[Archived] Rovers Trust/Action Group/Ians

[VinjayV4]

Someone was annoyed after I mentioned insulting Matthewman (for obvious reasons) on twitter yesterday as he's part of Seneca. Well he's not the only one who's part of that group and certainly not as prominent as Ian B and Ian C. It was suggested that Seneca wouldn't make a bid now anyway (Glen Mullan said that if I recall correctly) but of course they could find alternative investors.

I wouldn't want members of the Walker Family involved anyway. Would be disgusted to see any of them hailed as one of the saviours.

[TBTF]

Someone was annoyed after I mentioned insulting Matthewman (for obvious reasons) on twitter yesterday as he's part of Seneca. Well he's not the only one who's part of that group and certainly not as prominent as Ian B and Ian C. It was suggested that Seneca wouldn't make a bid now anyway (Glen Mullan said that if I recall correctly) but of course they could find alternative investors.

My view and it might be totally wrong is that nobody will make a bid. There is nothing to bid for Vinjay-its bust in reality.

I just think operators like the Ian's are our trump card because they deal in a corporate world on a grand scale and I expect they will come across lunatics like The V's and eat them for breakfast. I just think if there is a solution to this they are best hope of finding it. And clearly with them and the Trust talking to each other however loosely and generally it 's clear to me that we have genuine Rovers fans who will try and get us out of this mess.

I might be guilty of talking myself into believing but until somebody comes up with something better it will help me sleep at night.

Can we not sue these bloody chicken farmers for negligence??

[Iceman]

To be fair Iceman I think it stopped short of ''putting the heat on Venkys'' largely because they don't reply or talk to anyone. I think it was more a message of being ready should it all hit the fan-much like Blackburn Ender is saying

Fair enough, but it was Said back then, that the Ians know prominent business people, and were ready to Line up a group of investors to take over had they bothered to sell up.

Somebody somewhere need to find a way to contact venkys, or the best thing to do is to do whatever it takes to damage them to a point where they have no option but to sell

[VinjayV4]

My view and it might be totally wrong is that nobody will make a bid. There is nothing to bid for Vinjay-its bust in reality.

I just think operators like the Ian's are our trump card because they deal in a corporate world on a grand scale and I expect they will come across lunatics like The V's and eat them for breakfast. I just think if there is a solution to this they are best hope of finding it. And clearly with them and the Trust talking to each other however loosely and generally it 's clear to me that we have genuine Rovers fans who will try and get us out of this mess.

I might be guilty of talking myself into believing but until somebody comes up with something better it will help me sleep at night.

Can we not sue these bloody chicken farmers for negligence??

No but the Walker Family could sue the trustees who have blatantly ignored various broken promises from Venkys. Would be hypocritical from the trustees of course considering the total ignorance and outright breaking of Jack's wishes.

They have sued the trustees (at least Egerton-Vernon and Mark Chown) but unsurprisingly it wasn't Rovers related. Though I think the head trustee being accused of negligence on other matters is relevant to Rovers. The problem is the Walker Family don't give a toss where Rovers are concerned to look into it.

Seneca have people working there who have been affiliated with the likes of Apax Partners. Far better than Holdsworth's operation as I made the mistake of comparing with until looking at both sites.

[TBTF]

Fair enough, but it was Said back then, that the Ians know prominent business people, and were ready to Line up a group of investors to take over had they bothered to sell up.

Somebody somewhere need to find a way to contact venkys, or the best thing to do is to do whatever it takes to damage them to a point where they have no option but to sell

That might still be in their thinking Iceman-none of us know what is happening behind the scenes

[koi]

No but the Walker Family could sue the trustees who have blatantly ignored various broken promises from Venkys. Would be hypocritical from the trustees of course considering the total ignorance and outright breaking of Jack's wishes.

They have sued the trustees of course (at least Egerton-Vernon and Mark Chown) but unsurprisingly it wasn't Rovers related.

Seneca have people working there who have been affiliated with the likes of Apax Partners. Far better than Holdsworth's operation as I made the mistake of comparing with until looking at both sites.

As we have discussed,who in the Walker family is remotely interested?

[Iceman]

That might still be in their thinking Iceman-none of us know what is happening behind the scenes

I'm clinging to any type of hope that might be available. Any saviour, a hero to save the day, and I'm hoping the Ians or the trust or somebody can provide us with a way out of this misery

[VinjayV4]

As we have discussed,who in the Walker family is remotely interested?

None of course but who else could sue Venkys other than the trustees? I'm just pointing out that the Walker Family COULD look into suing the trustees over Rovers not that they will. How could fans look into suing Venkys? Best chance would have been after that fire in the DE a few years back.

[TBTF]

I'm clinging to any type of hope that might be available. Any saviour, a hero to save the day, and I'm hoping the Ians or the trust or somebody can provide us with a way out of this misery

I know mate , you and me both.

[Stuart]

My view and it might be totally wrong is that nobody will make a bid. There is nothing to bid for Vinjay-its bust in reality.

I just think operators like the Ian's are our trump card because they deal in a corporate world on a grand scale and I expect they will come across lunatics like The V's and eat them for breakfast. I just think if there is a solution to this they are best hope of finding it. And clearly with them and the Trust talking to each other however loosely and generally it 's clear to me that we have genuine Rovers fans who will try and get us out of this mess.

I might be guilty of talking myself into believing but until somebody comes up with something better it will help me sleep at night.

Can we not sue these bloody chicken farmers for negligence??

Good post.

I think my worry is that Venkys can afford to play the long game where Rovers are concerned. Providing the losses are stemmed they can watch the club rot (no, not watch, ignore). The longer they are here the less there will be for a Seneca-backed RoversTrust to salvage. They could just sit tight until they get an offer that suits them. The only 'good' thing is that with nothing at the club to asset strip we should be safe from anyone the likes of whom took over at Pompey coming in.

[thegrumpyman]

No one is going to buy us. We would have to buy it back ourselves and I don't think we've got that type of coin between us. The Venkys are batshit crazy.

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

So have the trust had contact with the Owners?

I don't think anyone, not even the directors of the club, have had any direct contact with the owners. We're doing our very best though! We know Paul Lambert didn't...

[yoda]

None of course but who else could sue Venkys other than the trustees? I'm just pointing out that the Walker Family COULD look into suing the trustees over Rovers not that they will. How could fans look into suing Venkys? Best chance would have been after that fire in the DE a few years back.

What are you going to sue them for Vinjay ?

What loss have you suffered ?

[Ste B]

What are you going to sue them for Vinjay ?

What loss have you suffered ?

How can you sue somebody for doing what they want with what they legally own. (@vinjay not yoda)

[scotchrover]

None of course but who else could sue Venkys other than the trustees? I'm just pointing out that the Walker Family COULD look into suing the trustees over Rovers not that they will. How could fans look into suing Venkys? Best chance would have been after that fire in the DE a few years back.

We need to be realistic though. The Walker family couldn't wait to offload us. Could we put together a legal case against the F.A./Premier League though? The so called proper ownership test must have been soiled on 1000 times over, by our owners. Any legal experts want to step forward? Surely we as stakeholders must have some kind of case!

[VinjayV4]

We need to be realistic though. The Walker family couldn't wait to offload us. Could we put together a legal case against the F.A./Premier League though? The so called proper ownership test must have been soiled on 1000 times over, by our owners. Any legal experts want to step forward? Surely we as stakeholders must have some kind of case!

I'm not saying they would but the original post was could we sue Venkys for negligence? Clearly the fans can't and at the moment nobody can decide what to do v Reading never mind legally challenge the Football League. I mentioned the trustees (as they might be only ones with a case to sue Venkys not that I expect for one moment they would) and that led to my reference to the Walker family suing the trustees.

Matthewman taking a dig at Arsene Wenger on twitter yesterday. Meanwhile Venkys pile more misery on his Father In Law's club and no mention at all. Such priorities!

[Daniel Louis Grabko (Dan)]

Sorry if this is the wrong thread, I could not seem to find the official Rovers Trust thread anywhere, but admins feel free to move this post there if I am just blind!

As many of you may have already heard in the traditional and social media channels as well the FSF, Rovers Trust has officially changed its stance from trying to work with the current ownership to calling for Venky's to publicly put the club up for sale.

FSF Story:

http://www.fsf.org.uk/latest-news/view/blackburn-is-toxic-brand-under-venkys-ownership-say-fans

Lancashire Telegraph:

http://m.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/14701677.Rovers_Trust_calls_on_Venky_s_to_put_Blackburn_Rovers_up_for_sale/

Official Statement from Rovers Trust:

https://www.facebook.com/RoversTrust/posts/1137827599631326

Tweet via Wayne Wild, Rovers Trust Chairman:

https://twitter.com/mrwawild/status/768533893846884354

[Ozz]

TAKEN FROM THE BLACKPOOL PROTEST THREAD TO AVOID OFF TOPIC

I know I read it! I thought at the time what a bloody joke. I'm 70 and live hours way from Blackburn, and won"t be visiting again till Venkys have gone. The Trust has a DUTY to inform all its members of what they are about not just those who can sidle up to the bar at the Ewood WMC!

Sorry, I wasn`t aware of these circumstances! We agree that the Trust has been lacking in it`s communications of late, and we are going to improve that ASAP.

The issue that time was the failure to use Trust money to fund the Indian advert. the additional one is why the Trust is playing no role in today's protests, no role that I know of anyway.

We agreed to make a donation in principal, subject to us seeing copy and being happy with this. The board decided that this was not a good use of members funds on that occasion.

Amateur doesn't cover it. You take my subs annually but don"t value me! PM me and tell me what I would have heard if I'd been able to drop into the WMC at Ewood!

When the balloon goes up, fans are relying on the Trust to act. Is it capable?

The Rovers Trust was created to obtain full or part ownership of Blackburn Rovers Football Club and its assets on behalf of fellow supporters in order to represent supporters views, whilst protecting the club's short and long-term future. This remains the mission statement of the Trust some four and a half years after the public launch.

Whilst the club has had some small successes in that time, the general direction of the club has been one of rapid decline in all areas. The club finds itself in the lowest league position for a generation, and the implications of this, coupled with the obvious lack of interest from the current ownership means that the role of Trust is as important now as it has ever been. If we were mid table in the Premier League, there would not be much interest in us at all. If and when the club next changes ownership, the Trust feels that it is imperative that the supporters have a level of say in the running of the club when this happens.

I personally feel that currently the majority of supporters want a change of ownership.. But as some other clubs supporters will tell you, be careful what you wish for. The single biggest reason I stood up when the Trust was being formed is that I personally believe that supporter ownership, full or part, is the only way to ensure the long term successful running of Rovers. Anything else is always going to be a leap into the unknown. That is why despite many other demands on mine and other Trust board members time, we do what we can when we can to help the Trust remain relevant and to ensure that when `The balloon Goes Up`. the Trust IS capable of stepping up

If a potential new owner comes along, we want them to see the Trust as the ideal partner for a new ownership regime. Professional, relevant, organised, in touch with the supporter base, routed in the heart of the community. Our role in the current activities being organised under the WAR umbrella is to seek out ways of forcing a change in ownership within these parameters. We are currently involved in promoting a change in legislation in how football clubs are owned on a wider scale, something that would benefit football as a whole. We helped in initiating Early Day Motion 611 Football Corruption aimed at changing the way clubs are run and owned

We are very lucky in that we have The Action Group and people like Mark Fish, Paul Keogh, Graham Reid (Plus Leonard Venkhater, MCMC1875 etc etc) who are working tirelessly to create awareness of the clubs plight on the ground, with more of a free reign to organise events and actions to hopefully somehow force the issue forward with Venkys. The regular Ewood WMC club meetings are now effectively the We Are Rovers meetings. The Action Group, Trust, Ewood Blues, BRFCC all meeting together to discuss actions, share information and work together with the same goal-Venkys out!

We are going to have our AGM on March 17th, venue TBC. We would welcome all Trust members and none members to attend. If anyone feels they can contribute to the Trust in some way, we are actively looking for more volunteers. Or you can apply for a role in the board-there is an election-Chairman, Vice Chaiman, etc etc. Put your name forward! The famous JFK quote that was banded around recently following Trumps inauguration rings true here-Ask Not What The Trust Can do For you, But What You Can For The Trust!

47er I`ve DM`d you my personal mobile number-if you have any questions please feel free to ring me, I`ll do my best to answer.

[Neal]

After speaking to certain other fans yesterday, the trust needs a complete revamp, people need to step aside and let other passionate fans take the reigns, it's become a joke.

[Paul]

After speaking to certain other fans yesterday, the trust needs a complete revamp, people need to step aside and let other passionate fans take the reigns, it's become a joke.

Fans may well feel this is the case but I think you will find getting people to stop talking and start walking are two very different things.

In the period I worked with the Trust one, yes ONE, person other than the founding group stepped forward offering to help. Judging only by the current committee the position hasn't changed much, if at all.

Looking at the BRAG committee, which I can only ever do from outside, it appears to be a similar situation.

Anyone wanting to effect change in any aspect of life, society or football has to become involved as opposed to criticising from the sidelines.

I feel sure everyone of those fans would be welcomed if they wish to contribute.

[Dunnfc]

Appreciate Ozz's post and time he's put in to date, but it needs as Neal says a total overhaul. My impressions of Wayne Wild for some reason makes me feel quite uneasy although i've never met him and quite convincingly perhaps wrong!

Looking at this paragraph it suggests you are not addressing reality;

If a potential new owner comes along, we want them to see the Trust as the ideal partner for a new ownership regime. Professional, relevant, organised, in touch with the supporter base, routed in the heart of the community. Our role in the current activities being organised under the WAR umbrella is to seek out ways of forcing a change in ownership within these parameters. We are currently involved in promoting a change in legislation in how football clubs are owned on a wider scale, something that would benefit football as a whole. We helped in initiating Early Day Motion 611 Football Corruption aimed at changing the way clubs are run and owned

Right now we need to concentrate on batting down the hatches in relation to the clubs assets and making them CAV's like Ewood to restrict any attempted Venky sale and also aim at lowering the value and market if we do indeed enter administration. E.G If an asset is for a sporting purpose only it's highly unlikely there would be to much interest as opposed to a developer etc without CAV's, this includes Brockhole, Car Parks the lot!

We also need to start looking at insolvency, administration and possible newco events.

[47er]

OK Ozz, thats for the reply and the PM. I'm pleased you agree with me about communication. I honestly go a whole year without anything other than a notification that I've paid another year's subs! So I look forward to that.

I agree completely about the work of Messers Fish, Leonard and the rest but still believe the Trust should be doing more to help them. You did announce WAR. What for if you want others to do the heavy lifting?

Anyhow, I'll watch and wait. I really do want you to succeed.

[Neal]

Fans may well feel this is the case but I think you will find getting people to stop talking and start walking are two very different things.

In the period I worked with the Trust one, yes ONE, person other than the founding group stepped forward offering to help. Judging only by the current committee the position hasn't changed much, if at all.

Looking at the BRAG committee, which I can only ever do from outside, it appears to be a similar situation.

Anyone wanting to effect change in any aspect of life, society or football has to become involved as opposed to criticising from the sidelines.

I feel sure everyone of those fans would be welcomed if they wish to contribute.

Having spoken to other fans yesterday it was pretty clear why more people haven't gotten involved. After reading this then I'll seek to get further information and possible involvement... but I'm not about to do it and place effort into something to fuel another's ego and status. I've asked the question before with no answer that if the trust were ever in a position to buy a meaningful share in the club, would the person to represent us be voted by the fans? (trust members) This should be a democratically run organisation which it APPEARS not to be on face value.

[Stuart]

Having spoken to other fans yesterday it was pretty clear why more people haven't gotten involved. After reading this then I'll seek to get further information and possible involvement... but I'm not about to do it and place effort into something to fuel another's ego and status. I've asked the question before with no answer that if the trust were ever in a position to buy a meaningful share in the club, would the person to represent us be voted by the fans? (trust members) This should be a democratically run organisation which it APPEARS not to be on face value.

In my experience, voluntary organisations with small committed and small membership bases are not and cannot be democratically run. They are necessarily autocratic and run by people who genuinely feel they have a mandate to do what they believe members want.

If you want a democratic organisation, it needs a much larger and more involved membership from which to elect a committee. This requires people to have time and capacity to help. Right now we can't even get people to back a very simple initiative like all fans making their way to the ground all from the same starting point and the same route. This doesn't require ANY additional effort beyond turning up an hour early at the turn hall. This would be the start of some fan unity and a proper democratic process but as it is, we have three, maybe four, well-meaning groups all trying to rally folk who think like them.

But say the wrong word, even to people who agree with you, and the defences go up, such is the fragility and lack of trust between supporters. Anyway, in my view, things have moved on. Trying to unite Rovers supporters is a waste of effort and energy. Those groups who are motivated and do want change need to get together with their counterparts at other clubs and start to engage their local MPs. The inertia created by arrogant, careless, negligent owners not listening needs to be turned into lobbying the relevant regulatory bodies to put pressure of the footballing authorities to make owners like Venkys and SISU resubmit to an updated and annual fitness test, the failure of which would see the lose their shareholding.

This is the national sport in this country and something which is important to a hell of a lot of people/communities around the country and it needs protecting from outside agents who seek to skim off the top of it for the good of themselves.

This is where we need the brains and standing of certain individuals and groups to help to direct and channel the passion of the protest groups into something more fruitful that locking horns with fellow supporters who are just waiting and hoping for a wrong move that they can seize on as an excuse to exorcise their own guilt. But because I've said that there will be a reaction that I'm now causing the problem. We need to have these robust conversations and deal with the fall out like grown ups. Take criticism on the chin and find the RIGHT way forward. I'm more than happy for someone to tell me the reasons why continuing to protest won't work - providing they offer an alternative and are willing to walk the talk. Well, talk is cheap.

[Neal]

In my experience, voluntary organisations with small committed and small membership bases are not and cannot be democratically run. They are necessarily autocratic and run by people who genuinely feel they have a mandate to do what they believe members want.

If you want a democratic organisation, it needs a much larger and more involved membership from which to elect a committee. This requires people to have time and capacity to help. Right now we can't even get people to back a very simple initiative like all fans making their way to the ground all from the same starting point and the same route. This doesn't require ANY additional effort beyond turning up an hour early at the turn hall. This would be the start of some fan unity and a proper democratic process but as it is, we have three, maybe four, well-meaning groups all trying to rally folk who think like them.

But say the wrong word, even to people who agree with you, and the defences go up, such is the fragility and lack of trust between supporters. Anyway, in my view, things have moved on. Trying to unite Rovers supporters is a waste of effort and energy. Those groups who are motivated and do want change need to get together with their counterparts at other clubs and start to engage their local MPs. The inertia created by arrogant, careless, negligent owners not listening needs to be turned into lobbying the relevant regulatory bodies to put pressure of the footballing authorities to make owners like Venkys and SISU resubmit to an updated and annual fitness test, the failure of which would see the lose their shareholding.

This is the national sport in this country and something which is important to a hell of a lot of people/communities around the country and it needs protecting from outside agents who seek to skim off the top of it for the good of themselves.

This is where we need the brains and standing of certain individuals and groups to help to direct and channel the passion of the protest groups into something more fruitful that locking horns with fellow supporters who are just waiting and hoping for a wrong move that they can seize on as an excuse to exorcise their own guilt. But because I've said that there will be a reaction that I'm now causing the problem. We need to have these robust conversations and deal with the fall out like grown ups. Take criticism on the chin and find the RIGHT way forward. I'm more than happy for someone to tell me the reasons why continuing to protest won't work - providing they offer an alternative and are willing to walk the talk. Well, talk is cheap.

Think you definitely have a point about why it doesn't work but having spoken to the Pool fans their trust seem to really work for them, made up of some really decent who I have met. They certainly aren't setting up new imaginary groups that do nothing and spend time sitting in private boxes at Bloomfield Road that's for sure, they're down in the muck getting their hands dirty.

On the rest of your post I agree but I personally believe the only way to ensure these situations don't happen again is to keep the pressure on the F.A. to follow the German and Dutch models of governance. This would be a massive game changer in this country.