[Archived] Back Or Sack?

[thenodrog]

Why am I not surprised that a lot of comments made last night calling for Bowyers head appeared to come from people who weren't even at the match?

[thenodrog]

Billy Davies or Simon Grayson for me. Bowyer has shown no signs of consistency, learning or the ability to grind out results.

Doesn't seem long since we were deliberating between Allardyce and Laudrup to replace Mark Hughes! We ended up with John Williams plumbing for that complete dud Paul Ince. The decline started then and the rest as they say is history.

[roversfan99]

We then got Allardyce 6 months later and he was an undoubted success. Ince wasn't the start of a decline, Venkys were.

[thenodrog]

Think Bentley, Friedel, RSC ........then think Robinson, Grella, Andrews and Fowler to replace them. Allardyce was left to manage a much poorer squad than the one Ince had inherited.

Ince started the decline alright albeit no one knew then that the Indians were just around the corner to finish it.

[lraC]

The problem is, I don't think they have quite finished it yet. Where we will end up God only knows!

[jim mk2]

Doesn't seem long since we were deliberating between Allardyce and Laudrup to replace Mark Hughes! We ended up with John Williams plumbing for that complete dud Paul Ince. The decline started then and the rest as they say is history.

I don't think that's correct. Allardycde repaired the Ince damage very effectively but was never allowed to take us any farther. Who knows what he could have achieved if he had not been dumped so stupidily by the owners 3 years ago. Decline was not inevitable.

[thenodrog]

I don't think that's correct. Allardycde repaired the Ince damage very effectively but was never allowed to take us any farther. Who knows what he could have achieved if he had not been dumped so stupidily by the owners 3 years ago.

He did bloody well with what he had got but he'd have done better if (but for facebook numpties**) he'd come 6 months earlier and had the use of those players.

imo Bowyer's done well in most aspects of management but looks flaky with tactics and substitutions. Like all managers he's a sitting duck target when things aren't going well enough to meet the demands of unreasonable and myopic supporters. If I was him I'd be looking to bin off an assistant or two and bring someone in who has a strong tactical strength as No 2.

** maybe it wasn't Ince initially ..... more likely those gormless facebook warriors that we should be blaming for kicking off our demise. "Facebook.... the beginning of the end for BRFC".

[broadsword]

Beattie would be the fifth consecutive virtual rookie we've appointed.

No no and again no.

Appointing these rookies and giving them a budget is like buying a roller and getting a newly-licenced driver to chauffeur you around. Or buying a thai sex slave and having her mop the floors.

It's crazy sauce. Total wrongness

[jim mk2]

Howard Kendall and Mark Hughes (at club level) were both rookie managers and they didn't work out too badly. I guess most managers are a gamble because even experienced ones do not come with guarantees - witness Holloway and Davies recently.

[lraC]

Howard Kendall and Mark Hughes (at club level) were both rookie managers and they didn't work out too badly. I guess most managers are a gamble because even experienced ones do not come with guarantees - witness Holloway and Davies recently.

Spot on and I mentioned earlier in the thread about Brian McDermott and how well he did with Reading. He led them to the Championship title in his third season. He actually replaced Brendan Rodgers, who they sacked, so he did better with Reading than Rogers did and we all know how well he is doing now. Sometimes you have to take a chance with a Rookie and if Bowyer does go for whatever reason, we have very little to lose.

[Guest Norbert]

Beattie would most likely be another Berg. There is no evidence that he'll be anything special.

[Mike E]

People seem to be forgetting that Hughes had already spent 3 years managing egos like Giggs, Bellamy, Speed and Savage. Not 'club' management, but a damned good way to get your practice in.

[broadsword]

Decent managers have that X factor. Sometimes you can sense it in a rookie, other than that, a track record can be indicative and looking at that would give you more of a clue and increase your chances of getting the right man.

[yoda's brother]

He did bloody well with what he had got but he'd have done better if (but for facebook numpties**) he'd come 6 months earlier and had the use of those players.

imo Bowyer's done well in most aspects of management but looks flaky with tactics and substitutions. Like all managers he's a sitting duck target when things aren't going well enough to meet the demands of unreasonable and myopic supporters. If I was him I'd be looking to bin off an assistant or two and bring someone in who has a strong tactical strength as No 2.

** maybe it wasn't Ince initially ..... more likely those gormless facebook warriors that we should be blaming for kicking off our demise. "Facebook.... the beginning of the end for BRFC".

back to the 'its the fans fault' again

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Beattie would be the fifth consecutive virtual rookie we've appointed.

No no and again no.

Appointing these rookies and giving them a budget is like buying a roller and getting a newly-licenced driver to chauffeur you around. Or buying a thai sex slave and having her mop the floors.

It's crazy sauce. Total wrongness

Ok then, what non " rookie " do you see throwing their hat into the ring ?

I don't consider Hill a rookie . He got possibly the team with the worst record in the whole of the football league, the perennially under achieving Rochdale, to a play off final at Wembley and then automatic promotion for the only second time in the history of the club. This by playing passing football, not ale house football. During this time he brought through several strikers who've graced and are still gracing the Premier League. He left for mixed results at Barnsley, where they ran out of patience and sacked him. Barnsley are roughly now where they are when he left them. In the meantime Rochdale made a bizarre Keanesque appointment in the shape of Fred Eyres son who had been coaching kids at City. He took them backwards as did the guy who replaced him. Accy's very experienced John Coleman. He did no better and the end result was the 'Dale back in the bottom league playing @#/?.

Hill came back with the 'Dale again at rock bottom. In no time at all he's got them playing passing, entertaining, football again. Top of the league with promotion almost a certainty and another group of young players apparently heading for bigger and better things.

This guy has definitely got something. You need to live in Rochdale to realise the level of his achievement.

Having said all that I don't know why I'm bothering posting this because we'll start next season with Bowyer and Keith Hill will probably be somewhere else other than either Rochdale or Blackburn.

[broadsword]

Noy all rookies are bad and not all experienced managers are good.

We'll never know who'd throw their hat in the ring because as you say bowyer will be here for years. But malky mackay would be ideal

[JBiz]

Ok then, what non " rookie " do you see throwing their hat into the ring ?

I don't consider Hill a rookie . He got possibly the team with the worst record in the whole of the football league, the perennially under achieving Rochdale, to a play off final at Wembley and then automatic promotion for the only second time in the history of the club. This by playing passing football, not ale house football. During this time he brought through several strikers who've graced and are still gracing the Premier League. He left for mixed results at Barnsley, where they ran out of patience and sacked him. Barnsley are roughly now where they are when he left them. In the meantime Rochdale made a bizarre Keanesque appointment in the shape of Fred Eyres son who had been coaching kids at City. He took them backwards as did the guy who replaced him. Accy's very experienced John Coleman. He did no better and the end result was the 'Dale back in the bottom league playing @#/?.

Hill came back with the 'Dale again at rock bottom. In no time at all he's got them playing passing, entertaining, football again. Top of the league with promotion almost a certainty and another group of young players apparently heading for bigger and better things.

This guy has definitely got something. You need to live in Rochdale to realise the level of his achievement.

Having said all that I don't know why I'm bothering posting this because we'll start next season with Bowyer and Keith Hill will probably be somewhere else other than either Rochdale or Blackburn.

Guy I work with goes spotland regularly and he speaks highly of the way they have played compared to the "lump it" approach of Accy's famous JC. He also rates our centre back who is down there at current.

I also got to see Rochdale play pre-season and they weren't bad. They led but we came back when DJ Campbell "attained the equalization goal shot."

The negative is his time at Barnsley but they tend to go through managers at a rate of knots.

Certainly a better shout than Beattie, however he has made a decent start. Let us not forget that P.I big time Charlie was a managerial success in league two.

If I had to be pressed on an actually manager to choose the logical choice is yon lad who took a few years to get Cardiff promoted.

In terms of GB, I get frustrated but can understand some of the reactive posting- we tend to get most pre/post game which is fine but never devalue how things may look in the clear light of day.

In a place bereft of optimism, it is difficult to see change as anything other than a constant necessity. Those who oppose; buzzword "stability" trotted out, but we ALL want the club to get back or at least go towards where it came from.

I personally am far far up a tall fence. Without optimism I can't see a quick fix in terms of a manager with a style to win games and fans back. I could potentially see an experienced proven man being a positive but in reality and using precedent; an unlikelihood.

Let us not forget that whoever is given the reigns has to deal with an extremely basket case horse, with a taste for caviar on hey wages. This Jockey would need time and I'm 100% certain I'll be having the same argument with lots of you on the next manager WAY TOO EARLY.

It's not simply blind faith Gaz will get us promoted. Tweaks here and there, maybe he is capable maybe not, but from the top of this fence I don't even think my opinion even matters any more...

You guys will see what you see, just like me (Jason Lowe 4Life)

[Majiball]

Hilly's staff deserve a lot of Credit, Chris Beech is a very good coach.

[thenodrog]

back to the 'its the fans fault' again

Pretty obvious from that post that you were one of the Facebook Anti-Sam Warriors YB. If so then yes a part of our demise IS your fault along with about 1700 other clueless goons! Surely you aren't telling me that you were proud of your actions in contributing to Paul Ince being chosen before Allardyce?

[Neal]

Pressley would be a much better option than Hill.

[gumboots]

Pretty obvious from that post that you were one of the Facebook Anti-Sam Warriors YB. If so then yes a part of our demise IS your fault along with about 1700 other clueless goons! Surely you aren't telling me that you were proud of your actions in contributing to Paul Ince being chosen before Allardyce?

That presupposes that the choice was between the two. In opposing Allardyce very few were specifically saying yes to Ince, but of course, that fits your agenda so you'll think everyone who didn't want Allardyce actually really wanted Ince.

[K-Hod]

Pretty obvious from that post that you were one of the Facebook Anti-Sam Warriors YB. If so then yes a part of our demise IS your fault along with about 1700 other clueless goons! Surely you aren't telling me that you were proud of your actions in contributing to Paul Ince being chosen before Allardyce?

I doubt very much John Williams had a facebook account, never mind listened to 1700 goons on there!!

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Noy all rookies are bad and not all experienced managers are good.

Ok, the vast majority of rookies are bad and the majority of experienced managers are good.

Football management at the higher levels is an incredibly hard job. A manager needs to be intelligent, tactically astute, authoritative, highly motivational and know the game inside out. He needs to be able to get performances week in week out from rich, arrogant young men. That last sentence is something Bowyer, and most rookies, struggle with above all else. Players tend to play for rookie managers only when the occasion motivates them. We played well against the top sides under Kean and we do the same under Bowyer, its every other game that shows up their weaknesses.

I'd imagine about 9 out of 10 rookie managers who try their hand in professional football fail. So if you go for experience, you're already going for someone who's in the top 10%. A club at Rovers level should never go for rookie managers, its completely insane in my opinion.

[yoda's brother]

Pretty obvious from that post that you were one of the Facebook Anti-Sam Warriors YB. If so then yes a part of our demise IS your fault along with about 1700 other clueless goons! Surely you aren't telling me that you were proud of your actions in contributing to Paul Ince being chosen before Allardyce?

dont do faceache smartarse.

didnt want ince especially after THAT unveiling comment about relegation.

i wanted us to go for laudrup at the time.

big sam, no not my choice but he did ok and shouldnt have been binned like he was.

is it still my fault.

lancashire united/rovers etc PIFFLE

[thenodrog]

That presupposes that the choice was between the two. In opposing Allardyce very few were specifically saying yes to Ince, but of course, that fits your agenda so you'll think everyone who didn't want Allardyce actually really wanted Ince.

Next rainy day read back. Allardyce managed our rivals bolton whilst Ince played for manu like Hughes so he must be a better manager don't you know? Much the same illogical and irrational optimism was displayed by the same people when the new owners trapped up too.

I doubt very much John Williams had a facebook account, never mind listened to 1700 goons on there!!

You might be wrong there you know k-hod.