[Archived] Hillsborough 96

[den]

Your right Den,the deaths weren't inevitable but I wouldn't like to point the finger of blame at anyone party.

It was a tragedy that will never be forgotten and hopefully never witnessed again.

I know what you mean SG. It really was a tragedy, but blame has to be designated. It's not as though it was accidental or unforseeable because there had been crushing there previously.

[47er]

Den,have you seen footage of the Liverpool fans arriving late outside the turnstiles?...the crush outside was so bad the decision was taken to open the gates to relieve this problem.

How else could the Police have handled this situation?

I cannot stand this blame culture for what was a series of seperate events that culminated in this tragedy.

The blame culture was within the police force Garners, they blamed the fans and embarked on a vicious, lying campaign which lasted years and was, in part, conducted theough The Sun. Justice is coming at long last thanks to the Liverpool fans who never gave up on it.

So I can't stand the blame culture either, let's not blame the fans eh?

Theno, by singling out one individual, Duckinfield, I'm worrying that you think there is one rotten apple in the barrel. Not so, West Yorks police are notorious, it takes more than one man to carry out a conspiracy of that dimension for so long. He didn't tell every lowly PC what to put in his statement for instance.

And Duckinfield didn't just get it wrong, he made it up.

[AllRoverAsia]

I found this an interesting and thought provoking read:

https://thegreatcritique.wordpress.com/2013/04/21/hillsborough-correct-historical-context/

Thank God that there were no fences at Bradford.

[Gav]

£96,000 is peanuts to Stevie Me, probably about a weeks wages, but he doesn't have to donate that amount of cash, so all credit to him.

Plenty of footballers will have given large amounts of money to charity, most anonymously, so lets not kid ourselves that Gerard is some kind of ‘Good egg’.

As for Hillsborough and the police, absolutely disgusting whats come out in the investigation, Duckenfield and his mates should go to jail, simple, as that. If Joe public lied and destroyed evidence we’d have the bloody key thrown away. No doubt that hundreds of Liverpool fans turned up ticketless, and no doubt about it thousands turned up @#/?, but that doesn’t get the police off the hook, they’re paid to police events like Hillsborough and they failed on all counts then lied and destroyed evidence, DISGUSTING, but as football fans we shouldn’t be surprised, we’ve been treated like animals for years by Police across the land and it still goes on now.

I firmly believe this sort of police behaviour all stems from the miners’ strike when Thatcher gave South Yorkshire police the power to do what the hell they wanted as long as they destroyed the miners along the way, rotten to the core that lot.

[riverside returns]

When apportioning blame it is important to understand all points and it does appear that this inquest is slowly but surely doing just that.

We as innocent bystanders can look at this with that greatest of all qualities, hindsight, but those there on the day could not and did not have that option.

What if's are the staple diet of HSE people and that is what is making the world safer however it is in danger of making the world of football very sterile.

Hopefully following the expose of duckinfield, others who bear some portion of blame will be as candid and honest in their appreciation and explanation. In this I include both senior police officers although the cover up has no real part to play and should be sub judice and saved for separate criminal cases.

This inquest is about what happened , why and what could have been done differently to prevent. None of it brings even one of the dead back to life but does give some closure.

[Baz]

Theres was a systematic cover up of facts, destroying of evidence to protect the police. There was a second police force brought in to help achieve that, so the decisions where made very high up.

Makes you wonder why Thatchers family have refused to release her personal papers for the inquest.

It's taken Duckenfield 26 years to admit lying and apologise, but even that apology is behind a veil of subjectivity.

[thenodrog]

I know what you mean SG. It really was a tragedy, but blame has to be designated. It's not as though it was accidental or unforseeable because there had been crushing there previously.

In that case how about apportioning some of the blame on the decision to put up football fencing? That was taken after numerous hooligan incidents and pitch invasions in the 70's and was designed to prevent the sort of unsavoury and violent incidents that had become commonplace by then. The italians had deep moats around their pitches and Ken Bates at Chelsea renowned for it's hooligan element even wanted the fences to be electrified. It was effectively that decision designed to save lives that trapped the poor blighters at the front.

Hey this is a new angle! Just read on and Gav and Baz are now laying the blame squarely at the feet of Margaret Thatcher!

I guess they would do that though wouldn't they?

[Gav]

In that case how about apportioning some of the blame on the decision to put up football fencing? That was taken after numerous hooligan incidents and pitch invasions in the 70's and was designed to prevent the sort of unsavoury and violent incidents that had become commonplace by then. The italians had deep moats around their pitches and Ken Bates at Chelsea renowned for it's hooligan element even wanted the fences to be electrified. It was effectively that decision designed to save lives that trapped the poor blighters at the front.

Hey this is a new angle! Just read on and Gav and Baz are now laying the blame squarely at the feet of Margaret Thatcher!

I guess they would do that though wouldn't they?

This disaster had nothing to do with hooligansm and fences, or moats. This has everything to do with terrible decision making by SouthYorkshire police and a coverup that went right to the top of the chain.

As for Thatcher, she created a culture in the police force where they all believed they could get away with murder, whatever they wanted, and they did during the miners strike and did for years over hillsborough.

Finally they're being held accountable and I'd jail the lot of them.

[ABBEY]

At the end of the day thatchers police were evil brutal scum

[Baz]

From a private note from MT to Douglas Hird:

"made it clear that she did not want to give the government's full backing to Lord Taylor's criticisms, only to the way in which he had conducted his inquiry and made recommendations for action.

She wrote: "What do we mean by 'welcoming the broad thrust of the report'? The broad thrust is devastating criticism of the police. Is that for us to welcome? Surely we welcome the thoroughness of the report and its recommendations - M.T."

And thats one of the few notes that her family agreed to be published.

[Gav]

From a private note from MT to Douglas Hird:

"made it clear that she did not want to give the government's full backing to Lord Taylor's criticisms, only to the way in which he had conducted his inquiry and made recommendations for action.

She wrote: "What do we mean by 'welcoming the broad thrust of the report'? The broad thrust is devastating criticism of the police. Is that for us to welcome? Surely we welcome the thoroughness of the report and its recommendations - M.T."

And thats one of the few notes that her family agreed to be published.

Anyone who thinks Thatcher and her government had no hand in this has there heads firmly inserted in there arses!

It's not even in dispute, it's fact.

[K-Hod]

Given what else has been covered up in recent times, I'm amazed there's any doubt that it's even a possibility tbh.

Rotten to the core.

[speeeeeeedie]

In line with today's anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster The Guardian published a really good article on the Bradford fire;

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/apr/15/bradford-fire-martin-fletcher-stafford-heginbotham?CMP=EMCFTBEML853

Although no direct accusations are made, it questions the party line that the fire was caused by a cigarette or such burning rubbish that had accumulated under the stand.

[den]

That's really interesting. Thanks for posting it. I'd never heard of these views before, but maybe a public inquiry is appropriate. Even after 30 years, the truth should be known.

[ABBEY]

Just like the heysel truth should be

[rigger]

Just like the heysel truth should be

It has always amazed me how Hillsborough is always dragged up, with never a mention of Heysel.

[Amo]

It has always amazed me how Hillsborough is always dragged up, with never a mention of Heysel.

I feel the same way about the Holocaust and the Holodomor, but there you go.

[rigger]

I feel the same way about the Holocaust and the Holodomor, but there you go.

But I cannot see their relevance to this topic

[Baz]

It has always amazed me how Hillsborough is always dragged up, with never a mention of Heysel.

People where prosecuted after Heysel.

[Hasta]

Just like the heysel truth should be

Do we not already know the Heysel truth?