[Archived] Benefit tv

[thenodrog]

And which government brought that little loophole in? (Clue: not the present one )

The trouble with this is everybody looks at the people claiming the 'Benefits' when in fact i don't blame them one bit.Surely the fault must lie at the hands of the previous government who made claiming benefits worth more than working.It doesn't pay to work considering the crazy amount of different benefits that can be claimed.

I could quite easily have gone on the social and claimed for when i had reactive arthritis some years ago following salmonella food poisoning.I couldn't walk without limping for around 6 years and it took a further 10 years before i got more good days than bad days.However i have a lot more pride than most of these people claiming social and couldn't bring myself to do it despite knowing i would be far better off financially.

Therein lies the problem,some people don't have the work ethic that they should have.The majority of these people will no doubt have been born to families who are long term benefit claimants and will no doubt go on to breed and have more kids that will claim benefits and so on.As harsh as these benefits cuts may seem to some people, this cycle of 'Breed and Claim' needs to stop.

In my view the sooner the better..

Blackburns bad enough but living in bacup you must get sick of work shy, low life parasites BB. You have my sympathy.

[jim mk2]

Quite right. Now what we need is a universal tax system in this country.

Even simpler if one stuffs all those saved NHS contributions into boosting up ones private package. Post op convalescing in the Ritz would be really nice.

Still doesn't explain how you would be rescued after an accident.

Don't expect the private sector to help.

[thenodrog]

I'm honestly past caring about people who cheat the benefit system. It's spit in the ocean compared to the money being spent on bailing out the banks and fighting needless wars. When it comes to fraudsters, our government has been doing it at a larger scale for centuries through political manipulation. They are the real villains here. These benefit cheats are just economic scapegoats to justify more budget cuts which screw over the poor and prop up the rich. Wake up, people.

Fine sentiments Amarillo..... would they have been the same if your bank had NOT been bailed out I wonder?

Still doesn't explain how you would be rescued after an accident.

Don't expect the private sector to help.

Stretch limo of course.

[Mike E]

Some myths and facts for you easily available online:

1. First, the myth that millions of Britons are living a life of luxury on benefits, which is nonsense. Benefits do not pay the ordinary claimant enough to afford huge luxuries and never did. Anything else is a lie concocted by politicians and media that you would be a fool to believe.

2 The myth that the taxpayer is being defrauded out of a fortune by benefit cheats who are (again) living a life of luxury at our expense. Just look at the figures. The fact is that only seven people in every thousand commit benefit fraud at a consequently small cost to the overall budget and the amount they receive simply would not support the lifestyle politicians are suggesting for them.

3. The bigger myth that people prefer to live on benefits than get a job. The current situation, engineered by this government, means there are very few jobs available around 500,000 at any one time, with 2.5 million people chasing them. Many are zero-hours jobs and part-time which do not pay more than benefits (Making Work Pay another Tory lie) so anyone taking them will be out of pocket.

Meanwhile, this government has rigged the system so that anyone who does not spend the entire working week pestering local businesses for jobs that they haven't got and won't be offering will lose their benefit for a period of up to three years!

4. Finally, there is the biggest myth of all that there isnt enough money. HMRC just released estimates for the tax year 2011-12 suggesting it failed to collect £35 billion in evaded or avoided tax during that year.

Thats seven times more than the national bill for job seekers' allowance, and more than 29 times the estimated cost of all benefit fraud.

And it gets better. This is only an estimate and the true cost of the so-called tax gap is believed to be £120 billion equal to each years national deficit, 24 times the cost of job seekers allowance or 100 times the cost of benefit fraud.

Why isnt this government going after these cheats and criminals and why aren't you up in arms about this instead of directing your anger at so-called "benefits cheats"?

Those are myths that NO-ONE believes anyway.

What most people I know are against are those who DO live a luxury life on benefits, those who DO defraud the taxpayer (benefits or not) and those who DO shy away from work in favour of benefits.

By no means do many people I know (naive as we are at my age) believe it's a widespread problem. But it's one that should be VERY easily sorted.

I think the logic is that those who defraud the taxpayer by evasion are at least earning their money (as skewed as that logic is). There's also the issue that it is often people my age who live on benefits willingly, so anytime I'm seen wearing a hoody (working pt manual labour for a solicitor, so I'm often seen leaving solicitor's offices in that hoody) I get allsorts of irrelevant abuse shouted my way.

[Sandiway Blue]

Some myths and facts for you easily available online:

1. First, the myth that millions of Britons are living a life of luxury on benefits, which is nonsense. Benefits do not pay the ordinary claimant enough to afford huge luxuries and never did. Anything else is a lie concocted by politicians and media that you would be a fool to believe.

Then please explain how i know a lady who doesn't work that is on benefits but can go abroad twice a year every year? 5 years since my last holiday abroad...

2 The myth that the taxpayer is being defrauded out of a fortune by benefit cheats who are (again) living a life of luxury at our expense. Just look at the figures. The fact is that only seven people in every thousand commit benefit fraud – at a consequently small cost to the overall budget – and the amount they receive simply would not support the lifestyle politicians are suggesting for them.

Do they count the people claiming incapacity who are perfectly capable of working? I suspect not...

3. The bigger myth that people prefer to live on benefits than get a job. The current situation, engineered by this government, means there are very few jobs available – around 500,000 at any one time, with 2.5 million people chasing them. Many are zero-hours jobs and part-time which do not pay more than benefits (“Making Work Pay” – another Tory lie) so anyone taking them will be out of pocket.

Meanwhile, this government has rigged the system so that anyone who does not spend the entire working week pestering local businesses for jobs that they haven't got and won't be offering will lose their benefit for a period of up to three years!

My wife's cousin and her husband have openly admitted they would be worse off by working,she hasn't ever worked and he hasn't worked in the last 10 years (during the reign of the last government i might add)

4. Finally, there is the biggest myth of all – that there isn’t enough money. HMRC just released estimates for the tax year 2011-12 suggesting it failed to collect £35 billion in evaded or avoided tax during that year.

That’s seven times more than the national bill for job seekers' allowance, and more than 29 times the estimated cost of all benefit fraud.

And it gets better. This is only an estimate and the true cost of the so-called “tax gap” is believed to be £120 billion – equal to each year’s national deficit, 24 times the cost of job seekers allowance or 100 times the cost of benefit fraud.

Why isn’t this government going after these cheats and criminals and why aren't you up in arms about this instead of directing your anger at so-called "benefits cheats"?

For the same reason the previous government didn't do a thing about it either,have a read at the following pdf and it does shed some light.Note the dates the tax laws were changed....http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Documents/500000Final.pdf

Have you not worked it out yet? The majority of politicians are morally corrupt and are in politics for one reason only...themselves.

You don't expect the politicians to have 'Honorary' seats on the board of their chums companies without pulling the strings to make sure that company makes a good profit do you? The tax avoidance saga has been and will continue to carry on until the people of this country wake up and vote the money grabbers out.

[Sandiway Blue]

Blackburns bad enough but living in bacup you must get sick of work shy, low life parasites BB. You have my sympathy.

That's what Jim doesn't understand,i pass these lazy B*stards on a daily basis and the number is a lot more than 7 for every 1,000...

[Guest Norbert]

The whole system is messed up. It seems to penalise those who have fallen on hard times, and are looking for work, by inventing all these hurdles and rules you have to follow, yet allows a section of society to play the system and be lazy. I had an awful time for a while to find a job when I moved to Coventry from Devon, and the Job Centre were as helpful as a beef suit for a lion tamer. The staff fobbed you off with 0845 numbers, saw everyone as the chav skiver stereotype, and were more interested in eating biscuits and expanding the size of their disproportionately large arses.

I didn't cost anyone anything more than the national insurance payment, as I was not entitled to JSA because I had not signed on when I went a month or two without a job 2 years before.

The same system said my former brother in law was not disabled. He does not have any eyes in his head.

[PAFELL]

I wonder if they will do a Tax dodger street programe.

[Al]

Tax avoidance is perfectly legal. It's up to to the Government to get the rules right.

[jim mk2]

D

Tax is intriguing. I'm not surprised that people get caught out. We're all human and most people look out for themselves first and foremost but the tax system really does encourage you to play it.

The tax system is far too complex and everyone would benefit including the govt if it were simpler. As you say nothing you are doing is illegal but whether it is correct and should be happening is open to question. If the govt wanted to increase the tax take and tackle the national debt seriously it should be closing all these loopholes. The financial loss to the country of tax either through avoidance or evasion is a huge problem compared to the so-called benefit cheats - but with an election on the horizon and the right wing press starting to crank up the political pressure tax cheats don't make such lurid headlines.

[JAL]

Watched a bit of the programme last night, yet not once was any money mentioned as to what the unemployed were receiving. Can anyone state what financial amounts they were receiving and what it was for.

But It was good insight into broken Britain.

[ABBEY]

One of them was getting 1500 a chuffing month!

[JAL]

One of them was getting 1500 a chuffing month!

On what type of credit was this for and was it just for a single person or family. Who said they were on 1500 a month ?

[Paul]

Edit

[thenodrog]

The tax system is far too complex and everyone would benefit including the govt if it were simpler.

Indeed. In the interests of total fair play and equality every working person without exception should pay the same rate of tax on every penny they earn. Off the top of my head a tax rate somewhere around 20% wouldn't be far wrong (but I would stand to be corrected on that rate). What could be simpler?

[jim mk2]

Simple but wrong because a flat tax penalises the poorest. The tax system needs simplifying to cut out all the exemptions, allowances and reliefs. If they did not exist taxes could be lower for everyone.

[BiggusLaddus]

Simple but wrong because a flat tax penalises the poorest. The tax system needs simplifying to cut out all the exemptions, allowances and reliefs. If they did not exist taxes could be lower for everyone.

And a tiered tax system encourages anyone who is able to 'structure' his income in a way that pays less tax.

Someone somewhere must have run the figures to compare the total tax take now, with all of its complexity and top end avoidance, against a flat tax rate (set low enough not to penalise the worst off) with zero tolerance.

[jim mk2]

Not sure what you mean by "structuring" your income but what I do know is a flat tax always penalises the poorest. It's why right wingers are so keen on it.

[Mike E]

I'd like to know how a system of 'any income over £10,000 would be taxed at 15%' would work.

So if you earn £20,000, you take home £18,500. If you earn £100,000 you take home £86,500 (I think?)

Sounds reasonable to me.

[Paul]

You need an accountant Mike

£85000

[jim mk2]

I'd like to know how a system of 'any income over £10,000 would be taxed at 15%' would work.

So if you earn £20,000, you take home £18,500. If you earn £100,000 you take home £86,500 (I think?)

Sounds reasonable to me.

Well it would, to you. Here you go.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2010/04/12/flat-tax-is-class-warfare

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/may/22/flat-taxes-taxpayers-alliance

[Mike E]

You need an accountant Mike

£85000

'Above £10k' so only the top £90k in that case is taxed.

[Mike E]

Well it would, to you. Here you go.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2010/04/12/flat-tax-is-class-warfare

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/may/22/flat-taxes-taxpayers-alliance

Are you trying to suggest the flat tax would benefit me? That I'm rich? It likely wouldn't benefit anyone in my family at the moment but it just 'sounds' more fair.

It was a suggestion and not an outright desire.

[jim mk2]

Read the articles and then decide whether it is fair.

[Guest Norbert]

Didn't the east European countries that adopted flat tax get hit harder than similar sized countries that didn't have it in 2008-9? I may have read that somewhere, but I cannot remember it.

Anyway, a flat tax would probably mean the end of the NHS, more military cuts and a massive increase in the gap between the richest and poorest. I doubt any government would bin the nuclear subs though, as they'd all rather scrap every bit of help for the unemployed and disabled before that. The elderly will be OK though, as more of them vote.

Flat tax is an interesting idea, but it does essentially put more burden on the lower earners.