[Archived] Back Or Sack?

[Stuart]

Mid table shows we are progressing, slowly perhaps, but it is progression. Rome wasn't built in a day. Remember, after 1966 it took 25 years to return to the top flight. A little patience is required - something which the modern fan seems to lack and requires instant success yesterday.

Patience. That word again.

Do you have some inside info that means our debt isn't really anything to worry about?

Btw, 25 years and a very rich Rovers fan.

[Parsonblue]

Patience. That word again.

Do you have some inside info that means our debt isn't really anything to worry about?

Btw, 25 years and a very rich Rovers fan.

What has the debt to do with appointing a new manager except that it adds to the debt? Will another manager guarantee promotion - No. Will an experienced manager guarantee promotion - ask QPR fans because you can't get a more experienced manager with a superb track record than Harry and yet they are in the lottery of the play-offs despite spending a small fortune. You can achieve nothing without stability and patience - not popular words with some fans but no less true.

[onlyonejackwalker]

What has the debt to do with appointing a new manager except that it adds to the debt? Will another manager guarantee promotion - No. Will an experienced manager guarantee promotion - ask QPR fans because you can't get a more experienced manager with a superb track record than Harry and yet they are in the lottery of the play-offs despite spending a small fortune. You can achieve nothing without stability and patience - not popular words with some fans but no less true.

Normally I would agree. But the debt is a ticking time bomb and we are no nearer getting promoted. Our income is decreasing and there is no time to waste. Of course there are no guarantees. In a balance of probabilities however a proven alternative rather than what is arguably an internal over promotion may be appropriate. The silence from India is deafening.

[thenodrog]

Normally I would agree. But the debt is a ticking time bomb and we are no nearer getting promoted. Our income is decreasing and there is no time to waste. Of course there are no guarantees. In a balance of probabilities however a proven alternative rather than what is arguably an internal over promotion may be appropriate. The silence from India is deafening.

Some would say it is very welcome.

[onlyonejackwalker]

Some would say it is very welcome.

Not if trying to assess / guess strategy and avoiding circular discussions. Strategy might be a bit kind. Stumble, trip, stumble, trip.

[Stuart]

What has the debt to do with appointing a new manager except that it adds to the debt? Will another manager guarantee promotion - No. Will an experienced manager guarantee promotion - ask QPR fans because you can't get a more experienced manager with a superb track record than Harry and yet they are in the lottery of the play-offs despite spending a small fortune. You can achieve nothing without stability and patience - not popular words with some fans but no less true.

No inside info then, just a vague hope that our debt won't crush us.

Parson, I know you have a lot of time for Bowyer, and, given your knowledge of the reserve leagues, I imagine you are closer than most people to him but you only have to look at the recent managers to have been promoted from this league. Experience is what matters. Sure there's the rare exception, and people look at Hughton, but he had the resources and the squad - and by the look of things had a fire lit under him to get promoted.

Stability and patience is one thing but without pressure then it can soon become mediocrity and loss of interest.

[Parsonblue]

No inside info then, just a vague hope that our debt won't crush us.

Parson, I know you have a lot of time for Bowyer, and, given your knowledge of the reserve leagues, I imagine you are closer than most people to him but you only have to look at the recent managers to have been promoted from this league. Experience is what matters. Sure there's the rare exception, and people look at Hughton, but he had the resources and the squad - and by the look of things had a fire lit under him to get promoted.

Stability and patience is one thing but without pressure then it can soon become mediocrity and loss of interest.

Stuart, no club has the right to be successful. There are 92 clubs in the Football/Premier Leagues and how many can win something at the end of the year? Of course, you have ambitions and try to be successful. The 25 years between 1966 and 1992 were spent hoping for a successful season but during that period we had two relegations to the Third Division and two promotions back to the Second. We came close to returning to the top flight on a few occasions and we came close to relegation back to the Third on a couple of occasions. However, there was nowhere near the hysteria which seems to revolve around the manager at present.

The debt is what it is and there is no way that we will be promoted this season and so that debt will grow. Bowyer is on a twelve months rolling contract which I believe means he would get a twelve month settlement if he was sacked - more debt. A new manager would want his own backroom team and new players - more debt. At the end of it there is no guarantee of success. Look at the money that Sir Jack Hayward spent trying to emulate Jack Walker at Wolves in the 1990s. He hired a succession of experienced managers but had to wait years before he was successful.

If supporters lose interest because their team aren't winning all the time then they really aren't supporters are they? Look at North End. Over 50 years since their relegation from the First Division but they still have supporters who are as keen as any. The same with Cardiff who I remember seeing relegated for the top flight in 1961-62 and those fans have had to wait until this season to taste top flight football and will probably be back in the Championship next season.

[Majiball]

Stuart, no club has the right to be successful. There are 92 clubs in the Football/Premier Leagues and how many can win something at the end of the year? Of course, you have ambitions and try to be successful. The 25 years between 1966 and 1992 were spent hoping for a successful season but during that period we had two relegations to the Third Division and two promotions back to the Second. We came close to returning to the top flight on a few occasions and we came close to relegation back to the Third on a couple of occasions. However, there was nowhere near the hysteria which seems to revolve around the manager at present.

The debt is what it is and there is no way that we will be promoted this season and so that debt will grow. Bowyer is on a twelve months rolling contract which I believe means he would get a twelve month settlement if he was sacked - more debt. A new manager would want his own backroom team and new players - more debt. At the end of it there is no guarantee of success. Look at the money that Sir Jack Hayward spent trying to emulate Jack Walker at Wolves in the 1990s. He hired a succession of experienced managers but had to wait years before he was successful.

If supporters lose interest because their team aren't winning all the time then they really aren't supporters are they? Look at North End. Over 50 years since their relegation from the First Division but they still have supporters who are as keen as any. The same with Cardiff who I remember seeing relegated for the top flight in 1961-62 and those fans have had to wait until this season to taste top flight football and will probably be back in the Championship next season.

So it's the thought that counts?

[ABBEY]

Mid table shows we are progressing, slowly perhaps, but it is progression. Rome wasn't built in a day. Remember, after 1966 it took 25 years to return to the top flight. A little patience is required - something which the modern fan seems to lack and requires instant success yesterday.

Progession under these idiots would mean anything higher than 10th in the prem ... Anything less is NOT progession tho.

[yoda]

Stuart, no club has the right to be successful. There are 92 clubs in the Football/Premier Leagues and how many can win something at the end of the year? Of course, you have ambitions and try to be successful. The 25 years between 1966 and 1992 were spent hoping for a successful season but during that period we had two relegations to the Third Division and two promotions back to the Second. We came close to returning to the top flight on a few occasions and we came close to relegation back to the Third on a couple of occasions. However, there was nowhere near the hysteria which seems to revolve around the manager at present.

The debt is what it is and there is no way that we will be promoted this season and so that debt will grow. Bowyer is on a twelve months rolling contract which I believe means he would get a twelve month settlement if he was sacked - more debt. A new manager would want his own backroom team and new players - more debt. At the end of it there is no guarantee of success. Look at the money that Sir Jack Hayward spent trying to emulate Jack Walker at Wolves in the 1990s. He hired a succession of experienced managers but had to wait years before he was successful.

If supporters lose interest because their team aren't winning all the time then they really aren't supporters are they? Look at North End. Over 50 years since their relegation from the First Division but they still have supporters who are as keen as any. The same with Cardiff who I remember seeing relegated for the top flight in 1961-62 and those fans have had to wait until this season to taste top flight football and will probably be back in the Championship next season.

So it's the thought that counts?

Progession under these idiots would mean anything higher than 10th in the prem ... Anything less is NOT progession tho.

To measure progression/progress you need a reference point,

When the lunes took over we were mid table PL, how have we progressed?

[pk1875]

Nottingham Forest have decided to sack rather than back Billy Davies today.

[Bucksrover]

I agree with posts saying that the unknowns around the debt make it hard to discuss the football side - in terms of when we need to be promoted by.

I read somewhere that Leicester's owners wrote off a lot of the debt that was attached to their club, but from what I can gather Venkys are leaving the debt with the club - which they have to realise will appear to the fans like they are keeping their options open in case they decide to walk.

So as fans we don't know whether building towards a promotion push next season is progress, or whether it is too little too late.

If we keep this side and manager together - ditch Best and Co and add one or two I think we could have a good go next season. But I have no idea whether we will get that sort of time with Rhodes and co still on board.

Between our new Financial Director and Communications Director we could do with being let in on the plan (assuming there is one)

[Parsonblue]

So it's the thought that counts?

To measure progression/progress you need a reference point,

When the lunes took over we were mid table PL, how have we progressed?

So what you are saying is that the club has been in decline since winning the Premier League in 1994-95 because we haven't progressed beyond that? If the reference point is last season then we have progressed.

[JAL]

So what you are saying is that the club has been in decline since winning the Premier League in 1994-95 because we haven't progressed beyond that? If the reference point is last season then we have progressed.

For this supposed progress from last season can you tell us how many players have been recruited since last season and when you see the number would you say thats relative to the progress made allegedly.

When I see the likes of Eastwood and Varney signed that to me is a backwards step

[ABBEY]

So what you are saying is that the club has been in decline since winning the Premier League in 1994-95 because we haven't progressed beyond that? If the reference point is last season then we have progressed.

Erm we didn't win the league with VENKYSCUM ..you measure what has happened on THEIR watch !!!

[yoda]

So what you are saying is that the club has been in decline since winning the Premier League in 1994-95 because we haven't progressed beyond that? If the reference point is last season then we have progressed.

Its about time some of you took of the Rao tinted glasses, I was talking about progress since they rolled into town, as ABBEY says on their watch.

It is no good drawing a reference point at a position just to suit your argument.

We won the Worthington cup after the PL by the way

[Parsonblue]

Its about time some of you took of the Rao tinted glasses, I was talking about progress since they rolled into town, as ABBEY says on their watch.

It is no good drawing a reference point at a position just to suit your argument.

We won the Worthington cup after the PL by the way

No one is supporting the Rao family. They have been a disaster since day one. Sadly, at the moment we don't need them but we need their money to pay the wages. My point is with regard to Bowyer and I believe we have made progress under his watch this season. For that reason I would be more than happy with him in charge next season.

[yoda]

No one is supporting the Rao family. They have been a disaster since day one. Sadly, at the moment we don't need them but we need their money to pay the wages. My point is with regard to Bowyer and I believe we have made progress under his watch this season. For that reason I would be more than happy with him in charge next season.

Aspiring to mediocrity, if we are very lucky,

This is a results business, how are you measuring the progress?

[broadsword]

I thought it was promotion or bust? If it isn't, why was appleton binned? Why was berg binned?

Experience shows that you either bounce back within two years or likely as not you're shafted. The most important thing for venky's was to get the right manager in, which they have serially failed to do. They then gave bowyer the funds to bring a whole new squad in, throwing good money after bad.

To allow him to continue is false economy. If we're going to shy away from doing the right thing because we might not go up, why have we allowed bowyer to bring inso many players?

I can handle being crap but please let's not glory in shooting ourselves in the foot

[Bucksrover]

I don't think anyone is really disagreeing in terms of progress - as has been pointed out it depends on the reference point.

If you had to sum up Venky's ownership as a whole right now I don't think anyone would disagree that disaster is fitting.

What some fans are trying to do, myself included, is highlight that this season steps have been made in the right direction - 2 proper directors coming in, 1 manager instead of 4, some decent players signed (admittedly as well as some poor ones.)

If we are financially screwed and we had to go up this season or go bust, then yes the steady approach that has been taken is crazy. But if we have next season as well then I think this season has been progress on the 2 years before.

[Al]

For this supposed progress from last season can you tell us how many players have been recruited since last season and when you see the number would you say thats relative to the progress made allegedly.

When I see the likes of Eastwood and Varney signed that to me is a backwards step

You can add fat Feeney to that list but we are in a better state for a tilt at promotion next season than we were at this point last season, if we can only keep them fit and add a couple of defenders.

[Majiball]

So what you are saying is that the club has been in decline since winning the Premier League in 1994-95 because we haven't progressed beyond that? If the reference point is last season then we have progressed.

If we're going down that route then the club has been in decline since winning the league for the second time in three years back in 1914.

Until those thickheads figure out that they need to communicate with us and let us know the score, it's all pointless. People on here talk about stability and yet I don't see any, people just talk less, we still know nothing about our club anymore. Until that is resolved all the discussion etc etc are of no consequence as we don't know what game we are playing, just that we're paying one.

[Jimmy612]

If we're going down that route then the club has been in decline since winning the league for the second time in three years back in 1914.

Until those thickheads figure out that they need to communicate with us and let us know the score, it's all pointless. People on here talk about stability and yet I don't see any, people just talk less, we still know nothing about our club anymore. Until that is resolved all the discussion etc etc are of no consequence as we don't know what game we are playing, just that we're paying one.

What's our new press officer(?) up to? Anyone heard anything from him? Is he a press officer? Can't even remember now

[yoda]

What's our new press officer(?) up to? Anyone heard anything from him? Is he a press officer? Can't even remember now

He's suppressing,

Everything

[ABBEY]

He's blocked me on twitter and I only asked awkward questions and didn't even go in rant mode at him..