[Archived] The Rao's

[Stuart]

The debt isnt levied against the club.

But thats not to say that the money invested by Venkys London ltd by Venkys india isnt borrowed. Its also worthwhile pointing out that until the day the sell us any debt they have in UK, India or elsewhere couldnt be levied back against the club.

This point has been debated back and forth on this mb over the last 2 years or so, and appears to have been shelved without ever being confirmed one way or the other.

Does anyone have anything definitive (i.e. factual rather than opinion) that they can post on the matter? Is it a fact that Venkys CANNOT secure loans from their Indian back against Rovers or its assets? Is it also a fact that Venkys cannot move debt around their company, at will, such that, when they do finally decide to pull stumps, Rovers will not have any Venkys-borrowed debt attached to it?

[broadsword]

So this is their own capital then? Because from what I remember the BoI won't let an Indian company borrow against foreign assets. Unless of course they are borrowing against assets in India, pumping the money into VLL and then VLL is lending BRFC Ltd the cash.

[Leonard Venkhater]

So Kamy lets us all know the Rao's are putting up again, at least that's a good thing is it not, and he we are again someone has to look on the @#/? side and its- liquidation and the end. I know you have to put views across of impending doom so no beef there, but hey why not say something like -- fair play putting up the cash again for another go. ahh too optimistic me.

We are in a "non trust" situation. Don't locate that in anyone, who posts here.

I am also weary of all the negativity surrounding my club, but this squarely down to all that the Venky's have done /allowed to be done. Add the complete absence of an open, clear message about future plans to deal with the financial consequences of their own disastrous tenure and It is hard to accept anything is as it seems or as we would want it to be.

[PLJPB]

The last published accounts to 30/06/13 showed a bank overdraft from state bank of india of £14m not secured over any assets but with the bank reserving the right to take security at any point in their future. So NOT secured against Indian assets.

There was another £36m owed to VLL with no indication of security or otherwise.

My take is that the bank and VLL can demand repayment at any time.

It may well be that any VLL borrowings are secured against Indian assets but if the bank came calling then the Rao's could choose whether to use these Indian assets or the assets of brfc to pay basvk the debt.

The key is that wee are totally in their hands but I wholeheartedly agree that them putting their own cash into VLL can only be good news from a financial viewpoint.

[darrenrover]

The last published accounts to 30/06/13 showed a bank overdraft from state bank of india of £14m not secured over any assets but with the bank reserving the right to take security at any point in their future. So NOT secured against Indian assets.

There was another £36m owed to VLL with no indication of security or otherwise.

My take is that the bank and VLL can demand repayment at any time.

It may well be that any VLL borrowings are secured against Indian assets but if the bank came calling then the Rao's could choose whether to use these Indian assets or the assets of brfc to pay basvk the debt.

The key is that wee are totally in their hands but I wholeheartedly agree that them putting their own cash into VLL can only be good news from a financial viewpoint.

I would agree that this is the likely set up.

We've been totally in their hands since they allowed Kean and co and Shebby run amok with the cheque book. They clearly hadn't heard of counter signatures on cheques.

[EgyptianPete]

Venky Sin Drone strikes again

No

We are in a "non trust" situation. Don't locate that in anyone, who posts here.

I am also weary of all the negativity surrounding my club, but this squarely down to all that the Venky's have done /allowed to be done. Add the complete absence of an open, clear message about future plans to deal with the financial consequences of their own disastrous tenure and It is hard to accept anything is as it seems or as we would want it to be.

Fair point

[McClarky]

If we owe money to VLL and they demand payment and we can't pay it then, irrespective of whether the loan is secured, we could be forced into administration. VLL would have to reach a settlement then though which would probably mean them losing a lot of money so doubt they'll rush into doing that.

[IbizaRover]

If we owe money to VLL and they demand payment and we can't pay it then, irrespective of whether the loan is secured, we could be forced into administration. VLL would have to reach a settlement then though which would probably mean them losing a lot of money so doubt they'll rush into doing that.

Im hoping that they have seen the progress this season and the real possibility of us going straight up next season and are financing us to get around FFP so we have no embargos. Thats my thoughts

[McClarky]

Im hoping that they have seen the progress this season and the real possibility of us going straight up next season and are financing us to get around FFP so we have no embargos. Thats my thoughts

Maybe you can rethink when the drugs wear off, if they ever do in Ibiza.

[patrickvalery]

When you consider the money Cardiff just raked in for finishing bottom of the PL, I can understand why venkys might still fancy sticking around. Its like when you're in a casino and hemorrhaging money. You should probably cut your losses and head home. But at the same time one lucky roll of the dice and you're back on an even keel again.

If we ever manage to dine at the top table again I expect the indians to call it a day. Until then, the way I see it, the only way for them to get their money back is to get the club promoted and take the windfall. Selling isnt an option as we're worth sod all and administration means they lose even more.

[IbizaRover]

Maybe you can rethink when the drugs wear off, if they ever do in Ibiza.

So because I have the words Ibiza in my username you automatically assume I take drugs? tuttut!! I think you will find that more people would agree with my comment and can actually see the progress thats been made.

[broadsword]

I think the fact of the matter is because most of the transactions are being done in India, no-one really knows what the crack is. No-one knows what their plans are.

[Leonard Venkhater]

I think the fact of the matter is because most of the transactions are being done in India, no-one really knows what the crack is. No-one knows what their plans are.

In all my career nothing good was going on, whenever people applied secrecy...

[Rover_Shaun]

So because I have the words Ibiza in my username you automatically assume I take drugs? tuttut!! I think you will find that more people would agree with my comment and can actually see the progress thats been made.

Only if you nod your head whilst looking in a hall of mirrors.

The handcart is still heading to hell

[tomphil]

In all my career nothing good was going on, whenever people applied secrecy...

Spot on. It's not like at a lot of clubs where things don't get put in the public domain as no ones really bothered or suspicious but a lot of the info is there if people do look. No this thing has been cloak and dagger from the very beginning.

[rog of the rovers]

My views reading between the lines are that Venkys are happy to keep things ticking over for the time being, whilst staying open to the possibility of a 'get out' in the future.

That said, financially, they need to be in the Premier League to start recouping any sizeable money.

The best case scenario for all involved, is to keep the budget tight but fair this season, hope for promotion, then once back in the Premier League look to consolidate for 2-3 seasons and then look to sell.

The money in the Premier League is going up and up (see Cardiff's £62m for finishing in 20th) and this carrat is surely the reason Venkys are still interested in owning a football club.

Ironically I think things like the Queen's visit will have helped the club in the short term, as the brothers will no doubt have enjoyed the secondary priviliges and perks of owning a football club.

To caveat all this, I do think the window of interest from Venkys is short. A 10 year stay in the Championship could be the catastrophic on many levels, but lets cross that bridge when we come to it.

[ABBEY]

So because I have the words Ibiza in my username you automatically assume I take drugs? tuttut!! I think you will find that more people would agree with my comment and can actually see the progress thats been made.

Progress would be 5th upwards .. In the prem.

I don't care if they put 1p or £10000000000000000 in . I won't forgive , forget or pat them on there idiotic backs .

VENKYS OUT!!

My views reading between the lines are that Venkys are happy to keep things ticking over for the time being, whilst staying open to the possibility of a 'get out' in the future.

That said, financially, they need to be in the Premier League to start recouping any sizeable money.

The best case scenario for all involved, is to keep the budget tight but fair this season, hope for promotion, then once back in the Premier League look to consolidate for 2-3 seasons and then look to sell.

The money in the Premier League is going up and up (see Cardiff's £62m for finishing in 20th) and this carrat is surely the reason Venkys are still interested in owning a football club.

Ironically I think things like the Queen's visit will have helped the club in the short term, as the brothers will no doubt have enjoyed the secondary priviliges and perks of owning a football club.

To caveat all this, I do think the window of interest from Venkys is short. A 10 year stay in the Championship could be the catastrophic on many levels, but lets cross that bridge when we come to it.

There is NO chance of top flight football under venkys . As long as they get publicity either negative or by the queen then they are happy . It's all about TEAM VENKY and NOTHING else .

[TBTF]

My views reading between the lines are that Venkys are happy to keep things ticking over for the time being, whilst staying open to the possibility of a 'get out' in the future.

That said, financially, they need to be in the Premier League to start recouping any sizeable money.

The best case scenario for all involved, is to keep the budget tight but fair this season, hope for promotion, then once back in the Premier League look to consolidate for 2-3 seasons and then look to sell.

The money in the Premier League is going up and up (see Cardiff's £62m for finishing in 20th) and this carrat is surely the reason Venkys are still interested in owning a football club.

Ironically I think things like the Queen's visit will have helped the club in the short term, as the brothers will no doubt have enjoyed the secondary priviliges and perks of owning a football club.

To caveat all this, I do think the window of interest from Venkys is short. A 10 year stay in the Championship could be the catastrophic on many levels, but lets cross that bridge when we come to it.

So far if we put some jigsaw pieces together they will have blown £85million made up of £23m of cash used to buy the Club, £36m losses to June 2013 and a likely £25m loss to 30th June 2014. With parachutes about to halve they need to cut £8m costs next season just to keep the losses at £25m for next year. They may get a few players out but unlikely to be able to get rid of the high earning, cigar smoking mercenaries who will see out their fat contracts. So in all probability and with FFP around the corner you can't see much more in the way of players coming in unless some go out. They might also be mindful that if they do go up , there will be a massive fine under FFP. Be interesting to see what would happen if QPR go up next week as far as FFP is concerned .

So with £85m spewed so far that has to rise to above £100m by end of next season if not significantly more. How long do you carry on gambling then in order to get the £60m payday plus the parachutes that would go with that even if relegated from the PL in the first season? I agree with some posts that the window for selling the Club would be the minute we got promoted-the drugs are still working!

It seems hard to think that the £85m spewed so far will have been in hard cash and so there is likely to be borrowing in India .We believe that must be against personal assets in India rather than Company assets or the shareholders of Venkys as a public quoted company would be kicking off good style.

There has to be a point where the bank says we need to bring the facility down as its only going one way which will mean further assets being pledged or cash injected to pay down the Bank.

Either way this must be getting to a point where enough is enough on grounds of total stupidity if nothing else. The Rao's seem to have a degree in that.

Are the assets of the Club at risk? Well even though they might not be held as security by the Indian Bank they are owned by VLL and therefore the family can use them in any way they want to clear their personal liabilities or claw back what they have already spewed/repaid to the Indian Bank. So yes, potentially the Club assets are at risk.

is Administration likely? Well again as has been said on here many times, all that would do is crystallise losses and mean they are writing off loans to themselves so in that regard it makes little or no sense.

The only reason they might consider it and this has always been our biggest fear is if they say ''we are not prepared to keep pouring money/assets into this''. In other words, without being able to recover their outlay by selling (and theres no way in hell now) then the next best thing is to call a halt to their outflows in which case Administration would allow them to stop the tap.

It would be a costly decision but that money has already gone now anyway, with little prospect of getting it back so it is probably the only way they can stop bleeding cash.

So for how much longer do they want to feed this very hungry baby? That is the worry we all have and frankly however rich they are, blowing £100million on a Club in the Championship which gets no exposure has to by now be a little boring and tiresome for them never mind the expense of it.

I notice the foreign owner at Reading (alongside Madjeski) is bored now and wants out because outside the PL its just not glamorous enough for him.

I cant think our owners are a million miles away from thinking that and that is why we are very afraid. It may not be just yet but it aint far away.

[tomphil]

My views reading between the lines are that Venkys are happy to keep things ticking over for the time being, whilst staying open to the possibility of a 'get out' in the future.

That said, financially, they need to be in the Premier League to start recouping any sizeable money.

The best case scenario for all involved, is to keep the budget tight but fair this season, hope for promotion, then once back in the Premier League look to consolidate for 2-3 seasons and then look to sell.

The money in the Premier League is going up and up (see Cardiff's £62m for finishing in 20th) and this carrat is surely the reason Venkys are still interested in owning a football club.

Ironically I think things like the Queen's visit will have helped the club in the short term, as the brothers will no doubt have enjoyed the secondary priviliges and perks of owning a football club.

To caveat all this, I do think the window of interest from Venkys is short. A 10 year stay in the Championship could be the catastrophic on many levels, but lets cross that bridge when we come to it.

Cross that bridge when we come to it ? It will come sooner than ten years for sure. Parachutes dry up after next season and we'll still likely be making huge losses so we'll need 100% funding or another huge debt increase or huge sales and cost slashes. All this without promotion of course which is a very tall order for any club, Burnley were one of those freak cases that happen now and again. It'll be play offs at best for us and I love the way how across our fanbase people seem to talk about reaching the play offs as if it's promotion, jesus it's a lottery and they're heartbreakers if you don't make it. I also like the way in your ideal world it's promotion then consolidate for 2-3 years, really that easy is it ? It's a 90 % chance we'd be straight down again, those days of us being a solid Prem club are long gone. It took good ownership, tens of millions, good management, good stewardship and not least plenty world class players on big wages to keep that going, it ain't goin to happen again. Which brings us back to Venkys, if they wan't a return then if we got promoted they'd likely keep running the club on a tight leash and bleed out what they could over the parachute time, maybe hope for another promo. If not then they'd probably sell. Maybe they'll surprise us all and they CAN afford to pump 20mill per year into the club without much bother, if so with the right management perhaps we could have a go at being re established but it'd take 5 plus years and they'll certainly be fed up by then unless the Queen gets a season ticket in the JW upper !

[arbitro]

So because I have the words Ibiza in my username you automatically assume I take drugs? tuttut!! I think you will find that more people would agree with my comment and can actually see the progress thats been made.

I'm no financial expert but can you please define 'progress'?

[den]

Maybe they'll surprise us all and they CAN afford to pump 20mill per year into the club without much bother, if so with the right management perhaps we could have a go at being re established but it'd take 5 plus years and they'll certainly be fed up by then unless the Queen gets a season ticket in the JW upper !

I don't think there's one fan who can make any sense of 'em. If they have money by the bucketload, why are we messing around like we are - and if they don't have shed loads to write off, we're truly knackered.

[broadsword]

Exactly den.

Everything's been done on the cheap now. The one time they put significant cash in it's to keep us put of admin.

If they had cash to burn bowyer would be gone, the wasters paid off and a few big transfers in.

They thought they could get us in the champs league on 5 mill a season and a few loans. I guess if they really had dough then they'd be thinking that if they doubled or tripled that they'd be champions

[ABBEY]

I don't think there's one fan who can make any sense of 'em. If they have money by the bucketload, why are we messing around like we are - and if they don't have shed loads to write off, we're truly knackered.

Er there is one on ewoods not finest . He loves them and I'm not joking. .

[IbizaRover]

I'm no financial expert but can you please define 'progress'?

reduced wage bill, higher up the league than last season. I'd see that as progress. Wouldnt you?

[ABBEY]

Top flight football .. Lesser players

Great progress

VENKYS OUT!