[Archived] Ruben Rochina

[thenodrog]

Laughable. No wonder the LET no longer employ you.

Laughable? Maybe but certainly nowhere near as laughable as the link in yoda's sig to your effort in the Press way back in good ol '79.

[jim mk2]

Wny not address the statement that we "play better with Rochina in the side"? If you think it's true, say so and why. I happen to think it's some sort of joke, or attention-seeking by the author, given that he's more often than not been the worst player on the pitch.

[thenodrog]

edit.

Ha! I read that before you edited.

Obviously I'm not bothered about your sig.... it's why you are still able to post.

Think on.

[Neil Weaver]

I thought our general play in both games was very good whilst Rochina was on the pitch notwithstanding the first half score against Brum.

Hmmm, I'm baffled. So whilst he was on the pitch in those two games it was 0 goals for and 4 against. But you maintain our general play was very good (and yes I was at the Brum game)?

[Mike E]

Wny not address the statement that we "play better with Rochina in the side"? If you think it's true, say so and why. I happen to think it's some sort of joke, or attention-seeking by the author, given that he's more often than not been the worst player on the pitch.

More to the point, why aren't you able to address that (or any) statement without showing yourself to be a bitter old fool?

[RevidgeBlue]

Hmmm, I'm baffled. So whilst he was on the pitch in those two games it was 0 goals for and 4 against. But you maintain our general play was very good (and yes I was at the Brum game)?

We were all over Derby first half, hardly Rochina 's fault that Marrow pulled out a needless handball. Against Birmingham again I thought our approach play was quite good first half albeir we were too tippy tappy when we got in and around their penalty area and yes Rochina was culpable as well in that respect.

It was his first start since the opening day of the season though so it was a big ask for him to be on top form straight away. Only certain players like "the lynchpin of the side" seem to get a hundred and odd tries without any discernible signs of improvement but no questions asked it seems.

[thenodrog]

You cant help taking a cheap shot at Lowe can you Simon? You obviously so need to have a hate figure in the team. Why did you need to transfer your entire irrational loathing of MGP to Lowe? Odd thing is that you are up in arms against anybody doing the same to one of your favourites.

[RevidgeBlue]

It's not a particularly cheap shot at Lowe though is it Gordon, different standards are being applied to different players. If Rochina had had the luxury of 100 unbroken games he 'd probably look a very different player. We'll probably never know now as GB seems to have decided he wants honest grafters over flair playerd which is fair enough as he 's the manager. I think you need a blend myself but as always the proof of the pudding will be in the results.

There's no comparison at all between Lowe and MGP, at least Lowe tries when he's on the pitch. Incidentally MGP doesn't seem to be doing anything at all since he left which might indicate that the personal abuse I received from jim in particular on that topic was as unnecessary then as it it is now on this one.

Finally, I don't see that much difference between my view on Lowe and yours on Rhodes. You said recently you wouldn't have Rhodes in your starting line up, I'd say the same about Lowe. The difference in my view is that Rhodes does his job and Lowe doesn't do what he'smeant to. You'd disagree I suppose but it's a game of opinions at the end of the day.

[USABlue]

I once saw this superb looking teapot-beautifully embossed patterns, shapely spout, but made of chocolate.I would never have bought it myself, but Steve Kean did.

Nowr wrong with that if you serve iced tea like thet do here

[AggyBlue]

The difference in my view is that Rhodes does his job and Lowe doesn't do what he'smeant to.

That must be because you aren't sure why he's in the team.

Try taking the view that he's a Covering Midfielder. He covers for other players that have gone forward. He plugs gaps that appear at the back when defenders get dragged out of position. He does that and he can get himself forward as well because he has great stamina.

Whilst he might not be one of the most technically gifted players we have, he's actually quite good when viewed as a covering midfielder and I can understand why he's one of the first names on the teamsheet.

I first touted this twelve months ago, Lowe for Captain when Dann leaves.

[Parsonblue]

It's not a particularly cheap shot at Lowe though is it Gordon, different standards are being applied to different players. If Rochina had had the luxury of 100 unbroken games he 'd probably look a very different player. We'll probably never know now as GB seems to have decided he wants honest grafters over flair playerd which is fair enough as he 's the manager. I think you need a blend myself but as always the proof of the pudding will be in the results.

There's no comparison at all between Lowe and MGP, at least Lowe tries when he's on the pitch. Incidentally MGP doesn't seem to be doing anything at all since he left which might indicate that the personal abuse I received from jim in particular on that topic was as unnecessary then as it it is now on this one.

Finally, I don't see that much difference between my view on Lowe and yours on Rhodes. You said recently you wouldn't have Rhodes in your starting line up, I'd say the same about Lowe. The difference in my view is that Rhodes does his job and Lowe doesn't do what he'smeant to. You'd disagree I suppose but it's a game of opinions at the end of the day.

I think you'll find that MGP is now back as a regular in the Norway international team which suggests that, once again, the professionals seem to rate his ability and know a player when they see one. Rochina has been here long enough to show if he had the ability to adapt to English football and he simply couldn't. At his age he should have ironed out the major flaws in his game but he hasn't. He remains a show pony and it would seem that Gary is simply the latest manager at Ewood to realise that Rochina's contribution on the pitch is minimal.

[bluebruce]

You cant help taking a cheap shot at Lowe can you Simon? You obviously so need to have a hate figure in the team. Why did you need to transfer your entire irrational loathing of MGP to Lowe? Odd thing is that you are up in arms against anybody doing the same to one of your favourites.

Uhh, you don't have any players you regularly criticise do you not?

I think we have achieved the wrong loan for Ruben, much like we did last season. A few times I've seen it mentioned how his loan last season was a failure by him, another example of him not being good enough. Um, hello, that's LA LIGA he was playing in, and La Liga he will be playing in again. It's a better level than the one we are at. There's no shame in a Championship player not making it there. Indeed it's confusing that he can't get game time here so we loan him to a higher standard and hope he will impress there. He won't. He's going to a better league, with a team who seem to be somewhat crap. Yes he might get games (might), but his team won't be in most of them to any convincing degree. As a forward player, that means he won't see a lot of the ball or get to do much. And when he does, it will be against good defenders. It's a pointless loan IMO, unless literally the only thing we are concerned with is saving wages.

I'd want to see him loaned within the Championship ideally.

[booth]

I've seen Rochina have one good game, maybe two, in all his time with Rovers. He has shown nothing that promises he will be anyhting other than a bit-part player. He has learnt nothing as far as I can see. Lowe is a constant in the side whenever he is fit. The manager always picks him. He's the holding man in midfield, the linchpin. I don't need to wait a few years to see which is the better player.

Playing devils advocate, I remember this being said about Matt Jansen when he first came here and unlike Rochina he was playing regular. He was very skillful but seemed to want to take on teams by himself, unable or unwilling to pass the ball. It was only due to perseverance that he became the player that he did.

[thenodrog]

That must be because you aren't sure why he's in the team.

Try taking the view that he's a Covering Midfielder. He covers for other players that have gone forward. He plugs gaps that appear at the back when defenders get dragged out of position. He does that and he can get himself forward as well because he has great stamina.

Whilst he might not be one of the most technically gifted players we have, he's actually quite good when viewed as a covering midfielder and I can understand why he's one of the first names on the teamsheet.

I first touted this twelve months ago, Lowe for Captain when Dann leaves.

I'm not sure he's captain material but then I'm not close enough to the squad.

However Simon points out that he's played 100 unbroken games, like his other hate figure MGP inherent fitness and durabilty is a huge plus for any club paying big wages. As I've said before divide dunny's minutes on the pitch over the years by his remuneration and he'd likely put the earnings of Lionel Messi in the shade! If we had a squad of Dunns we'd have to rely on the ball boys to get 11 on the pitch most weeks!

btw Simon a point in Rhodes's favour he too seems blessed with durability. He's rarely injured unless the politics of Scottish football demand it. One thing is for sure his hamstrings are certainly in no danger.

[thenodrog]

Playing devils advocate, I remember this being said about Matt Jansen when he first came here and unlike Rochina he was playing regular. He was very skillful but seemed to want to take on teams by himself, unable or unwilling to pass the ball. It was only due to perseverance that he became the player that he did.

Bentley was another slow starter.

[jim mk2]

Playing devils advocate, I remember this being said about Matt Jansen when he first came here and unlike Rochina he was playing regular. He was very skillful but seemed to want to take on teams by himself, unable or unwilling to pass the ball. It was only due to perseverance that he became the player that he did.

Jansen was a grammar school lad, intelligent (though not wearing a motorcycle helmet wasn't intelligent), willing to learn. Now I don't know Rochina personally and cannot vouch for his IQ but he doesn't seem to have learnt anything. Rochina is no better than the day he arrived at the club. Coaches watch him in training every day and have presumably come to the conclusion that he has done nothing to warrant an extended run in the team.

[FGS5635]

What's Rochina's best position?

I'd say striker, but I have no way of backing it up as he's not played there and its just personal opinion

[Stuart]

That must be because you aren't sure why he's in the team.

Try taking the view that he's a Covering Midfielder. He covers for other players that have gone forward. He plugs gaps that appear at the back when defenders get dragged out of position. He does that and he can get himself forward as well because he has great stamina.

Whilst he might not be one of the most technically gifted players we have, he's actually quite good when viewed as a covering midfielder and I can understand why he's one of the first names on the teamsheet.

I first touted this twelve months ago, Lowe for Captain when Dann leaves.

Which can be distilled down to: "He's got a good engine".

We have no-one who is captain material (excluding Robinson possibly). Lowe would be a candidate for Bowyer simply because he's an ever-present.

[yoda]

What's Rochina's best position?

some where else

[Neil Weaver]

We were all over Derby first half, hardly Rochina 's fault that Marrow pulled out a needless handball. Against Birmingham again I thought our approach play was quite good first half albeir we were too tippy tappy when we got in and around their penalty area and yes Rochina was culpable as well in that respect.

It was his first start since the opening day of the season though so it was a big ask for him to be on top form straight away. Only certain players like "the lynchpin of the side" seem to get a hundred and odd tries without any discernible signs of improvement but no questions asked it seems.

So let's make sure I'm understanding this correctly. Your view that 'we play much better with him in the side' is based on two games where he was subbed this season (so about 100 mins)? And during that time we conceded 4 and scored 0. As you say it's a game of opinions and I know which opinion has more and better evidence.

[Amo]

Rochina is almost certainly a frustrating player when he ball-hogs and acts too casual in possession, but on the other hand he's prone to moments of peerless quality, the likes of which belongs to the numinous. For a cautious manager like Bowyer or the anti-football Appleton, such a mercurial talent is too much of a gamble to play on a regular basis, if at all, and they don't know how to solve a problem like Rochina other than sending him home. Ruben showed last season that when given a chance he can deliver the goods. Show pony or no, 5 goals and 3 assists in 11 starts was a decent return last season. It's true that Ruben has made little impression since returning from injury, but how many games has he actually played? I have to agree with Revidge that it's a sad indictment how no-frills spoilers like Lowe & Williamson are ever-present in the team despite their obvious shortcomings whereas genuinely talented footballers are shown the door.

[Al]

Rochina is almost certainly a frustrating player when he ball-hogs and acts too casual in possession, but on the other hand he's prone to moments of peerless quality, the likes of which belongs to the numinous. For a cautious manager like Bowyer or the anti-football Appleton, such a mercurial talent is too much of a gamble to play on a regular basis, if at all, and they don't know how to solve a problem like Rochina other than sending him home. Ruben showed last season that when given a chance he can deliver the goods. Show pony or no, 5 goals and 3 assists in 11 starts was a decent return last season. It's true that Ruben has made little impression since returning from injury, but how many games has he actually played? I have to agree with Revidge that it's a sad indictment how no-frills spoilers like Lowe & Williamson are ever-present in the team despite their obvious shortcomings whereas genuinely talented footballers are shown the door.

A really sensible post and one I agree with. It's easy to be critical but only once in a while you get the chance to mould a player with that much talent. I know he has been here for a while but he has never had a manager who believed in him and believed in flair. You will never win anything with a team of honest triers. You need that little bit extra that a player like Rochina can provide.

[onlyonejackwalker]

Talent comes in many forms. Rochina has the dribbling down blind alleys bit sorted, but sadly that's about it. There's nothing talented about giving the ball away and if flair is smashing it time after time into the top row then he is certainly a flair player as well.

[thenodrog]

Rochina is almost certainly a frustrating player when he ball-hogs and acts too casual in possession, but on the other hand he's prone to moments of peerless quality, the likes of which belongs to the numinous. For a cautious manager like Bowyer or the anti-football Appleton, such a mercurial talent is too much of a gamble to play on a regular basis, if at all, and they don't know how to solve a problem like Rochina other than sending him home. Ruben showed last season that when given a chance he can deliver the goods. Show pony or no, 5 goals and 3 assists in 11 starts was a decent return last season. It's true that Ruben has made little impression since returning from injury, but how many games has he actually played? I have to agree with Revidge that it's a sad indictment how no-frills spoilers like Lowe & Williamson are ever-present in the team despite their obvious shortcomings whereas genuinely talented footballers are shown the door.

Every bricklayer need a hod carrier.

[RevidgeBlue]

If you could go back to summer and pick from having Rochina or Dave Jones for the season who'd you go for?

.

Alternatively if we had Dave Jones in midfield instead of JLo how much better would we be?

Much better imo.

On the point about Burnley not having flair players, they do have two reasonably prolific goalscorers which makes a lot of difference.