[Archived] Back Or Sack?

[Jimmy612]

No one did Jimmy.

That isn't the defining argument though. It's the replacing of one huge underperforming squad with another, the clueless performances, the baffling substitutions, the lack of any kind of game or transfer plan etc, etc.

What has anyone seen to suggest next season would be any different to this one? Well recently there's more to suggest it will be worse. That's what it's all about. Keeping Bowyer because we've finished mid table - assuming we do - after bringing in 19 of his own players does nothing for me.

Can't argue with any of that Den, and you'll note I had expressed a concern over his tactics etc. However, we should know more than anyone that change is not always for the good, particularly with our managerial selection process.

[Blue blood]

I think the biggest things to think of on this are context, rather than a knee jerk reaction to a few losses.

For me the context and key questions would be as follows:

1) What's the state of the league like? Could we have done better?

Last season was nuts - there'll never be another one like it. Bottom teams beating top ones regularly, the miniscule amount of points between playoffs and relegation - it all meant that a similar amount of points saw us just avoid relegation.

So in some ways last season was misleading, as even a similar amount of points this season (or probably a few less) will show a much better league position. This is a bit misleading, as actual improvement, performance wise and table position wise, isn't as big as the league table suggests.

Another factor in this, is regardless of expectations, could and should we have done better this year. At the start of the year most people, if not all, would say mid table is where we should be. However, given a few of the gems Bowyer has unearthed, and a lot of points we've thrown away in a silly manner - through carelessness and daft tactics - you have to feel we should have done better. At home there's been numerous games we should have got three points and didn't - Charlton, Sheff Weds, Reading, to name but three, as well as some on the road as well. Indeed, you could argue with a better first substitution vs. Burnley we'd have had a better chance of holding on. It seems an endless list. In the context of this season, it really does seem a missed opportunity.

To put this another way, let's say I'm an average runner in a race, I should be happy with a finish somewhere in the middle. But if the best racer trips over part way through, and another comes the worse for wear after a night on the tiles, and I don't finish higher up, in that context I should be disappointed.

IMO in the context of the season - we could have done better.

2) Is Bowyer improving?

This is a huge question. I think most, if not all, fans want GB to succeed. He's a nice guy, part of the club etc. and so there is a vast amount of goodwill for him to succeed. And with a rookie manager, what most people expected was mistakes, but for him to learn from them and improve as the season went on. Certainly no one expected the finished article, the question was - and is - how quickly will he learn? And will it be quick enough for us to have a successful season (whatever that looks like, depending on fans opinion.)

So we have to ask - is he improving? I'm honestly not sure. In some areas I think he is. Transfers are one - his first foray pre-season was a mixed bag, with some gems and duds. Since then he's consistently added quality: Gestede, Cairney (permanently), Conway, Keane. He's also done well both transfer windows getting rid of the dross. However, leaving only 2 center backs in the squad is a mistake of epic proportions, and is so unprofessional it's hard to see how it can happen and personally shook my confidence in GB a lot.

Tactics wise and formation wise - I'm not sure there is improvement. There's been a few good innovative ideas, like Leeds away, and GB has looked for ways to get the best out of Rhodes finishing ability. However his use of Will-Lowe has been damaging, regardless of the injury situation, and his substitutions are often as harmful to us as the opposition. There's also a real worry that we cannot change tactics to alter the course of a match either.

Injuries haven't helped, but there seems no idea of either a settled team, or a settled style of play - with players who fit into this. We're now hoofing it long lots, after trying to be creative with Rochina and Dunn at the start of the season. It seems as though Bowyer still doesn't know who or how he wants us to play. There are positives - recognizing Judge, Marrow etc. weren't up to it, breaking up Will-Lowe when Evans is fit, keeping Robinson and getting some good performances out of King to name a few. However, no one as yet still knows what the style, plan or team, which is worrying.

Overall I'd say that progress is slow. Dangerously slow. Whilst he seems to have sussed out players reasonably well, a lack of tactical acumen and a settled plan is holding us back. I'd say my biggest worry here is that Bowyer doesn't seem to be improving at all in his areas of weakness.

3) When is promotion or bust?

If it's this season, we never should have given Bowyer the job - it's a hell of an ask to ask a rookie manager to get promoted in a competitive league. If this is the case - a distinct possibility with our finances - then this is arguably the biggest error our "owners" have made, flushing the last chance of escape down the pan.

If it's next season - have we seen enough from GB to think he'll get us promoted next season? Have we seen enough improvement from him this season to think there is a reasonable chance of this? Do we think an experienced man would do a better job? If we absolutely have to go up next season, what represents our best chance of doing so - is it GB?

I find it hard to believe that there isn't a promotion or bust situation looming. If there isn't perhaps it is a case of better the devil you know, especially with our owners, but if we need promotion then this absolutely must be a factor in making a decision. Because if Bowyer isn't up to getting promotion in the necessary time frame, then we have to change. A slim chance of going up, is better than none.

Overall my view would be sack and get an experienced man in. To me Bowyer hasn't shown much improvement, not enough to suggest that promotion will come in the next year or so, which is in my opinion the time limit we have left to get promoted or go bust.

[Clitherover]

Probably too late to achieve promotion now so I don't see the point in sacking him straight away. Let him go back to doing his old job with the youth team if he will and replace him as soon as the season finishes.

Nice guy and has offered the club relative stability but it's time for a proven manager.

[thenodrog]

I've only read Kamy's article and not the comments to this point. Kamy puts forward a reasonable argument for retaining GB and if we are honest the manager has done nothing which warrants the sack That's the problem though - the manager has done nothing, like everyone else in a senior position at Ewood. Why do we have stability now? All the boat rockers have left and it wasn't GB who cleared them out. On the pitch it is now Bowyer's team. A bland, predictable, unimaginative team that creates no excitement. It's all a bit "nice" with no balls. We completely lack imagination and creativity, there are no exciting players. Are we stable on the pitch? Probably and with this sort of squad will remain so, an average mid-table Championship side. Promotion isn't a possibility and if it was achieved would result in relegation the following season as we have no PL quality players. Financially that would probably be a positive outcome. We've been "four points off the playoffs" - that's a mantra for some - all season. Truth is the team isn't good enough to capitalise on others failure. It's the manager's team so it's his responsibility. I didn't go on Wednesday. Why? My lad didn't want to - increasingly so for night games these days. I thought about going. I got home from work tired, it felt cold outside. Line of Duty was on the telly at 9.00pm and that plus a whisky was a more attractive option. There I've admitted it, nothing to do with Burnley, I just didn't fancy it. I've put the Raos to the back of my mind until the chance comes to change things. In the meantime I'd just like to watch some mildly enterprising football. It's not asking too much. Will it happen? No. We will carry on going when Tom wants to. Cold Wednesday nights in Blackburn he doesn't like and so we will only be there in Saturdays. Why is it like this? The Raos destroyed his team, he doesn't understand and I don't have the energy any more. Shame really. Is that a reason to sack the manager who is a decent man? No. No one ever asks me "how did Rovers get on" these days. Sighs

Some good points Paul except for the bolded bit.

You are my age so you will know that we have seen all this before from the mid 60's right up to the Walker years. Obviously I'm not defending the Rao's in any way as I was the first and staunchest opposition to them on here from even before they trapped up. But the effect lower division football and the associated sense of hopelessness is NOT down to them. So many people are making them a convenient excuse just as they did Wembley 60 when we were lads.

The time to stay away was during the summer of 2011 and later during the subsequent protests. Now that they have taken a back seat and to date have not shut up shop your objections don't wash. If there is a more persuasive argument to prevent them shutting up shop or selling on than a full house then I don't know what it is..... and vice versa with row upon row of empty seats. If you recall you were wavering on your ST back then and I was urging you (and everyone else) to bin it for the greater good. You wouldn't do just as many others wouldn't and in fact I rem you gave Tom as the reason behind your decision then. As it says in then good book.... you reap what you sow.

btw this isn't criticism of you in particular this is just how I see the chain of events that have brought us here.

I had a free ST on Wed and I offered it to my mate who until last season had had a ST for 20 odd years (and in fact bought one when I binned off mine in 2011). He rang back to say that he had some paperwork to do.

[thenodrog]

Despite only a few posters commenting either way (less than 20?), it appears from the vote that the vast majority have run out of patience or are only prepared to continue with their blind faith until the end of the season - at which point it would be reviewed.

So, despite a feeling from the fans - and, going off Wednesday's zombie-like effort performance walkabout, the players too - that there is nothing to play for now, I think Bowyer himself will be under even closer scrutiny. The remaining 12 of the season could be a mini league for him.

So I'll ignore the last 3 games - despite the shame, humiliation and embarrassment (are we still embarrassed any more?) and see what happens between now and the end of the season. I can't say fairer than that.

As it stands:

P0 W0 D0 L0 F0 A0

I'll go with that.

If you look at the players brought in and the ones that left its an awful improvement, getting the likes off cairney, evans, marshall, gestede and spurr for almost peanuts is great work by GB. Then his way of using some of them leaves some questions.

But injuries has been hard on us this season, imagine a whole season with them and Robinson from the start.

Quite right.... but even that wouldn't cover up his lack of tactical nous and his reluctance to dispense with certain out of form players would it?

[thenodrog]

Not convinced the signing of Spurr was great work...

Kilgallon injury prone , why no cover when Dann was sold ? MAKES THE LUCAS NEILL OFFER VERY MYSTEFYING.

Taylor, Judge , Marrow 2 gone the other will in summer ..not good enough .. THE ONLY TIME THAT I HAVE SEEN TAYLOR PLAY POORLY IS WHEN WE HAVE PLAYED 4-4-2.

Varney and Feeney a complete waste of time and money ! I'D HAVE TO GO ALONG WITH THAT.

Kane gone backwards this season ... ODD THAT... BUT NOT AS MUCH AS HENDLEY HAS.

Conway to me is not fast enough ..Marshall was starting to perform a bad loss..Think thats why we signed Conway .. OK THESE TWO. TOP HALF CHAMPIONSHIP PLAYERS BOTH.

Eastwood not good enough ...Talk of him getting new contract why ? EASTWOODS SITUATION DEPENDS ALMOST TOTALLY ON ROBINSON AND COST. DAFT AS IT SOUNDS HE'S OK AS UNDERSTUDY BUT IF ROBINSON MOVES ON WE NEED A 1ST TEAM KEEPER.

The best players at the club are Robinson , Hanley , Dunn and Rhodes .. DUNN IS NOW LOOKING HIS AGE... AND SOME.

Do you honestly think that a team in the Championship, with an 8 million quid striker sets it's objective for the season as a mid table finish?

It does when the 8m quid striker turns himself into a half a million one.

[ABBEY]

I have not called for his head until Weds night. What I had stated was he WAS NOT the right man for the job( Blackpool Rover, says no fan has the right for any opinions on football managers because we have not been one tho). I have thought that about every appt. the lunes have made . The names bandied about and the names given the role are scary. All I think about is 33/1 when zzzam was potted and 33/1 when Crappleton was hired £££££.

Bowyer is his own worst enemy in that he is either the most dour & Frightened person , caught in the headlights or he is aware he out of his depth. I don't which . His negativity stems from his mindset and he is more happy to try not to lose than he is to try and win . His attitude of trying to defend a lead by not trying to score another is defeatist .

The straw that broke the back for me was the interview on weds night when he said we played well for the first 5 mins and robbo made only one save and the veiled dig at fans. It was a Steve kean interview style.

What happens if he went would the the fat owd hag get it right ? Ha not s chance .

Yes we need a REAL manager but it will be Ali or the like.

Nothing will change and The jellyfish brigade will continue telling us how Rosie everything is after the 6th straight loss and the VENKYSCUM will continue ignoring what's happening.

[thenodrog]

He stopped the rot and steadied the ship but we've had numerous opportunities to kick on which he's said at times but come match day failed to grasp the bull by the horns. That's unfathomable for a team that's supposed to need promotion or bust. No leadership from upstairs though to pull him aside and say time to step it up. Deggsy on a nice little number, just plod on and if he gets sacked it's pay off time. He went attack at Leeds and we won, why? Because his lynchpin was out so he had to alter tactics. People keep saying we are better off than last season, off the pitch it would seem true but on it if we carry on loosing and the rot sets in again well we aren't are we !

Nah..... it's cos everyone does that to LUFC since Christmas. A great result at the time but not so great now I suggest.

[Mike E]

Despite only a few posters commenting either way (less than 20?), it appears from the vote that the vast majority have run out of patience or are only prepared to continue with their blind faith until the end of the season - at which point it would be reviewed.

So, despite a feeling from the fans - and, going off Wednesday's zombie-like effort performance walkabout, the players too - that there is nothing to play for now, I think Bowyer himself will be under even closer scrutiny. The remaining 12 of the season could be a mini league for him.

So I'll ignore the last 3 games - despite the shame, humiliation and embarrassment (are we still embarrassed any more?) and see what happens between now and the end of the season. I can't say fairer than that.

As it stands:

P0 W0 D0 L0 F0 A0

I voted for 'end of season review'.

But my actual view is as follows: If we make it past the Leicester game with a 5-game run of losses, I want him to retreat to the reserves or be sacked.

Patience is fine up to a point. But when the luxury of time isn't there and there are managers with promotion experience available, we need to crack on imo.

Bowyer needs to at least beat Huddersfield and draw Leicester for me (with convincing performances to boot). If not, he needs to go.

[Mike E]

I have not called for his head until Weds night. What I had stated was he WAS NOT the right man for the job( Blackpool Rover, says no fan has the right for any opinions on football managers because we have not been one tho). I have thought that about every appt. the lunes have made . The names bandied about and the names given the role are scary. All I think about is 33/1 when zzzam was potted and 33/1 when Crappleton was hired £££££.

Bowyer is his own worst enemy in that he is either the most dour & Frightened person , caught in the headlights or he is aware he out of his depth. I don't which . His negativity stems from his mindset and he is more happy to try not to lose than he is to try and win . His attitude of trying to defend a lead by not trying to score another is defeatist .

The straw that broke the back for me was the interview on weds night when he said we played well for the first 5 mins and robbo made only one save and the veiled dig at fans. It was a Steve kean interview style.

What happens if he went would the the fat owd hag get it right ? Ha not s chance .

Yes we need a REAL manager but it will be Ali or the like.

Nothing will change and The jellyfish brigade will continue telling us how Rosie everything is after the 6th straight loss and the VENKYSCUM will continue ignoring what's happening.

Something in your drinking water Abs? You're being reasonable!

[mattjansen]

I'll go with that.

Quite right.... but even that wouldn't cover up his lack of tactical nous and his reluctance to dispense with certain out of form players would it?

I agree, his tactical knowledge is not great it seems. But its his first season in charge and its quite some step from reserve league to championship, the question stands to be answered if he has learned and will improve on that. He is still bounds above Kean,Appleton and Berg in my view when it comes to making us a team again

[arbitro]

My greatest concern is that if he is tactically naive now after nigh on 12 months in the job how is he going to suddenly get better? He has had a lifetime working at various capacaties in professional football and still keeps making poor decisions.

And that applies to McPhillips, Short and Grant.

[Tom]

I think I had us down to finish 11th - 14th this season and that looks about right it's just frustrating how it's panned out

Many times we've been a position to push on and negative tactics have held us back

I'm still of the opinion GB will keep us steady in this league but if we want to kick on we need to thank him and find someone better however the problem is that may mean another huge overhaul of the squad and another season of transition

[rhodie]

Surprisingly,when the team does play an attacking game, you can see the potential they have to do well in this league.I don`t know if it`s just me, but lately when you watch the team in action I`m thinking " They`re just testing them, any minute now they are going step it up too their normal pace and issue a pasting". but it just doesn`t seem to happen. Bowyer has steadied the ship and bought about a sense of normality again to the club, he genuinely seems to have an affection for Blackburn Rovers, it would be a shame to lose him. Promoting a person then demoting them again never works in any organisation, maybe the better option would be to give him a role similar to director of football and then bring in an experienced manager like Malky. Realistically this season is over for us, if by any freak chance we did make the playoffs and got promoted we are not at all ready. We need at least another season or two in this league to finish rebuilding, unless the owners are willing to spend mega money on buying virtually a full prem league squad... can`t see that happening.

[Gamst]

I voted to keep him as manager and review his position at the end of the season. He deserves his chance as he has done a lot of good for the club under very difficult circumstances. He is a club man and has brought stability and respect back to the club and we should be very grateful for that. I am concerned with his managerial prowess, and sadly I am not convinced that he has what it takes to get us promoted. I think with the squad we have we should be competing for the play-offs and in that respect, we are a little bit short of where we should be. Also, I feel as though our performances are not as good as our position in the table suggests; indicated by our poor goal difference. We are a mid-table performing team that are nearer the bottom clubs than the top clubs in our level of performance. GB's tactics and ability to motivate what looks on paper a decent squad has to be called into question.

He should use the remainder of this season to experiment with tactics and start to change his defensive philosophy. I don't mind losing matches if there are signs that we are looking to be more offensive and trying new things. The season is over and it will be a test of his man-management skills to see if he can motivate the players to keep pressing on. Basically, these remaining games should be a trial period for GB to prove to us that his team and his management skills have what it takes to get us challenging for promotion next season. I really hope he succeeds as I really like what he has done off the pitch, but my gut instinct is that he won't succeed. He definitely has done enough to deserve the opportunity though!

Furthermore, if we stick with him and it does not work out, we will have shown future managers that our board are now more willing to act sensibly and give managers a chance. I hope we are looked upon a bit more positively within the football community after a year or so of relative calm. I would also prefer to give GB the opportunity to remain at the club as first team coach or any other job under the manager that he fancies, as he is clearly a good influence and a good guy. Whether he would want to do that or not would be entirely up to him.

[DE.]

Realistically this season is over for us, if by any freak chance we did make the playoffs and got promoted we are not at all ready.

To be honest this part doesn't worry me too much. I have no doubt that if we did get promoted we would get absolutely slaughtered in the premier league, but the money gained from just a single season would be a huge boost for the club (unless the Raos threw it all away on agents fees during the season).

[Jimmy612]

Basically, these remaining games should be a trial period for GB to prove to us that his team and his management skills have what it takes to get us challenging for promotion next season.

Yes, this was mooted by Stuart earlier. What form can we produce in the last 12 games.

Having said all of this, and having created a poll and all of this debate; are Venkys likely to sack Bowyer. My gut instinct is that they won't.

[yoda]

Yes, this was mooted by Stuart earlier. What form can we produce in the last 12 games.

Having said all of this, and having created a poll and all of this debate; are Venkys likely to sack Bowyer. My gut instinct is that they won't.

I think they will just not renew his contract

[Jimmy612]

I think they will just not renew his contract

Forgotten about that. Derek will be on the case practically every day I would bet.

Typically I bet nothing will be discussed until the end of season - will take a month to argue out and we will finally either crack on with Bowyer or begin our managerial search in early July, a month and a half behind schedule.

[roverandout]

he has had nearly a season to prove himself, how many managers get that when a team underperforms so often? fans have been more than enough patient with him, we all said the same about kean, give him more time etc and look how that turned out, do we really want to end up on that road again?

[davulsukur]

 

 

I think they will just not renew his contract

I thought he was on a rolling contract and it just carries on unless we sack him? Could be wrong tho.

[yoda]

I thought he was on a rolling contract and it just carries on unless we sack him? Could be wrong tho.

You just don't renew it, (12 months I think it is) other wise it is a job for life

[Stuart]

To be honest this part doesn't worry me too much. I have no doubt that if we did get promoted we would get absolutely slaughtered in the premier league, but the money gained from just a single season would be a huge boost for the club (unless the Raos threw it all away on agents fees during the season).

What an horrific thought!

[Atomicrover]

he has had nearly a season to prove himself, how many managers get that when a team underperforms so often? fans have been more than enough patient with him, we all said the same about kean, give him more time etc and look how that turned out, do we really want to end up on that road again?

I'm not a vindictive person, Bowyer was chosen for a load of reasons not least of which the fact that we avoided relegation last year, but after the last 3 results and especially the MANNER of those results, its clear that if we truly believe a push is still possible or looking to next year, we need a Manager who is up to the job - and after Wednesday Im sorry to say Bowyer isn't it.

Dont blame injuries, its too easy an excuse the teams we've put out over the last 3 games were perfectly capable of getting a result and if we are to believe that players follow the gaffers orders, then the orders being issued are ineffective, either that or all our players are crap which is not true (jury still out on Feeney but its not looking good)

If we delay in making the right (stress right) appointment the rest of this, and certainly next season, will follow the same pattern.

[The_Expert]

Much as I like the low-key public image of the guy, I really think we need a hard-nosed, tactically savvy MANAGER, rather than a touchy feely coach... I'm sure GB can continue his own personal development and maybe even one day cut it as a manager, but it is more important that we restore some sense of leadership, direction and strategy at the club, Now!