[Archived] Venkys

[Paul]

Ok, so what is the truth? How close are we to Administration? Fans of other clubs think everything at Rovers is rosy and everything is on an even keel now.

How close to Administration? Very simple the only thing keeping the club afloat financially is Venkys. That is very, very close.

People ask what the solution is? Well for me the answer is and will always be "Raos Out." Until they have gone, and I believe they will eventually, the healing process cannot begin.

Currently survival without the Raos would be nigh on impossible as there are no potential new backers available. Equally the Raos cannot get out until the club returns to some form of normality. Something will happen, just what remains to be seen.

The club remains as chaotic and rudderless as ever. Yes things are much better on the pitch but that is it. Nothing else has changed. For the moment the only realistic action is to enjoy the football, support the team and wait for these four despicable individuals to leave the club for good.

[Parsonblue]

The problem Paul is that once these despicable individuals leave, and I totally agree with your assessment of them, we could well be locking the gates of Ewood Park for good. As I've said before I think we are now in the classic Catch-22 with the Rao family. None of us want them here and yet without their money we might not have a club to support. As a club we exist at their whim. It's a sad state of affairs and all supporters can do is, as you say, enjoy the football on the day.

[thenodrog]

Brazil this summer will be the likeliest place to hawk the club. All the world's collection of classless nouveau riche big hitters of poor breeding will be there and no doubt getting carried away with the glitz and glamour of it all. I expect Balaji will be throwing quite a few parties .... unfortunately he'll no doubt put the Fat Controller in control of the guest list!

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Jack Walker and John Williams (not originally but surely was after a decade) were supporters. So was Mr Fox

In deed Walker and Fox were supporters. Walker employed Williams to run the club as a business so was not a supporter. Over time he gained a feeling for the club and its supporters.

Fox did some unpopular things for this club to keep it alive in the 80s, but he loved the club and did them for the best intentions.

Venkys will Never love this club. All there unpopular decisions have been made for two sets of people benefit, Kentaro's crew and themselves.

[47er]

People have tried to talk to Venkys about buying the Club and have received no encouragement. That's a fact isn't it?

You never know who would be interested until a sale is definitely on.

2 Ians were talking about forming a consortium weren't they? People want to own a football club for all sorts of reasons, they don't necessarily want to make money. If they did there are much easier ways of doing it.

If Rovers were for sale someone would buy, no question about it.

Same argument crops up everytime we want to change the manager "Who would want the job?" etc.

Somebody always does. Every club has a manager, every club is owned by someone and every club gets saved from bankruptcy one way or another.Think about it, how many clubs have disappeared in the last 50 years? Accy yes but now they're back.

Way too much pessimism on here.

[perthblue02]

People have tried to talk to Venkys about buying the Club and have received no encouragement. That's a fact isn't it?

You never know who would be interested until a sale is definitely on.

2 Ians were talking about forming a consortium weren't they? People want to own a football club for all sorts of reasons, they don't necessarily want to make money. If they did there are much easier ways of doing it.

If Rovers were for sale someone would buy, no question about it.

Same argument crops up everytime we want to change the manager "Who would want the job?" etc.

Somebody always does. Every club has a manager, every club is owned by someone and every club gets saved from bankruptcy one way or another.Think about it, how many clubs have disappeared in the last 50 years? Accy yes but now they're back.

Way too much pessimism on here.

Maybe the people who have tried to approach them about buying would want to do things properly pre and during a sale, due dillegence etc, and that's why they have been rebuffed , but perhaps they would be interested in selling it to somebody who is not to bothered about going over the books and the paperwork of the last three and a quarter years. Which could be worse than the Loons in Pune owning it.

Two possible reasons for this, 1 They were completely duped and do not want to look even more foolish than they do already, remember pride is a big thing in India , or

2 One or more of the family members knew exactly what "plan" they were getting into along with just like family members and their off shore friends.

Of course there is a third and fourth option and perhaps many more, that they have fallen in love with Blackburn Rovers and will back it to the death or There is a unseen personal income stream to owning Blackburn Rovers that may benefit at least one family member who maybe reluctant to sell.

If I was a betting man I would go for two and four

[Parsonblue]

People have tried to talk to Venkys about buying the Club and have received no encouragement. That's a fact isn't it?

You never know who would be interested until a sale is definitely on.

2 Ians were talking about forming a consortium weren't they? People want to own a football club for all sorts of reasons, they don't necessarily want to make money. If they did there are much easier ways of doing it.

If Rovers were for sale someone would buy, no question about it.

How long did it take the Walker Trust to sell the club and when they eventually found a buyer look what happened. Who in their right mind wants to buy a club with £54 million of debt attached to it and a club that is losing money at an alarming rate. We struggled to find a buyer when we were well run. We are a small town club that has little attractiveness in terms of commercial development. Portsmouth always found a buyer and the new owner always stripped a little bit more of the club away until they were left in their present state.

[47er]

False comparison. When the misnamed Walker Trust wanted to sell we were a viable Premier League Club and worth something.and don't forget that Venkys were not the only party interested in buying us.That is often overlooked. They were however the ones recommended by you know who.

Now we are no longer a viable Premier League club and you know that no-one will be interested in taking over 54M of debt and Venkys know it too.

That does not mean we will never get new owners. Push will come to shove at some point.

[thenodrog]

When 'push comes to shove' 47er on our 60m+ of debt it will almost certainly be the end of BRFC. Only promotion to the Prem will offset that scenario imo. And that would entail aiming no higher than bottom place and being the very model of parsimony.

[Ozz]

Thanks for the reply Ozz, I appreciate the time you took to answer my questions. Like TBTF, I'm not convinced we can survive without someone with very deep pockets to cover the wage bill let alone the running costs of Ewood Park, the Senior Training Ground and the Academy.

There are clearly going to be some big issues to overcome, solving the massive operating loss is the biggest one. The club do appear to be dealing with this now though, with the disposal of heavy wage earners and the general ongoing wage reduction program which recognises this. Speculation, but could this be in preparation to dispose of the club?

Pipe dreams.

Two years ago yes. The Trust are currently finalising a Business Plan to deal with the situation where the club is put on the market, for when ownership (whether full or part) becomes an option. In my opinion this document would not look out of place in a Blue Chip company boardroom, and is the result of a lot of graft in the background to allow us to be taken as a serious or preferred bidder when the time comes. We currently have around 1,300 paid up members, all of whom have put their money into the Trust to take it from idle post match chat in the pub to something real, serious and substantial with a legal structure and a government backed support network.

[47er]

When 'push comes to shove' 47er on our 60m+ of debt it will almost certainly be the end of BRFC. Only promotion to the Prem will offset that scenario imo. And that would entail aiming no higher than bottom place and being the very model of parsimony.

Enormous debt did not wipe out Rangers, did not destroy Portsmouth and has not destroyed Bolton. Tell me again, how many English clubs have ceased to exist in the last 50 years?

[yoda]

Enormous debt did not wipe out Rangers, did not destroy Portsmouth and has not destroyed Bolton. Tell me again, how many English clubs have ceased to exist in the last 50 years?

How many UK clubs had a combination of Raos, kean and Voldermort in charge

[Parsonblue]

Enormous debt did not wipe out Rangers, did not destroy Portsmouth and has not destroyed Bolton. Tell me again, how many English clubs have ceased to exist in the last 50 years?

Since the war Accrington Stanley, Aldershot, Bradford Park Avenue, Darlington, Gateshead, Halifax Town, Maidstone United, New Brighton and Newport County have all become defunct and have had to be reformed and start again in lower non-League circles. Of those only Stanley, Aldershot and Newport have returned to the Football League and Aldershot are now back in the Conference. Don't be fooled into thinking that clubs always survive debt - they don't.

[rovers11]

Since the war Accrington Stanley, Aldershot, Bradford Park Avenue, Darlington, Gateshead, Halifax Town, Maidstone United, New Brighton and Newport County have all become defunct and have had to be reformed and start again in lower non-League circles. Of those only Stanley, Aldershot and Newport have returned to the Football League and Aldershot are now back in the Conference. Don't be fooled into thinking that clubs always survive debt - they don't.

With all due respect, those teams are hardly footballing power houses. The teams with the biggest debts over the last few years have been Leeds and Portsmouth. They are still up and running. There are too many people that care about Rovers to let it die, it won't happen. Look at Portmouth`s debt but they were saved as too many people care about them to let them die. If the worst came to the worst, a supporters trust could rescue Rovers from extinction.

That is the absolute worst case scenario but I actually think Venkys are here for the long term. They invested in the summer, have sanctioned two permanent signings in January and have told GB they he can bring in loan signings with the wages freed up from some of our players going out on loan. They have also said Rhodes is not for sale and not long ago invested in the upgrading of the academy.

If they were intending on pulling out in the summer surely they'd want to recoup every bit of money they can in January. They'd sell Rhodes, they wouldn't sanction any permanent signings and wouldn't allow any of the wages freed up to be used to bring in new players.

The model going forward is clearly trim the wage bill and get rid of high earners who offer nothing to the team and bring in cheap, young players on low wages with a high sell on value.

[perthblue02]

The model going forward is clearly trim the wage bill and get rid of high earners who offer nothing to the team and bring in cheap, young players on low wages with a high sell on value.

Add into that loan players and you have Jerome's Desai's recipe for European football in 5 seasons ( excited only 1.5 to go )and a top 6 premier league finish as spoken about a couple of weeks after takeover..

[stanhillrover]

For me it is less about the past three years and more about the next three years and beyond that. I'm not saying for one minute we should forgive or forget what has gone on, because that can never happen, but we should spend more time thinking about how we can be best positioned going forward rather than dwelling on past decisions. Ultimately for the last 12 months things have taken a definite turn for the better. Whether that is down to Venkys or someone else we don't know. What we do know is that they have allowed Bowyer to get on with his job, backed him with money, sidelined Singh, stopped with the ridiculous statements, and whilst attempting to reduce the ridiculous wage bill have allowed us to remain competitive with signings like Cairney, Gestede and retaining Rhodes.

As much as I would love to believe in an idyllic world where Venkys depart and some genuine people from Blackburn come along and solve all the problems that have built up, maintain us as a Championship club, sort out the debt situation, avoid administration, enable us to remain competitive on gates of 13,000 a week with low ticket prices etc. I'm afraid anyone who thinks that is going to happen is living in cloud cuckoo land. Without Venky's financial commitment we would nosedive. I for one am enjoying watching this young team play this season. Ultimately we wouldn't have the likes of Rhodes at the club without their backing.

This might all change again. Come the end of the season assuming we aren't promoted Venkys might change their minds and say 'enough is enough'. But so far going off the last 3 and a half years there is no indication they have ever had any intention of selling the club. One of the only things they have been consistent with is saying they are going nowhere and have rebuffed all offers from potential buyers. I thought that they would pull out with relegation or last season when the 'gamble' failed. But they have stuck at it and things have improved, however slightly.

No. I'm afraid to say that for the time being at the very least, we need Venkys. I can understand people maybe not liking that fact but it is our best and possibly only chance of getting back up in the near future. We are not far away at present which is remarkable when you consider the upheaval and turnover in players we have had. We need to hope that they continue to back Bowyer in the summer whatever happens this season.

[John]

It's impossible to second guess the Rao family - I actually think they still don't fully understand what is going on.

[ABBEY]

What happened with the owd hag bint going to court ?

[Paul]

The problem Paul is that once these despicable individuals leave, and I totally agree with your assessment of them, we could well be locking the gates of Ewood Park for good.  As I've said before I think we are now in the classic Catch-22 with the Rao family.  None of us want them here and yet without their money we might not have a club to support.  As a club we exist at their whim.  It's a sad state of affairs and all supporters can do is, as you say, enjoy the football on the day.

You are quite right it is Catch 22 with the only apparent solutions to be either promotion followed by another relegation or a white knight. Contrary to many I do believe the Trust will have an important role to play if the White Knight arrives. Simply put it won't all be about money - gaining the goodwill and trust of the fanbase will be hugely important.

As for promotion and relegation I think one season in the PL is worth at least £55m plus £60m of parachute payments from this season onward. Surely that would sort the finances to a large degree?

[thenodrog]

You are quite right it is Catch 22 with the only apparent solutions to be either promotion followed by another relegation or a white knight. Contrary to many I do believe the Trust will have an important role to play if the White Knight arrives. Simply put it won't all be about money - gaining the goodwill and trust of the fanbase will be hugely important.

As for promotion and relegation I think one season in the PL is worth at least £55m plus £60m of parachute payments from this season onward. Surely that would sort the finances to a large degree?

Only if we had a wage structure like Blackpool's when they went up. Pitifully small on the Prem scale but obviously a King's ransom for everybody else.

[Mike E]

I'm not a particularly 'involved' member of the trust, but should we be put up for sale I reckon they'd be a good option.

Not in the least because fans would have 'some' say in the club's running, they appear likely to have the 2 Ians' consortium on board and I reckon you'd get fan-led businesses clamouring to sponsor us again.

Pipe dream? Yes, but it's a very nice one.

[TBTF]

There are clearly going to be some big issues to overcome, solving the massive operating loss is the biggest one. The club do appear to be dealing with this now though, with the disposal of heavy wage earners and the general ongoing wage reduction program which recognises this. Speculation, but could this be in preparation to dispose of the club?

Two years ago yes. The Trust are currently finalising a Business Plan to deal with the situation where the club is put on the market, for when ownership (whether full or part) becomes an option. In my opinion this document would not look out of place in a Blue Chip company boardroom, and is the result of a lot of graft in the background to allow us to be taken as a serious or preferred bidder when the time comes. We currently have around 1,300 paid up members, all of whom have put their money into the Trust to take it from idle post match chat in the pub to something real, serious and substantial with a legal structure and a government backed support network.

Dont get me wrong Ozz. I see Rovers fan involvement in the next ownership in some shape or form.I think what the Trust have done is to create the belief that Clubs like ours are community clubs that have to involve the fans in some way.That in itself is a massive achievement for the Trust

My sceptcism is that the Trust will never have enough cash to be a preferred bidder.It costs substantial millions to run clubs these days and even raising a couple of million would be an enormous achievement for the Trust.The sobering thought is that will be a drop in the ocean with the numbers we are looking at.

Venkys have taken this Club to the precipice by their own actions (and Shebby's) and we are now at their mercy.Nobody can buy it with the debt its got because under FFP you couldnt do anything with it.ie invest

I only see them having to give it away and write off millions and millions.Only then can i see a role for the Trust or someone local by which time we will be so far down the Sh1tter that we will be Conference fodder

[Al]

False comparison. When the misnamed Walker Trust wanted to sell we were a viable Premier League Club and worth something.and don't forget that Venkys were not the only party interested in buying us.That is often overlooked. They were however the ones recommended by you know who.

Now we are no longer a viable Premier League club and you know that no-one will be interested in taking over 54M of debt and Venkys know it too.

That does not mean we will never get new owners. Push will come to shove at some point.

Obviously if anyone is to "buy" the club the Roas will have to forgive their portion of the debt. Might be worthwhile to stop bleeding further. Then the new owners would have a chance of running the club.

[West Yorks Rover]

You are quite right it is Catch 22 with the only apparent solutions to be either promotion followed by another relegation or a white knight. Contrary to many I do believe the Trust will have an important role to play if the White Knight arrives. Simply put it won't all be about money - gaining the goodwill and trust of the fanbase will be hugely important.

As for promotion and relegation I think one season in the PL is worth at least £55m plus £60m of parachute payments from this season onward. Surely that would sort the finances to a large degree?

Promotion would also bring a massive fine for breaching FFP £20m/30m who knows.

The clubs who have stayed within the agreed budget will no doubt be looking forward to a nice 'windfall' from

the likes of QPR maybe Leics or even us.

However I can't see them handing over huge amounts of money like that, without a day or two in court.

What happened with the owd hag bint going to court ?

Probably whoever fills the biggest 'brown envelope' gets the land Abbs !

[47er]

Since the war Accrington Stanley, Aldershot, Bradford Park Avenue, Darlington, Gateshead, Halifax Town, Maidstone United, New Brighton and Newport County have all become defunct and have had to be reformed and start again in lower non-League circles. Of those only Stanley, Aldershot and Newport have returned to the Football League and Aldershot are now back in the Conference. Don't be fooled into thinking that clubs always survive debt - they don't.

No big names in that lot is there? Not even middling names.