[Archived] Transfer embargo- Can anyone clarify...

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

If, as is likely, we don't go up and fall foul of the FFP rules I understand there would be a transfer embargo on incoming players.

In which case, most people would expect Dann, Hanley and Rhodes to be sold in summer. Does that not mean that this January would be our only opportunity to replace them? Otherwise we will be expecting songo and Kilgallon as our CB partnership and potentially just Goodwillie up front (Best will be paid off, Ruben will be off, Campbell will be at her majesty's pleasure (alledgedly)).

..Or is it not like that?

[glen9mullan]

If, as is likely, we don't go up and fall foul of the FFP rules I understand there would be a transfer embargo on incoming players.

In which case, most people would expect Dann, Hanley and Rhodes to be sold in summer. Does that not mean that this January would be our only opportunity to replace them? Otherwise we will be expecting songo and Kilgallon as our CB partnership and potentially just Goodwillie up front (Best will be paid off, Ruben will be off, Campbell will be at her majesty's pleasure (alledgedly)).

..Or is it not like that?

Derek Shaw stated in a recent meeting , that you are allowed to spend a percentage of any sales even under an embargo .

E. G 50k off wage bill , you can use a percentage of that to being players in

[Stuart]

But it's not necessarily about getting bodies in, although I know where you are coming from. My bigger concern is what it will take to come out of the transfer embargo. What does Rovers' FFP-ready squad look like?

[rovers11]

Derek Shaw stated in a recent meeting , that you are allowed to spend a percentage of any sales even under an embargo .

E. G 50k off wage bill , you can use a percentage of that to being players in

Really?! That's hardly an embargo then.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Thanks for that Glen. Does that mean we can bring in free transfers (on a lower wage) or if we get £1 mil for a player we can buy someone for £300k?

Surely if Venkys have any ambition left they have to back Bowyer on January.

[glen9mullan]

Thanks for that Glenn. Does that mean we can bring in free transfers (on a lower wage) or if we get £1 mil for a player we can buy someone for £300k?

Surely if Venkys have any ambition left they have to back Bowyer on January.

Exactly how you have written it , we can buy or get freebies but only use a percentage of cash which we generate from sales , and cash freed up from wage bill

[perthblue02]

Exactly how you have written it , we can buy or get freebies but only use a percentage of cash which we generate from sales , and cash freed up from wage bill

Does the amount that can be spent include agent fees and cough , cough, additional expenses to get the transfer sorted?

[bobbarton]

The transfer embargo will not come into place until Jan 2015 - so we still have Jan 14 and summer 14 to buy and sell to prepare for any embargo.

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/financial-fair-play-explained.php

http://www.football-league.co.uk/page/FLExplainedDetail/0,,10794~2748246,00.html

[rovers11]

Exactly how you have written it , we can buy or get freebies but only use a percentage of cash which we generate from sales , and cash freed up from wage bill

How is that a transfer embargo? That's what pretty much every club does anyway and what we have done every transfer window apart from summer 2012 when we spent loads of money on rubbish.

A transfer embargo should be the complete banning of incoming players.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Thanks for the answers.

[Stuart]

The transfer embargo will not come into place until Jan 2015 - so we still have Jan 14 and summer 14 to buy and sell to prepare for any embargo.

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/financial-fair-play-explained.php

The flow char in that link has actually really bugged me.

"Proceeds from the Fair Play 'tax' go to charity."

Why the hell can't it be injected into grassroots football? E.g. build and pay for football pitches for use by grassroots leagues/clubs for free. It seems clear that the 'football family' really don't give a toss about the lower end of the spectrum.

[FGS5635]

The flow char in that link has actually really bugged me.

"Proceeds from the Fair Play 'tax' go to charity."

Why the hell can't it be injected into grassroots football? E.g. build and pay for football pitches for use by grassroots leagues/clubs for free. It seems clear that the 'football family' really don't give a toss about the lower end of the spectrum.

Agreed. Its clear they are worried teams wont pay and by making it 'for charity' then clubs wont risk the PR fallout

[Majiball]

The flow char in that link has actually really bugged me.

"Proceeds from the Fair Play 'tax' go to charity."

Why the hell can't it be injected into grassroots football? E.g. build and pay for football pitches for use by grassroots leagues/clubs for free. It seems clear that the 'football family' really don't give a toss about the lower end of the spectrum.

Abolish the EPPP, take it away from clubs and make regional centres & facilities. Bring it all under the FA (put dick Bate in charge) and then the fines can to help this. Grassroots football would then become an intricate part of the process as it would need to be linked into to it all for development.

[chaddyrovers]

Really doubt with FFP will come in next season..

Expect a few clubs to chalkenge it in court.

really looking foward to Kamy Article and podcast on this subject. will be very interesting

[Stuart]

Any legal challenge probably needs QPR not to go up.

[stanhillrover]

People at Rovers have said that whilst we would fall foul of the rules, so would a minimum of 5/6 other Championship clubs. It would be nice for the Football League to only have to punish 1 or 2 clubs from each division and 'make an example' of them for everyone else, like they have in the past in docking points from clubs like Portsmouth and Luton.

If however it is true that potentially a third of the Championship would all have to be sanctioned it is going to be a major headache and embarrassment for the Football League bigwigs. No doubt some of the owners at the clubs being punished would have a thing or two to say about it too. I would expect a legal challenge from at least one club if somebody tries to impose these sanctions.

One would expect QPR to be in massive difficulties if they fail to achieve promotion this season. Forest have been spending beyond their means, not to mention the likes of Middlesbrough, Reading, Ipswich, Bolton and Wigan, none of whom have much more income than us, yet have hefty wage structures in place. Even Burnley, who I keep being told are a model Championship club these days, have recently posted an £8 million loss, which if the measures were in place now would see them on the very threshold of being under an embargo themselves.

Just about every team relegated from the Premier League in future is going to make a choice between going for broke and spending to get back up or adhering to the rules and in the process limit their promotion chances.

Quite clearly we have to rid ourselves of Etuhu, Best, Campbell and Robinson, along with Nunes, Rochina, Goodwillie and Orr, by August 2014 at the latest. Even if these rules weren't coming in we would need to get shut of them anyway, for contributing nothing to the team effort this season in exchange for their considerable wages. If we get that noose off from around our neck then we're left with a squad by and large on a Championship footing, apart from Rhodes and Dann, one of which will leave in the summer anyway. Other than Rhodes, Dann, Goodwillie and Rochina I can't see any club paying any money for any of the above. If we manage to pay them off or cancel contracts then suddenly the wage bill looks a lot healthier.

[Parsonblue]

Really doubt with FFP will come in next season..

Expect a few clubs to chalkenge it in court.

really looking foward to Kamy Article and podcast on this subject. will be very interesting

It is already in use chaddy in Leagues One and Two and has been for a couple of years.

The only clubs who could challenge it are those who were not in the Football League when the League Chairmen took the decision to implement it. I'm not convinced that they would get very far if the majority of chairmen in the Football League support the plan - which they obviously do as they were the ones keen to implement it in the first place.

It has worked well enough in the lower divisions and many clubs have had to put their houses in order which is no bad thing. Of course it favours those clubs with a big fanbase that can attract large crowds and sponsors but that is nothing new. That has been the case since the minimum wage was abolished in 1960. You only have to look at the clubs who won the First Division before the mid-1960s, when the scrapping of the maximum wage started impact on the game, and the clubs who won it after. The big city clubs have dominated the game at the top level and nothing is likely to change that. Let's be honest, without Jack's money we wouldn't have enjoyed the success we have had over the past twenty years.

FFP is about the Football League maintaining it's present structure of three Leagues with a total of 72 clubs. It's aimed at preventing owners destroying clubs by landing them with the sort of debts that Venky's have built up at Ewood. I don't see what well run clubs have to fear from FFP. Success built on solid financial foundations seems a sensible approach rather than trying to build success on debt.

[Stuart]

It's those clubs who aren't prepared for it, Parson. The timescales to comply aren't long enough and need to reflect the length of contracts that PL clubs have taken on.

In order to attempt to survive in the PL, teams have to pay wages which aren't FFP-safe. Clubs who have been in the PL for a while have this problem magnified through having an infrastructure that isn't FFP-safe. This means that whilst the PL don't have a similar system, clubs at the lower end have to accept they are in a mini-competition with three other clubs to stay up on the cheap. If a Blackpool or Burnley are relegated (newbies without high costs), no problem. If a Fulham, Bolton, Wigan or Rovers are relegated then it's disaster.

To compound matters, the first two years of parachute payments, designed to protect clubs, set potentially unrealistic expectations that the can get promoted due to the advantage of PL players for those first two years. Miss out though and there really isn't long to get your house in order thereafter.

Rovers were caught out in the perfect storm: necessarily high wages-to-turnover ratio, sold to a bunch of dummies, leeched on by agents, signed a non-manager, and then relegated just as FFP is being implemented in the Championship.

A solution could be to reduce PL prize money and increase parachute payments to safeguard any PL playing contracts signed prior to the last window before relegation, for their full length. The money in the PL has given the agents and players so much more bargaining power that protecting clubs from being crippled by playing contracts has to be supported by the PL itself. By making it relevant only to contracts prior to the last (January) transfer window it prevents clubs gambling with long term contracts. Any contracts signed after that January or in the Championship then the club isn't covered.

However, for this to be practical, it really needs an FFP ethos in the PL too. But recent experience shows that, once you are relegated, the PL simply aren't interested. Once the parachute payments run out, it's simply tough luck.

[FGS5635]

The main issue is no relegated clubs ever use the parachute money as its intended. they all use it as a masssive 'ALL IN' bet to try and get straight back up

[Parsonblue]

The main issue is no relegated clubs ever use the parachute money as its intended. they all use it as a masssive 'ALL IN' bet to try and get straight back up

You've hit the nail on the head with that. Everyone who comes down gambles on throwing everything at getting back within two years. When it doesn't happen they are in a financial mess. Blackpool and Burnley are two examples of clubs who have taken a different approach and used Premiership money to help secure the long term future of their clubs.

[Stuart]

Which is why is suggested it be linked to playing contracts. Remove that temptation to use the parachute money for anything else.

[Brfcrule1]

The flow char in that link has actually really bugged me.

"Proceeds from the Fair Play 'tax' go to charity."

Why the hell can't it be injected into grassroots football? E.g. build and pay for football pitches for use by grassroots leagues/clubs for free. It seems clear that the 'football family' really don't give a toss about the lower end of the spectrum.

Stu to be fair the football family have never really given a toss about the lower leagues unfortunately once you lose your PL status it is bad enough but once the parachute money finishes it's like a club never existed. Glen one thing I have been wondering about how are Derby County going to talk their way out of the re-naming of their stadium to the I-Pro stadium surely the FA will know it is a ruse to plough more money into their club and get round an FFP loophole? Also what about QPR they are going to fall foul of FFP rules they've been spending money like it's water surely they would have a record fine if they go up or could be hit with a massive transfer embargo I can't see Harry being happy about that.

[Stuart]

Stu to be fair the football family have never really given a toss about the lower leagues unfortunately once you lose your PL status it is bad enough but once the parachute money finishes it's like a club never existed.

Completely different issue, Savio. My gripe with this has nothing to do with the PL.

[SoldierMo]

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wanderers/wanderersnews/10905726.Bolton_Wanderers__debt_reaches_record_levels/

Bolton look worse than us whats happend to uncle eddie??

[FGS5635]

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wanderers/wanderersnews/10905726.Bolton_Wanderers__debt_reaches_record_levels/

Bolton look worse than us whats happend to uncle eddie??

Yikes that almost makes us look like a well run club. Well they will fail FFP and admin is a possibility for them also you'd think. I mean how can a club Boltons size even get out of that mess. They dont really have an academy that produces players to sell on. They are also fairly close to relegation zone. That would surely be the end of them