[Archived] Formation and Tactics

[CapeTownRover]

while Bowyer has steadied things, and going into the Forest game, we were 1 defeat in 8 and on a good ish run. From reading the comments, it seems majority are of the opinion, that Bowyer has on many occasions got his formations and tactics wrong.

its clear that Cairney is wasted on the wing, and that Lowe and Williamson together is a no no.

are there other tactics which Bowyer has got wrong, and what should he be doing, to rectify things?

[tomphil]

As iv'e said before he's done a good job but at times his tactics hold us back. That was poor again today right from the start just sit back and invite pressure on time and again then eventually something gives, helped by ref today of course. But it's an all too familiar pattern this season when we find ourselves behind and only then start playing. Big supporter of GB but sometimes he needs a kick up the ass it's so bloody annoying.

[K-Hod]

As I said on another thread, I'm sick of highlighting the same problems every week.

It's a system to fit his favoured players rather than the other way around.

[tomphil]

As I said on another thread, I'm sick of highlighting the same problems every week.

It's a system to fit his favoured players rather than the other way around.

Bang on. It's that stubborn thing some managers have then when it works the odd time they bang on about it in an 'i told you so manner'. Thing is we play two defensive mids side by side who naturally drop deep anyway inviting pressure on. Yesterday it seemed Lansbury was their deep striker playing in the hole between our deep mids and defense, surely a defensive mid should be picking him up or what's the point. At least stagger them a bit.

[moerpho]

It will be interesting to see what happens to both the formation and who gets dropped when Evans (our best midfielder) is back from injury. Hope we'll go 4-4-2 and that Bowyer decides to drop Willamson. Don't get to see enough games these days, but got a feeling Lowe will perform better playing with Evans. Would rather have a midfieldairing of Evans-Cairney myself, but Lowe seems to be first name on the team sheet. Hope Evans will be back to full match fitness in a week or two(?) and hope he will find the same form he had before the injury.

[Neal]

As I said on another thread, I'm sick of highlighting the same problems every week.

It's a system to fit his favoured players rather than the other way around.

Correct. To add, I can understand why he's playing 2 holding midfielders... It's just not working. It's holding back our more expressive players from going to win a game and it's keeping players out of the team who can make a difference and put us on the front foot from the off.

[tomphil]

It will be interesting to see what happens to both the formation and who gets dropped when Evans (our best midfielder) is back from injury. Hope we'll go 4-4-2 and that Bowyer decides to drop Willamson. Don't get to see enough games these days, but got a feeling Lowe will perform better playing with Evans. Would rather have a midfieldairing of Evans-Cairney myself, but Lowe seems to be first name on the team sheet. Hope Evans will be back to full match fitness in a week or two(?) and hope he will find the same form he had before the injury.

I can seriously see him starting with Lowe, Williamson as usual with Evans inbetween them and Rhodes or Rudy whichever is the one up front, i really can.

[rovers11]

Too much emphasis is placed on tactics and formations. That is important but that's only part of it, it's also about players doing their jobs properly. Yesterday, Williamson and Lowe did not do their job properly - stats showed they made ONE successful tackle between in the whole of the match yesterday. Forest pressed higher, had more energy and wanted it more. That's not down to tactics or formations that is down to the attitude of the players.

Compare that to how we played against QPR away and city at home, for example. We pressed high up the pitch, closed down players quickly and had bags of energy. The same system was used yesterday that we used in those two games but we didn't have the same application and that's down to the players.

Think of other times we've lost this season, it's largely been down to individual errors and not formations or tactics. We have played too defensively at times this season but we're 8th in the league and not far off the play off places and have kept a huge amount of clean sheets so the tactics/formations haven't exactly been that poor.

Cairney has been excellent when he's played right midfield so I'm not sure that's such a big issue as some people make out. The main issue is that playing him on the right has left a CM of Williamson and Lowe which is not dynamic enough. Once Evans returns he will add that dynamic element to the centre of midfield.

[Neal]

Cairney has been excellent when he's played right midfield so I'm not sure that's such a big issue as some people make out. The main issue is that playing him on the right has left a CM of Williamson and Lowe which is not dynamic enough. Once Evans returns he will add that dynamic element to the centre of midfield.

Are you for real? I was there yesterday and the ONLY time we looked half decent is when he drifted in to middle of the pitch and just behind the strikers. Because Henley has been absolutely awful he keeps having to drop deeper & deeper to help him out rendering him useless to us for large portions of the game. You're not watching the same performances I'm seeing.

[davulsukur]

. Yesterday, Williamson and Lowe did not do their job properly - stats showed they made ONE successful tackle between in the whole of the match yesterday. 

That is absolutely disgraceful.

[rovers11]

Are you for real? I was there yesterday and the ONLY time we looked half decent is when he drifted in to middle of the pitch and just behind the strikers. Because Henley has been absolutely awful he keeps having to drop deeper & deeper to help him out rendering him useless to us for large portions of the game. You're not watching the same performances I'm seeing.

He's better in CM but sill effective when playing wide right. The major problem is that Williamson and Lowe are poor players so it makes us weak in CM when Cairney plays out wide. When Evans and Lowe were in CM and Cairney was wide right I thought it was very effective. In saying that, I'd rather see Evans and Cairney in CM and a new right winger come in. Cairney is one of those players who can play anywhere and is still outstanding. For instance, he played wide right against Man City at Ewood and was the best player on the pitch.

[Neal]

He's better in CM but sill effective when playing wide right. The major problem is that Williamson and Lowe are poor players so it makes us weak in CM when Cairney plays out wide. When Evans and Lowe were in CM and Cairney was wide right I thought it was very effective. In saying that, I'd rather see Evans and Cairney in CM and a new right winger come in. Cairney is one of those players who can play anywhere and is still outstanding. For instance, he played wide right against Man City at Ewood and was the best player on the pitch.

Fair point. Personally I thought the odd time we saw Cairney just behind the Gestede yesterday he looked frightening.

[ABBEY]

Are you for real? I was there yesterday and the ONLY time we looked half decent is when he drifted in to middle of the pitch and just behind the strikers. Because Henley has been absolutely awful he keeps having to drop deeper & deeper to help him out rendering him useless to us for large portions of the game. You're not watching the same performances I'm seeing.

i wouldnt bite mr or mrs 11 thinks everything is hunky dory in lalala land.

[rovers11]

i wouldnt bite mr or mrs 11 thinks everything is hunky dory in lalala land.

The complete opposite. Everything is not hunky dory and hasn't been for the last 3 years and that's one of the reasons why I think the job GB is doing is very good.

[Neal]

The complete opposite. Everything is not hunky dory and hasn't been for the last 3 years and that's one of the reasons why I think the job GB is doing is very good.

As discussed, this is wearing thin now. One of the most expensive squads in the league with the best centre forward in the league... Looking where we are, it's absolutely criminal. If we're taking Bowyer by his word and the owners don't get on his back after each defeat & they're not making silly appointments and comments... Then what needs to be 'steadied' exactly? The only way the club can be more stable at this point is if we go for a promotion push. As i've said repeatedly, to do that you have to try to win games. Things will very quickly become more UNSTABLE if Bowyer carries on with these conservative tactics & the cracks are already beginning to show between him and some fans. He needs a good re-think about what he wants from now till the end of the season because his tactical attitude is just not acceptable given the resources invested. To sum up, given our league position... He's doing a bang average job.

Must try harder.

[imy9]

As discussed, this is wearing thin now. One of the most expensive squads in the league with the best centre forward in the league... Looking where we are, it's absolutely criminal. If we're taking Bowyer by his word and the owners don't get on his back after each defeat & they're not making silly appointments and comments... Then what needs to be 'steadied' exactly? The only way the club can be more stable at this point is if we go for a promotion push. As i've said repeatedly, to do that you have to try to win games. Things will very quickly become more UNSTABLE if Bowyer carries on with these conservative tactics & the cracks are already beginning to show between him and some fans. He needs a good re-think about what he wants from now till the end of the season because his tactical attitude is just not acceptable given the resources invested. To sum up, given our league position... He's doing a bang average job.

Must try harder.

With a more expensive squad of players last year we looked destined for league 1. So within eight months of avoiding relegation, we are a few points off the play offs, having slashed our wage bill and purchased a large number of free transfers?

Last three years we have been unstable on the pitch as well as off it, we are finally stable on it, we have the second youngest squad in the championship, this means inconsistency from the players. We have a bloke who has never managed before, this will mean inconsistency.

I can agree with the subs debate, playing two defensive mids debate but to say he is doing a average job, considering where we have been for the last three years, is frankly daft imo.

[K-Hod]

All well and good saying that, but do you think the best eleven players get picked every week?

Do you not think we should or could be doing better? Because, as much as Bowyer has been a breath of fresh air compared to any of the last 3 years' managers, he's not above criticism and he could be doing better.

[imy9]

All well and good saying that, but do you think the best eleven players get picked every week?

Do you not think we should or could be doing better? Because, as much as Bowyer has been a breath of fresh air compared to any of the last 3 years' managers, he's not above criticism and he could be doing better.

Based on what I have seen yes they should be doing better, however they are young players with a young manager, they will make mistakes. Bowyers fault in that he has raised expectation this season. I have an issue with saying he has done a bang average job. Appleton, Berg both had more experience than him and could not turn us around.

[tomphil]

They keep saying we've turned a corner now and we need to kick on, both Bowyer and various players say this every time we get a few good results. Well if you want to kick on then you have to damn well try to do so and go for some wins instead of safety first. If they want to remain stable and bobble to the end of the season then fair enough keep with the tactics (which don't work half the time) but don't keep saying otherwise and raising fans hopes up. Just now and again go for it ala Leeds away, if you figure your goin to lose away at Forest then have a go attacking from the off, we have the players. Not gung ho just set out to give the oppo something to think about.

[West Yorks Rover]

They keep saying we've turned a corner now and we need to kick on, both Bowyer and various players say this every time we get a few good results. Well if you want to kick on then you have to damn well try to do so and go for some wins instead of safety first. If they want to remain stable and bobble to the end of the season then fair enough keep with the tactics (which don't work half the time) but don't keep saying otherwise and raising fans hopes up. Just now and again go for it ala Leeds away, if you figure your goin to lose away at Forest then have a go attacking from the off, we have the players. Not gung ho just set out to give the oppo something to think about.

Agree with this, 1 point doesn't get you in the play-offs, 3 does.

We need to 'go for it' or we'll finish mid-table.

[Shabani]

Just looking at our results with Lowe and Williamson playing together vs our results when only one plays。 I've gone back to Sep 17 because before then Williamson was suspended for one and injured for the beginning of the season

(taken out the FA cup games)

LOWE AND WILLIAMSON - 9 games - 2 wins, 4 defeats, 3 draws (F8 A15)

Just LOWE or WILLIAMSON - 10 games - 6 wins, 2 defeats (one defeat featured an early red for Hanley) 2 draws (F12 A7)

So just going purely off statistics, when they pay together in the league we average exactly 1pt per game, with just one playing its exactly 2 pts per game!!!!

Interesting

[Neal]

Based on what I have seen yes they should be doing better, however they are young players with a young manager, they will make mistakes. Bowyers fault in that he has raised expectation this season. I have an issue with saying he has done a bang average job. Appleton, Berg both had more experience than him and could not turn us around.

Just because you compare him to those 2 doesn't mean he's done a fantastic job at all. They were poor and Bowyer has done a little better. The wage bill has been slashed but he's made signings of his own and we're mid table... Bang average.

Just looking at our results with Lowe and Williamson playing together vs our results when only one plays。 I've gone back to Sep 17 because before then Williamson was suspended for one and injured for the beginning of the season

(taken out the FA cup games)

LOWE AND WILLIAMSON - 9 games - 2 wins, 4 defeats, 3 draws (F8 A15)

Just LOWE or WILLIAMSON - 10 games - 6 wins, 2 defeats (one defeat featured an early red for Hanley) 2 draws (F12 A7)

So just going purely off statistics, when they pay together in the league we average exactly 1pt per game, with just one playing its exactly 2 pts per game!!!!

Interesting

Game set and match on that debate as far as I'm concerned. Should have been weeks ago, but the stubborn few keep arguing.

[Amo]

So we've conceded over double WITH the two def midfielders shielding the back-four?

[Proudtobeblue&white]

Just looking at our results with Lowe and Williamson playing together vs our results when only one plays。 I've gone back to Sep 17 because before then Williamson was suspended for one and injured for the beginning of the season

(taken out the FA cup games)

LOWE AND WILLIAMSON - 9 games - 2 wins, 4 defeats, 3 draws (F8 A15)

Just LOWE or WILLIAMSON - 10 games - 6 wins, 2 defeats (one defeat featured an early red for Hanley) 2 draws (F12 A7)

So just going purely off statistics, when they pay together in the league we average exactly 1pt per game, with just one playing its exactly 2 pts per game!!!!

Interesting

Send to Gary's inbox?

[yoda]

So we've conceded over double WITH the two def midfielders shielding the back-four?

Send to Gary's inbox?

You would hope someone had already pointed this stat out to GB