[Archived] Nottingham Forest vs. Rovers - Saturday 18th January 2014

[Stuart]

Or that his scouting team reported that Leeds were there for the taking? (hell why not be positive - try it sometime, you might like it )

Yeah, that's probably it, klc, our scouts caused that change in formation - nothing to do with Lowe being suspended.

I'm plenty positive when it's warranted, thanks very much but, yes, "Let's take the positives out if that 4-1 defeat and move on".

I'll do you a deal though, I'll be positive when Bowyer's team is, ok? (Clue: that means dropping one of Williamson or Lowe and play Cairney in the centre - through choice, not only when enforced).

[Roverthechimp]

Of course Lowe being absent caused a change in the team just not as extreme a change in tactics and formation as that actually made.

No mention of the "positives" from yesterday - there weren't any but neither should that detract from the good things that have happened previously. If it takes a change in the team for you to be positive - fine that is your perogative.

Incidentally i have to wonder why you feel it constructive to post an image of the 2nd worst thing that ever happened to our club? (the first remaining unnamed for legal reasons)

[Stuart]

If you have to wonder then there's not much point in me explaining.

[Roverthechimp]

No please - explain how it is constructive?

[Stuart]

"Take the positives".

[West Yorks Rover]

"Take the positives".

Get worselves back to the training ground and ready to 'hit the ground running' in the next game !

[TBTF]

eh!

we have been relegated, up to our eye balls in debt, absent owners and a string of ex managers paid off, threat of embargoes, made a laughing stock in court,

which are the bits that never came to pass?

I agree with you Yoda.Its like living in a parallel universe reading some of this stuff.

We are significantly better this year than last and GB must take some credit for that. But we are nowhere near promotion material and to expect us to be is completely unrealistic IMO.

The problems that have been built up over the last few years will take ages to put right.People are talking like we can carry on bringing in this player , that player new GK etc.We are going to hell in a handcart financially and we cant get any players off our payroll. All these loans (and sadly thats all they are) end up with us paying the majority of wages and then they come back.

We are skint and whan parachutes finish this year we are in bother.

I wouldnt say its rebuilding , more a case of stemming the tide temporarily but we cant do it forever

[yoda]

I agree with you Yoda.Its like living in a parallel universe reading some of this stuff.

We are significantly better this year than last and GB must take some credit for that. But we are nowhere near promotion material and to expect us to be is completely unrealistic IMO.

The problems that have been built up over the last few years will take ages to put right.People are talking like we can carry on bringing in this player , that player new GK etc.We are going to hell in a handcart financially and we cant get any players off our payroll. All these loans (and sadly thats all they are) end up with us paying the majority of wages and then they come back.

We are skint and whan parachutes finish this year we are in bother.

I wouldnt say its rebuilding , more a case of stemming the tide temporarily but we cant do it forever

Its like pushing wet mud uphill

[brfcs5359]

Went to the game.

Agree with most other comments. Bowyer has brought stability and a young English squad with some decent championship players. The weakness has been in team selection and motivation.

If you didn't attend the game it went the way of many games this season. Fair play to Forest, they were positive and played to win even through there whole back four was missing.

Nothing needs to be added to the comments about Lowe and Williamson. The latter struggles at this level in most aspect and the former has a modicum of talent but doesn't show it on match days.

We failed to close Forest down in the first half and they had a stroll, stroking the ball around unchallenged as we stood off. First penalty was soft. Second no doubt it was a penalty.

Cairney was frozen out, Gestede battled but was isolated. Marshall couldn't get into the game either and we just looked like we more interested in standing off than attacking the ball of attacking with the ball. The first half was terrible bit we've seen it quite a few times before. To have two defensive midfielders and concede so many long range shots was poor from Rovers. Strange the manager does not see his selections as an issue.

With attacking substitutions and Cairney moved to the middle we took total control of the game. Every Rovers player started contributing and we pressed Forest back. However when the young lad dazzled Spurr and the rest of our defence to make it 3-1 heads dropped.

This contrast between a dominant Rovers made up of attacking players and struggling Robers made up of defensive players must feature in the managers mind? Rovers can afford to go gung ho as we aren't going down, we have nothing to lose, and nothing to fear in an average league.

It was disappointing. Henley was a long way out if his comfort zone, Lowe and Williamson struggle defensively, don't contribute attacking wise and struggle in possession of the ball. Cairney is a central midfielder. Corey Evans is missed. Dunn even at his age for the ball moving quickly. Gestede got terrible service but I think he'll do we'll for us. Hanley and Dann were poor and Spurr is struggling a bit at this level.

We have the biggest squad and on paper the best squad. Probably the highest paid too. So frustrating that we are where we are and certainly yesterday if we'd gone after their makeshift back four we may well have opened the door to three points.

For me our best line up is;

Eastwood

Kane

Spurr

Hanley

Dann

Evans

Dunn

Cairney

Marshall

Gestede

Rhodes

[USABlue]

With what seems like an over abundance of "slanted" decisions against us has anyone else found themselves wondering just how far a certain tantric dancers influence might go.

[m1st]

I agree with you Yoda.Its like living in a parallel universe reading some of this stuff.

We are significantly better this year than last and GB must take some credit for that. But we are nowhere near promotion material and to expect us to be is completely unrealistic IMO.

The problems that have been built up over the last few years will take ages to put right.People are talking like we can carry on bringing in this player , that player new GK etc.We are going to hell in a handcart financially and we cant get any players off our payroll. All these loans (and sadly thats all they are) end up with us paying the majority of wages and then they come back.

We are skint and whan parachutes finish this year we are in bother.

I wouldnt say its rebuilding , more a case of stemming the tide temporarily but we cant do it forever

I may be wrong; but I thought that when we came down from the PL that was the first season when the Parachute payments were altered so that they covered four years; albeit the last two at a much lesser rate.

It won't alter much in the great scheme of things, I know; but it'll be some contribution for next season and the one after.

[West Yorks Rover]

I may be wrong; but I thought that when we came down from the PL that was the first season when the Parachute payments were altered so that they covered four years; albeit the last two at a much lesser rate.

It won't alter much in the great scheme of things, I know; but it'll be some contribution for next season and the one after.

Down to £8m per season for 2 yrs after this one.

£16m for first 2 yrs.

[Paul]

That makes it sound like he knows what to do to win games and simply chooses not to!

I'm more inclined to believe that he was simply compensating because his favourite player, and linchpin in his preferred negative set up, wasn't available.

I'm inclined to think GB is very cautious and not prepared to take risks. As far as I can see, and I'm only judging the home games, we rarely, if ever, change our style or pattern of play. Just sat in the stands I know where the pass is going in most situations, obviously not every time but frequently enough that a decent opposition manager will easily coach his side to nullify any threat.

A part of this is the lack of an incisive, creative midfielder but equally there are two other factors. There is a real lack of movement in the team and we never take a risk.

Just how often is there a telling ball from midfield or a decent cross from the wings?

The coaching is for me very conservative and this leads to us failing to put the opposition under real pressure.

As for keeping the squad together and going up next year. Highly questionable in my view. If we can shift the deadwood and their salaries (unlikely) this could be enough I feel the financial hole will still have to be plugged by other sales.

[Stuart]

Just how often is there a telling ball from midfield or a decent cross from the wings?

Not often enough considering that we have the best header of the ball and best goalscorer in the league.

But my biggest concern is the midfield.

It's like this: would Souness have put Eyal Berkovic on the wing to accommodate Alan Mahon and Jeff Kenna in the centre?

[brfcs5359]

Not often enough considering that we have the best header of the ball and best goalscorer in the league.

But my biggest concern is the midfield.

It's like this: would Souness have put Eyal Berkovic on the wing to accommodate Alan Mahon and Jeff Kenna in the centre?

Small point. Kenna and Mahon did play the ball forward and Mahon liked to shoot.

The tactic of Williamson, Lowe, ultra negativity has some logic to it (clean sheets/stability) but it is at the moment damaging our prospects.

A top manager would have had more points from this squad.

[thenodrog]

What's that about? Williamsons no threat but Lowe cerainly isn't afraid to shoot when given the opportunity. Missed by a fraction last home game with a real thunderbolt.

[Leonard Venkhater]

With what seems like an over abundance of "slanted" decisions against us has anyone else found themselves wondering just how far a certain tantric dancers influence might go.

Anderson killed Princess Diana..anyone!

[cn174]

Small point. Kenna and Mahon did play the ball forward and Mahon liked to shoot.

The tactic of Williamson, Lowe, ultra negativity has some logic to it (clean sheets/stability) but it is at the moment damaging our prospects.

A top manager would have had more points from this squad.

It would also have some logic to it, if it actually prevented loads of goals. Which it doesn't.

[jim mk2]

We've shipped 9 in the past 2 games (against rampant Man City and unluckily a good Forest team) but before that we were looking very solid. We also played well in both games and the ball retention and passing through the midfield against City was excellent. Evans might be available for selection soon but otherwise I don't see any reason to change the line-up. .

[thenodrog]

We've shipped 9 in the past 2 games (against rampant Man City and unluckily a good Forest team) but before that we were looking very solid. We also played well in both games and the ball retention and passing through the midfield against City was excellent. Evans might be available for selection soon but otherwise I don't see any reason to change the line-up. .

Williamsons inclusion means that (currently) Marshall and Cairney are on the wing, with any four from Taylor / Dunny / King /Rhodes / Gestede and soon to be Evans on the bench. All players with more to offer the team than Williamson imo.

[roversR4ever]

I do think we all need to be realistic, myself included.

Perhaps I got a little carried away especially after the performance in the first game against City.

We looked tired against Forest. Perhaps the game against city took a lot out of our midfield especially both mentally and physically. The ref didn't help, he constantly seemed to be a "home" ref in a lot of decisions. If players were drained after the city game then that first penalty didn't help psychologically.

There is no doubt were didn't play that first half.

With some hindsight perhaps the whole of midfield should not have played against city with this game in mind. Trouble is we as fans would have been disappointed with Rovers if we hadn't put out that team! We did a lot of chasing in that game and it may have had the effect of knocking the wind out of the team for the Forest game.

Im not letting this completely cover up some weakness in the team. I do think in the CM you need players who can tackle cover space etc. My opinion many disagree is Lowe can do that. He is young and in my view will carry on improving, but at times both him and Williamson together don't offer enough on the ball.

Cairney moved into the middle is an obvious solution. I just cant make up my mind - I suspect a lot of fans feel the same. He isn't strong in the tackle so we in theory are weaker defensively. He will get less time on the ball so maybe he wont influence the game as much or maybe with his quality he will. There is no doubt even playing in the wider role he has a lot on influence on a game - he has the last few games before Forest without doubt.

The natural solution will be the return of Evans if he can find the form before injury. He is strong defensively but adds much more in attacking sense than Williamson or Lowe. He adds a real balance into the midfield. He and Lowe combine well, he can play well alongside We have missed him badly - fingers crossed he comes back and stays fit for the remainder of the season.

Its not easy and hindsight is an easy thing. There is no doubt we did ok with that starting midfield in previous games. I didn't work against Forest. Some times games can change, if that first penalty hadn't been given and then when we scored it had been the equaliser would it have given us the boost we needed and rattled Forest we can never know.

Where Bowyer must wonder is should we have gone two up front or even Dunn on for Taylor but left Gestede on.

We missed Robo in my view, not because Eastwood did much wrong more because I think he organises our defenders and givens them confidence. Especially for the younger defenders like Henley and Hanley. In other words experience. Even our experienced defenders are 26 and 27 in the last game!

In fact its easy to forget just how young the team is. Only three players over 25 started that game. In my view its why Robo is important and actually one of the older players I do actually want to keep even with his wages. I really hope that he is fit for Derby.

If we weren't in the financial mess we are in the young age would be a real blessing because you would hope they would improve over the next couple of seasons. Add a few more players and there is no reason why we couldn't hope to be in the promotion mix. We aren't exactly a millions miles off now in terms of play offs.

What is hurting us is vast majority of the experienced player we got prior to this season proved to be the wrong ones! If we had got that right we would be in a much stronger position but that's not Bowyers fault. I actually think for a first season he has brought in a decent number of good young players. If he can carry on shifting out the very expensive deadwood then we would be massively better financially. If he can carry on spotting decent young players then we can hopefully carry on getting stronger.

That's the crux of it for me. Bowyer looks like he knows and can spot decent young players certainly for the level of the Championship. He is inexperienced in terms of management just like the team and may get things wrong at times but when considering the mess the team was in there has been a big overall improvement.

It may tell us more against Derby whether we really aren't yet in good enough to scrape into the playoffs. Im not completely ruling it out especially if Robo and Evans can be involved in a lot of the remaining games. The form of the team was solid and encouraging before Forest, but will the game derail us....

[McClarky]

With what seems like an over abundance of "slanted" decisions against us has anyone else found themselves wondering just how far a certain tantric dancers influence might go.

Don't be daft.

[OJRovers]

We were missing some leaders on the pitch on saturday - i'd get Dunny and Robbo back in the team as soon as possible.

[LDRover]

We were missing some leaders on the pitch on saturday - i'd get Dunny and Robbo back in the team as soon as possible.

Kean made sure that all the ones we had were dispensed with.

Good point though, leadership is desperately lacking throughout the team apart from the 2 you mention.

[windymiller7]

I wouldn't disagree to much with that other than putting Evans in, possibly at the expense of King who I'd have on the bench to run at tired defenders.

Interestingly you've gone for Kane at RB. I've been saying for weeks that since he's been out of the team, we've offered nothing down the right, how many goals were scored from Kane assists early in the season? I don't have the stats, but I bet it's 5 or 6. I actually don't think there's much between him and Henley defence wise, but if we're losing the attacking side with Henley then it makes us much weaker as a team. I'm actually beginning to think someon's hypnotised Henley into thinking the halfway line's a cliff, he seems scared stiff of crossing it! It's obviously under instruction but why, when we were happy to let Kane bomb forward?