[Archived] Safe Standing - Lobby the club to vote YES before Friday

[Mike E]

The reason why Hillsborough and all seater stadiums happened was because of football hooligans. Their behaviour including pitch invasions on various occasions, led to the fencing in of terraces. You can talk about the thousands of Liverpool fans who turns up ticketless and were pushing and shoving outside the stadium, and fatally inept policing decisions, but if it hadn't been for hooligans there would have been no fences to trap fans in the pens. Was that ever mentioned in the Hillsborough inquest, probably not. Terraces are dangerous places and should not be brought back, just remember Bolton FA cup disaster, Hyjsel, Inbrox etc.

Utter @#/?.

Pens or no pens, the police chiefs killed Liverpool fans that day. Neither fans nor police (as a whole) were responsible. End of story.

[ABBEY]

what about the ticketless fans that swelled the numbers? Surely they played a part ?

[Giant]

If you read my post carefully(#70), I was making a general observation that the root cause of the disaster can be taken back to hooligan behaviour which led the government to enforcing fencing in of fans. If these fences hadn't been there, the a lot of the fans at Hillsborough could have got out of the pens when hundreds of others came in at the back as a result of the terrible police decision to open the gates at the stadium entrance. Many police officers saw football fans as a rabble, who should be treated like animals. The behaviour of hooligans fostered this view, while innocent fans were often tarred with the same brush. Some folk seem to think I was blaming Liverpool fans alone. I maintain that standing terraces are dangerous places to begin with.

[Mattyblue]

I maintain that standing terraces are dangerous places to begin with.

A ticketed area that only allows a set amount of people (approved by the HSE and local safety committee) into a set space with fixed barriers are 'dangerous'?

On what grounds? Do you have any case studies?

[Blueandwhitemike]

To say what is safe in Germany can't be done safely in England is nonsense.

Safe standing will come it's just a matter of when. As has been said many times, loads of people stand and it would be much safer if they did so in areas designed for the purpose. There really is no argument against it.

Personally I LOVED standing on the BBE, the atmosphere was so much better, so I hope it comes sooner rather than later.

[Mike E]

If you read my post carefully(#70), I was making a general observation that the root cause of the disaster can be taken back to hooligan behaviour which led the government to enforcing fencing in of fans. If these fences hadn't been there, the a lot of the fans at Hillsborough could have got out of the pens when hundreds of others came in at the back as a result of the terrible police decision to open the gates at the stadium entrance. Many police officers saw football fans as a rabble, who should be treated like animals. The behaviour of hooligans fostered this view, while innocent fans were often tarred with the same brush. Some folk seem to think I was blaming Liverpool fans alone. I maintain that standing terraces are dangerous places to begin with.

The pens were circumstantial imo. Appropriate stewarding would have seen the influx of fans guided into pens 1 and 4 instead of just the central pens.

My dad always said, as a general rule, if you could see concrete on a terrace it was only half-full maximum.

Safe-standing should have been the go-to solution, not permanent seating. I'd still argue that the back 5-10 rows of a given stand could be free-standing even now.

[AggyBlue]

I maintain that standing terraces are dangerous places to begin with.

Rugby League doesn't have a problem with terracing, in fact all the new stadiums have incorporated a minimum one full stand of terracing.

[Lancaster Rover]

Rugby League doesn't have a problem with terracing, in fact all the new stadiums have incorporated a minimum one full stand of terracing.

Open terraces where you can drink alcohol in view of the playing area too.

[JBiz]

Open terraces where you can drink alcohol in view of the playing area too.

If that's true, utterly mind boggling! How can that be fair and how has this not been revoked since thatcher?

[Baz]

If that's true, utterly mind boggling! How can that be fair and how has this not been revoked since thatcher?

In cricket they have to define non-drinking stands. There are still quite a few grounds where you can stand if you like, or bring your own camping chair, hamper and ice-box - occasionally there may be some sport too.

[Proudtobeblue&white]

We just can't be trusted us footy fans, we are still scum........

[Al]

I'm not keen on standing at football matches but I have no objection to standing areas provided no one stands in the area where I want to sit_.

[Mike E]

I'm not keen on standing at football matches but I have no objection to standing areas provided no one stands in the area where I want to sit_.

I think this is the best solution.

Though simply put, we don't even need crash barriers put in. Just allow the back 5 or so rows of any tier to stand (plus those feeling agreeable in front). The seats (or shin-scrapes) are enough of a barrier.

[Stuart]

I think this is the best solution.

Though simply put, we don't even need crash barriers put in. Just allow the back 5 or so rows of any tier to stand (plus those feeling agreeable in front). The seats (or shin-scrapes) are enough of a barrier.

Any HSE rep being asked to sign off the stadium safety certificate would disagree.

[Claytons Left Boot]

If that's true, utterly mind boggling! How can that be fair and how has this not been revoked since thatcher?

Whilst there has been the odd problem with rugby league fans over the years, by and large we are a well behaved lot. New stadia are often built with two standing ends and a seated 'stand' down each side. Those who want to sit, sit and those who want to stand, stand. Simples! What's more, if you fancy a couple of pints whilst watching the game, no problem. And, if you see a policeman, it's a rarity. They're not required.

There is no reason whatsoever that the same conditions could not apply at football. Maybe not the absence of the police but certainly the standing and seating arrangements. Ticketed, standing enclosures are common sense.

[Mike E]

Any HSE rep being asked to sign off the stadium safety certificate would disagree.

While I agree (because H&S is horrendous), I don't understand how seats are fine when thousands of people are jumping about in ecstacy or angrily questioning the referee's parentage, but the exact same environment stood up is unthinkable.

[Stuart]

While I agree (because H&S is horrendous), I don't understand how seats are fine when thousands of people are jumping about in ecstacy or angrily questioning the referee's parentage, but the exact same environment stood up is unthinkable.

Agreed. But your HSE bod would be having fits if they saw people jumping up and down in rated areas. Well, 'fits' in a very orderly and safe manner whilst wearing lots of PPE and covered in bubble wrap.

[West Yorks Rover]

Apologies if someone has already posted this, I've just been reading that Celtic will be the first football club in the UK to have a safe standing area,

will be introduced from the start of next season and will accommodate 2,600 fans.

[Neal]

Apologies if someone has already posted this, I've just been reading that Celtic will be the first football club in the UK to have a safe standing area,

will be introduced from the start of next season and will accommodate 2,600 fans.

Think its been mentioned yeah. Fair play to them, a club that also has close ties to Liverpool promoting SAFE standing. Everyone else should take note. I dont really get why this is such a difficult thing to implement, Hillsbrough happen agaes ago and it has clearly been leanred from. There is a large community that wants to stand and support their football team, lets cater for them and bloody move on.

[Mike E]

Think its been mentioned yeah. Fair play to them, a club that also has close ties to Liverpool promoting SAFE standing. Everyone else should take note. I dont really get why this is such a difficult thing to implement, Hillsbrough happen agaes ago and it has clearly been leanred from. There is a large community that wants to stand and support their football team, lets cater for them and bloody move on.

You say clearly (which I agree with), but it took 27 years to learn for some! It might take that long again.

[Neal]

You say clearly (which I agree with), but it took 27 years to learn for some! It might take that long again.

Take your point but you just have to go on evidence haven't you? Has there been anymore tragedies like Hillsbrough since? No. Now safe standing is being implemented in the UK at a rather large club i'd say it's only a matter of time. So then it becomes a matter of the F.A. and clubs either dragging their heals over something they will inevitably something they'll do in the future or just crack on with it now.

[Mike E]

Take your point but you just have to go on evidence haven't you? Has there been anymore tragedies like Hillsbrough since? No. Now safe standing is being implemented in the UK at a rather large club i'd say it's only a matter of time. So then it becomes a matter of the F.A. and clubs either dragging their heals over something they will inevitably something they'll do in the future or just crack on with it now.

I do hope it will come into fruition sooner rather than later. Though the real lesson learnt ought to be that normal terraces (minus pens) is fine.

Safe-standing, as suggested, is a great compromise though.

[Neal]

I do hope it will come into fruition sooner rather than later. Though the real lesson learnt ought to be that normal terraces (minus pens) is fine.

Safe-standing, as suggested, is a great compromise though.

100%. The safe standing design is just a small adjustment on the layout we already have. With that in mind it surely cant be too dificult a decision to make.