will the manager realize this before it's too late?

[yoda's brother]

I've stuck up for "Lowey" in the past but Evans is a far more complete player than him or Williamson could hope to be. Will the manager realize this before it's too late?

think he already knows, but you cant play someone who is still injured.

[RevidgeBlue]

Completely agree Mike, it was an incredibly weird game yesterday, we must have dominated first half possession yesterday and moved the ball about extremely well but a combination of being too tippy tappy around the opponent's penalty area allied to a once in a lifetime strike and calamitous defending on a couple of occasions somehow saw us 3-0 down.

Second half at 3-0 down obviously required more of a kitchen sink approach and by taking a more positive approach without two defensive midfielders we "won" the second half 2-0 and could or maybe should have had two or three more which surely finally shows that two defensive midfielders is completely unnecessary and that particularly at home we should be attempting to batter teams for 90 minutes.

Rochina who I'm a big fan of showed some exquisite touches yesterday and helped keep us flowing first half but overall when it came to the final third was fairly poor. Unfortunately whenever he gets an appearance he seems to have to put in a MOTM appearance from the bench for 10 mins or prove himself on his first start for months knowing if he doesn't have a stormer he'll be dropped again for the next game and he couldn't produce yesterday. Probably needs a run of five or six games to build some consistency and sadly almost certainly won't get it.

The main problem with the side in Evans' absence is the central midfield. Both our so called defensive midfielders are sadly lacking at the moment, Williamson seems to have lost what little pace he had and words simply can't describe how bad Lowe is, enough is enough with this lad, if you watch him closely for five or ten minutes all he does is either mark space or chase aimlessly around trying in vain to get somewhere near the ball whilst play goes on around him, but he rarely gets close enough to either the ball or the opposition to have any positive or destructive effect. It's like watching a group of playground bullies nick something off a smaller kid then stand in a circle throwing it to each other whilst the little kid tries in vain to grab it back.

Evans' return is a must, and he needs to be paired alongside Cairney in central midfield if we're to make the further improvement necessary to make the play off spots imo.

[Amo]

think he already knows, but you cant play someone who is still injured.

You think Bowyer will drop Lowe for Evans?

[Bucksrover]

I agree that our best central midfield 2 will be Cairney and Evans - if Evans gets fit and we keep Cairney. As others have said Lowe can't tackle that well, and he only really serves as a destroyer of opposition attacks so poor tackling is a problem - Evans is a more complete midfielder - with a bit of bite to feed Cairney's distribution. Williamson shouldn't be near the team.

On yesterday I was deflated to see us start with Williamson and Lowe again. Everybody saw how poor it made us against Wednesday, except Bowyer. When he took Williamson off for the second half we were a different team. But it has cost us another game.

Rochina going off also helped - he has great touches but for me he epitomised style over substance - he would excel in a continental league with less physical demands and more time for him to show-boat.

As others have picked up on the free-kick taking discussions were a joke. In the first half we won one in a very similar position to one Cairney scored earlier this season, but Rochina refused to let him to take it - Rochina fluffed it. Late on in the game Judge refused to let Marshall take one, and choked in his usual style. Could the fact that Rochina and Judge are effectively fringe players and the January window is looming have made them put themselves before the needs of the team!? I hope not.

Brum were poor - and I am not sure our promotion campaign can take these dropped points while Bowyer and co learn. If Bowyer and our team is kept together and learns from games like yesterday then I think they can do good things. Gestede was good yesterday and will get better - I think Rhodes will enjoy playing with someone who gives a bit back to the defenders who clatter him for 90 minutes.

I was proud to be part of the crowd for that second half - we really backed the team. At the end one muppet near me boo'd and shouted that the team were a disgrace - but there is always one.

[Tom]

Whilst I think Lowe could have done better for the first goal it's only fair to point out he played a lovely through ball to Rhodes at 3-2 down

I remember being shocked as I've not seen him make killer passes before

Maybe he should be a bit more ambitious more often, then again Dann played a great ball for the second goal and his distribution is awful 99% of the time

[RevidgeBlue]

I'm not convinced by Gestede, doesn't look like he'll be troubling the scorers too often to use cricket parlance and when he drops deep to try and collect the ball, (with varying degrees of success) he leaves Rhodes as isolated as if he were playing on his own up front.

It then needs someone in midfield with Tugay like passing abilities to try and pick Rhodes out and we don't have a player like that currently. Gested needs to learn to play closer to and in partnership with Rhodes if he were to be a real asset and I'd say another striker who actually knows where the net is is more important than a back to goal target man per se.

[Boz]

Very much agree simon that our issues flow from central midfield. This is not decrying Lowe or Williamson. Like you simon we've been spoilt with ball playing midfielders who would actively seek out and demand the ball, Kendall, Barker, Sherwood and especially Tugay. But all these functioned alongside work horses who could tackle and get around the park, carried the water, e.g. Super Atko, Savage.

My midfielder would go and get the ball off Dann, Lowe or Williamson, who are not blessed with being able to make an incisive pass and drive/control the game.

The only such player we seem to have like this is Cairney, who is wasted out wide, without the athleticism of say Lowe.

Play Lowe right but more narrow, he can get up and down, providing better coverage to the full back Henley who can overlap.

A work horse alongside Cairney in the middle; King or Marshall on the left; JR up top with Dunn or Rochina playing off the front man.

But let's stop with Lowe and Williamson being our midfield, especially at home.

Oh yes and cut out carelessness at the back.

[Tom]

He won several flick ons for Rhodes and apparently in the Wednesday game he was playing in the hole so blame the manager for that one

[thenodrog]

If GB has anything about him he'd be dropping Eastwood for the next game,

Have you taken leave of your senses? Eastwood made one rick on Saturday and you'd have us drop him in favour of Jake Kean who of late has made one a week!

[Stuart]

Very much agree simon that our issues flow from central midfield. This is not decrying Lowe or Williamson. Like you simon we've been spoilt with ball playing midfielders who would actively seek out and demand the ball, Kendall, Barker, Sherwood and especially Tugay. But all these functioned alongside work horses who could tackle and get around the park, carried the water, e.g. Super Atko, Savage.

My midfielder would go and get the ball off Dann, Lowe or Williamson, who are not blessed with being able to make an incisive pass and drive/control the game.

The only such player we seem to have like this is Cairney, who is wasted out wide, without the athleticism of say Lowe.

Play Lowe right but more narrow, he can get up and down, providing better coverage to the full back Henley who can overlap.

A work horse alongside Cairney in the middle; King or Marshall on the left; JR up top with Dunn or Rochina playing off the front man.

But let's stop with Lowe and Williamson being our midfield, especially at home.

Oh yes and cut out carelessness at the back.

Agreed Boz. A workhorse alongside Cairney could work but two workhorses certainly won't. I wonder though if Cairney and Evans would be a better CM partnership with Evan in the def-mid role. Daft as it sounds I wonder how Lowe might fare in the hole behind Rhodes. He is good at linking defence and midfield, how about a link between midfield and attack? Ball retention. Is pretty good.

----------------- Eastwood

-- Henley - Dann - Hanley - Spurr

------------------ Evans

-- Rochina ---- Cairney ------ King

-------------- Lowe

--------------------Rhodes

Any takers? Or crazy talk?

[JAL]

6 clean sheets in 9 games isn't progress? Did you not see the last 3 years? I honestly believe that the playoff places are easily breachable if we can get Evans and Cairney in the centre and change little else.

Out of the last six games we've conceded eight goals whilst only scoring seven which leaves the team one goal down over the last six games.

So far this season we've not scored in eight of the twenty three games and we have only ONE main goalscorer in the side.

It needs to be resolved and that is only achievable through new players coming in.

[Al]

After a lay off Rochina gets one game and is blamed because we lost. I don't understand our supporters. If we are to get out of this league it is players with flair like him and the perpetually injured Dunn who will get us there. Get off their backs and get behind them if we are to stand a chance because we won't get their like again.