[Archived] Back Or Sack?

[broadsword]

Stop appointing chancers and give the gig to a proper manager and stop fart-arsing around dragging them over to India for a cosy chat and stop forming close personal friendships with managers.

Get your fat wobbly no-good ass over to Blackburn and damn well sort it out.

It's not rocket science.

[den]

Unfortunately, the relationship between the manager and owners is far more open to abuse at Ewood than anywhere else Gord. I have no doubt it was used by Kean - and is being used now.

[Blue blood]

Well the GB debate rages on, and we've been spectacularly inconsistent showing glimpses of utter dross, as well as moments when we're as good as if not outperforming any team in the league. The wins vs QPR and Ipswich give you hope, but the last 2 games make you think he's useless.

Taking a longer term view, my big problem is consistency. We're making the same consistent mistakes. Of late we've made 3 key mistakes which IF Bowyer was any good would never be repeated.

1) Criticizing and blaming the fans. The fans have been abused the last few seasons by all and sundry at the club - Kean, Anderson, the "owners", an overpaid bunch of not-good-enoughs - and now GB. Surely given all the fans have been through, given how little of the fan base remains - it should be obvious (no scratch should be, it's blindingly obvious) that the fans need to be kept on side and will have small tolerance levels. To then go slate them, is madness.

2) Negative tactics against weaker teams in the division. Yes, there are no easy games in this division, so why such a meek performance. We've done it time after time against the lower ability teams in this division, which shouts out we haven't the ruthlessness or tactical acumen to progress.

3) Lowe and Williamson. No problem with bringing in Lowe, I actually think he's a decent player - but Lowe and Williamson together do not work. It never has, it never will. Also it's a poor shout thinking we need to do this against the bottom team in the division. It also - as always - limits the use of Cairney. Every fan on here can see it, so why can't Bowyer.

IMO it's not our inconsistency that should cost Bowyer his job, but the constant failure to learn from past mistakes.

[Amo]

A list of our managers from since King Kenny departed:

Ray Harford

Roy Hodgson

Brian Kidd

Graeme Souness

Mark Hughes

Paul Ince

Sam Allardyce

Steve Kean

Henning Berg

Michael Appleton

Gary Bowyer

The ones in bold are those who I'd class as managerial appointments where they had experience at the highest level. The rest, I'd say, were complete gambles. None of them were proven as club managers at a high level.

My only point here is that there is an expectancy of us to employ experienced managers yet only 30% or so over the last decade have been that.

And doesn't it tell you something that they were the most successful managers we've had in recent years?

Also, how exactly is international football not the highest level (i.e. Hughes)?

[dingles staying down 4ever]

!!! !!!

btw It might be wise to change your name.

Btw Been said many times.......but no real point for the one season they'll be there plus the fat lady is only warming her vocal chords at the moment.....she ain't singing yet!

With the bull coming out from Bowyer's mouth its just like Kean's bought a wig!

A list of our managers from since King Kenny departed:

Ray Harford

Roy Hodgson

Brian Kidd

Graeme Souness

Mark Hughes

Paul Ince

Sam Allardyce

Steve Kean

Henning Berg

Michael Appleton

Gary Bowyer

The ones in bold are those who I'd class as managerial appointments where they had experience at the highest level. The rest, I'd say, were complete gambles. None of them were proven as club managers at a high level.

My only point here is that there is an expectancy of us to employ experienced managers yet only 30% or so over the last decade have been that.

Hodgson was hardly a success in his second season and according to Theno Souness wasn't because he was about to be sacked so we might as well as pick inexperienced managers.

Do you have a solution den? Rolling 6 month contracts perhaps? Points targets?

Like the players, give the manager a short, incentive driven contracts rather than long contracts with high basic salary!

[Stuart]

1) Criticizing and blaming the fans. The fans have been abused the last few seasons by all and sundry at the club - Kean, Anderson, the "owners", an overpaid bunch of not-good-enoughs - and now GB. Surely given all the fans have been through, given how little of the fan base remains - it should be obvious (no scratch should be, it's blindingly obvious) that the fans need to be kept on side and will have small tolerance levels. To then go slate them, is madness.

Good post blueblood. Obviously I disagree with part of it.

I've picked out the above though because this is what wound me up yesterday. It's a cheap shot to have a go at the fans particularly when he has had so much patience from them for so long, despite being a complete novice, and even now, the dissent on a match day is minimal.

It's also pretty daft. The fans will simply think he's choosing sides with Venkys AGAINST the fans, when he has the choice to remain neutral. Managers up and down the country know how important the fans are and usually remain diplomatic. Losing the fans is nearly as bad as losing the dressing room, and it's a sure fire way to get sacked.

Except at Rovers.

Here the fans' opinions are immaterial to the owners, and a manager only has to demonstrate loyalty to them to remain in permanent employment.

Bowyer has been held up time and time again as PROOF that the club is returning to normal, stabilising even. But when your manager starts to go down the same road as the most hated manager in the club's history, you have to wonder if normal, if stability is just a fallacy, as some suspect.

You add in stuff like Dabo, during Hanley's injury/suspension, and the lack of credible subs in recent matches (is there a monthly quota?) to start to wonder if there is still an unnatural stench at the club.

There is no good and evil. There is only power, and those too weak to seek it.

[broadsword]

Ray Harford managed Luton and won the League Cup with them. Does that not count?

Only gambles before the @#/? turned up were Kidd and Ince.

I see we're down to 11th. Oh, the irony.

[broadsword]

Eh?

Ray Harford managed Luton Town 1987 to 1990. During that time they were in the top flight, got to two league finals and won one.

How that's got anything to do with Ince at Macclesfield I don't know.

Hughes already had shown he had something about him as manager of Wales. I wasn't especially worried about the prospect of him coming. Certainly a much better bet than 3 bald chancers and an academy director.

[davulsukur]

Comparisons between Bowyer and Kean are harsh.

One stabbed someone else in the back in order to get into the hot seat. The other did not,which should tell you all you need to know about the 2.

GB isn't the best manager around but he definitely is not in the same league as Kean.

[Stuart]

Not sure if this the right place to ask but:

Does anyone think that one of the pre-requisites for any interviewed manager is that they have to be prepared to make monthly trips to Pune?

Does anyone think that a football manager worthy of the title would put up with that? Effectively being Madame's lapdog.

[davulsukur]

I would definitely say that it is part of the deal. Venkys seem to want that element of "control" and to make it look like they are in charge.

I imagine that it would put off a few managers.

[thenodrog]

2) Negative tactics against weaker teams in the division. Yes, there are no easy games in this division, so why such a meek performance. We've done it time after time against the lower ability teams in this division, which shouts out we haven't the ruthlessness or tactical acumen to progress.

In fairness (and this is most definitely NOT my view) no doubt Bowyer thinks that if we can keep it tight at the back then by most peoples opinions Jordan Rhodes should have the finishing skills on a %age basis to bring home the bacon. Yesterday he simply didn't perform did he?

Like the players, give the manager a short, incentive driven contracts rather than long contracts with high basic salary!

I've advocated that for donkeys years. Makes me weep to think of the money we've spewed getting rid of dollopers on long fat contracts. Where is the incentive to perform in those?

[thenodrog]

I would definitely say that it is part of the deal. Venkys seem to want that element of "control" and to make it look like they are in charge.

I imagine that it would put off a few managers.

maybe we should make Ewood Spark the manager..... I'm sure he'd be quite happy trotting off to Pune everytime Mrs Desai snapped her fingers.

tbh the man who should go if anybody should is Derek Shaw.

[JAL]

maybe we should make Ewood Spark the manager..... I'm sure he'd be quite happy trotting off to Pune everytime Mrs Desai snapped her fingers.

tbh the man who should go if anybody should is Derek Shaw.

What about the inept scousers in and around the club ?

[Stuart]

tbh the man who should go if anybody should is Derek Shaw.

Absolutely!

[Athlete]

maybe we should make Ewood Spark the manager..... I'm sure he'd be quite happy trotting off to Pune everytime Mrs Desai snapped her fingers.

tbh the man who should go if anybody should is Derek Shaw.

Chaddy would also go galloping off to Pune.........

[dingles staying down 4ever]

I've advocated that for donkeys years. Makes me weep to think of the money we've spewed getting rid of dollopers on long fat contracts. Where is the incentive to perform in those?

Agree but most managers will argue about needing time. Another line direct from the FA school of coaching phrase book

What about the inept scousers in and around the club ?

Bit harsh on the Finance Director. We've not seen enough of him to call him inept.

[Tom]

Chaddy just pointed out that nicko has posted that sherwood wants the rovers job

[Ricky]

For this league I think we need to go down the experience route. Nobody would have given either Steve Bruce or Steve McLaren a look in previously but both have done very well. Someone like Mcleish maybe. I'd clad him in the same category as those two. Not someone I'd usually consider but he has got teams promoted before.

[Stuart]

Chaddy just pointed out that nicko has posted that sherwood wants the rovers job

Has he left Spurs yet?

[glen9mullan]

It's a tough one regarding the manager ,

Bowyer reminds me of Tony Parkes, the ultimate Mr Nice guy who can steady the rudderless ship to shore during rough waters, when Rovers needed that all together man Tony was that man but was never the long term solution.

Tony was adored around the Training Ground as like many coaches and development staff his job was GOOD COP,

The Manager is usually BAD COP, who'd sell his own mother for three points , ruthless and precise when it comes to picking the team and strives to win at all cost. They don't go for the popularity contest and say it how it is , be that to the players , board , owners or media. They are on borrowed time from the moment they are appointed and know being nice ultimately is not the main ingredient to producing results .

They chuck cups and saucers and football boots aka Ferguson , they state the players were not good enough and didn't perform to the expected levels aka Mourinho , they demand respect and show their achievements to back up their rants aka Clough, above all they don't compromise themselves, as by doing so they become the tail wagging the dog .

Bowyer inherited a shambles , Shaw is to be judged on turnover to expenditure , as the constant losses were unsustainable , Bowyer should be judged on results , however at present it does appear he will be judged on the most overly used word of the 2013-2014 season , which is stability.

All managers have their own style of play, some are like Allardyce which is upsetting the opposition and using any tool within his tool kit to win even if it means winning ugly , as 3 points is all that matters to him .

Some are like Mourinho who makes the whole club about him , and pretty much two fingers to everyone else ,

Others are like Ferguson who built a philosophy that no one is bigger than the club and it didn't matter who you was , cross him , or accept anything but the winning mentality and you was out the door .

Some are like Souness whose playing style and winning mentality made him a love him or loathe him character , but like Fergie he was the boss as David Dunn found out .

Rovers under Venky's have become a yes man culture . Speaking out , usually gets you a P45 , telling the truth ain't advisable , whilst any allies you can get be that supporters players or other members of staff will give you a chance of surviving in a job , however along this line the important things have been forgotten . We are a football club , it does not matter if you are a Sunday league team or a professional football club , winning is the name of the game, some clubs don't have all the tools to make that a given , I.e finances , resources, however that can't be said about us.

Cash we have wasted plenty , we have one of the best training grounds in the country and are a club enriched with a history of success which has us as the most successful town club in England .

When Jack Walker brought Kenny in , it was because he was top if the food chain and others within the world of football took him seriously , Don was doing an ok job but didn't have it in him to take us to the next level , no one took him seriously when he went trying to buy Lineker , Rovers needed that figure head to say "hey were deadly serious " a little like when coconut head tried signing Ronaldinho , I don't think people had laughed so much had Kenny been making that bid .

This season we have never looked like a team likely to go down , but at the same time I don't think we have looked like a team destined for promotion .

The target for the owners is Premiership football , so on that basis finish 7th or 17th we end up with the same result , another season in the Championship which is classed as a failed season.

Take away the managers like ability and look at the bigger picture does he have the traits to take us up next season ?

[Riverside67]

Spot on, it is having that real will to win and I think many of us are unsure if GB has that fire in the belly given the recent performances. We have just not been able to step up to the mark when the chances have presented themselves.

That inner desire defines the two teams managers who are in the automatic places this year.

I think next season is going to tell us if Bowyer has the mental strength to deliver. Jury is definately still out at the moment.

[47er]

I don't believe Bowyer has the wherewithal to take us up but I wouldn't want him sacked. He clearly has a lot to offer in terms of identifying young players and bringing them on.

However I still can't get it put of my head that if they do sack him as manager, they will make one huge stuff-up with the new appointment.

As for Sherwood, I am surprised to hear that he wants the job and don't know whether to believe it or not. Has he impressed with Spurs or not? Hasn't had enough time, not his team etc etc, really hard to know.

[Uddersfelt Blue]

Good post Glen but top managers or leaders as they are called in some organisations, have to be able to play GOOD COP AND BAD COP.

They need to get the best out of players through encouragement, coaching and example but not be afraid to make unpopular decisions when it comes to achieving results. Not all managers do this well because they don't find the right blend. I get the feeling that GB tries to accomodate most players.

What differentiates most good managers is that some find that recipe that gives them an edge over their rivals. Maybe GB does not have that.

Ultimately it comes down to the quality of the squad, which in Rovers case is not good enough yet to win the Championship however progress is being made.

[Riverside67]

Udders yes Souness loved conflict but overdid the bad cop bit to the degree he lost the respect of players at both Liverpool and Rovers.

It is a fine line getting that balance right.