[Archived] Back Or Sack?

[Ricky]

Good post that Glen. Agree with everything you said in it.

I think we are now at the stage where a change would be good to kick us on to the next level. Derby had the stability under Clough and people were surprised when they made a change, same could be said for Southampton last season. Both changes have worked out well. I'd argue that we are in a similar situation, Bowyer has built a decent team which should be able to push for a play off place next season. However with his cautious approach and 'friend of the players' nature I'm not sure if he could push us onto the next step. Bring in an experienced manager with a strong coaching team and push us forward.

Contract based on a low basic with a massive bonus for promotion. There are managers out there who would look at the backing that Bowywr has been given in bringing players in and on that basis they would quite fancy the job I'm sure.

[patrickvalery]

I'm sure there must be some on here who are privy to snippets from within the club. I'd like to hear how the players feel about Bowyer and how he conducts himself. When coco was in the hot seat we heard lots of people who seemed to have contacts within the club or dressing room and they were quick to tell us about how he managed (or not) the players. Did this come about because the dressing room was an unhappy place and the players were eager to get the word out even subconciously? The reason i ask that is because Bowyer does seem to have created a contented dressing room. The fact we hear so little nowadays from within the confines of the group suggest they are, for the most part, happy campers.

I know the immediate reaction to that is its a dangerous game to play. Content players can breed laziness and lethargy. But, and i am only hypothesising, maybe Bowyer had used the likes of Leon Best and even Alan Judge as examples to the others of what can happen if they don't toe the line. I appreciate they have hardly been subject to a public flogging, but Best has been frozen out and even Judge who was seen by many as being cosy with Bowyer, has been sent out on loan. Just after having his first child i think. OK its not quaking in your boots material, but Bowyer might see that as a line in the sand and it may have been relayed to the remaining players that if they don't come up to scratch they won't play here for long. As Glen said, we have exceptional facilities and players enjoy surroundings like that. The thought of less glamorous environments aren't too appealing to most players i'm certain.

When all is said and done there is not a formula which is nailed on to be a succes at every club. Each player is an individual and each collective group responds better to certain approaches. I wouldn't say that Brendan Rodgers has the toughness of Clough, Souness or Ferguson. You could argue that he gets away with playing 'good cop' and it has produced the results. But, and its only my opinion, he can do this because he has a man like Gerrard in his ranks. He drives that squad on and he sets levels of acceptable performance which back up what Rodgers preaches. This is such a key ingredient in good football sides. Ferguson's best sides had Keane or Robson or Vidic or Ince. Wenger's best sides had Adams or Vieira. Mourinho had Terry, he brought in Carvalho who he trusted, then Drogba stepped up. Dalglish in his Liverpool days had Steve McMahon or Hansen. Revie had Leeds littered with leaders like Bremner and Hunter.

These type of players are worth their weight in gold because they can adopt the 'bad cop' persona to either compliment and enhance his managers stance or to take that job away from the boss. I would argue that in todays football a manager can ill afford to adopt the tough guy approach at the top level because player power means it can back fire easily and the manager will pay the price. A clever manager will get influential players on side with him and let them maintain or improve standards. Because, after all, who is going to fire a Steven Gerrard?

All this waffle leads me on to Rovers. IMO, it is this leadership which we lack in abundance. Bowyer needs to get a close allie on the pich. Someone who can lead by example and when he sees the levels drop, rally the troops to up their game. The trouble is where can Bowyer get his man? He has spent his entire career to date coaching youth team level. I doubt he has contacts who he knows, who are what could be termed 'experienced professionals'. Not only that, but where can he find one who buys into everything he believes in? As i said, Mourinho found one in Carvalho and he was quick to bring him into Chelsea. He believed in Mourinho and he fought tooth and nail for him. I wonder how many natural born footballing leaders have even heard of Bowyer let alone believe in his methodology?

It seems looking from the outside in, that the closest we have to this type of player is Tommy Spur. He is the all action man in our side. But, lets be honest, he's been a good solid signing, but is he a leader of men? When Robinson returned it was no coincidence that results improved. I doubt half the squad had seen him play for Rovers and his inclusion, as a former England International, naturally lifted the side and gave them some belief. Sadly that was short lived. I speculate thats because Robinson isn't actually that good a keeper and the confidence soon ebbed in the him.

So all told, i am not ready to dismiss the ability of Bowyer just yet. But i will admit, to keep my personal support (which i am sure he cares greatly about!!) i would like to see significant improvement over the summer. I still don't believe he has defined how he wants his side to play football. I am not adverse to any particular style as long as it proves effective. But i'd like to see Rovers have some definition next season. I'd also like to see attempts made to sign an influential player. Someone who demands the respect of the players he plays alongside. Not necessarily a world beater (those days are long gone), but a strong character who can motivate and organise this young side at a moments notice on match days. I appreciate thats Bowyers job also, but i'm talking about moments such as going 3-2 up against Brighton and seeing out the game. Or the more recent points dropped at Wednesday. And before its implied, i'm not suggesting a Danny Murphy type player. Someone on the hunt for a final pay day can go hunt elsewhere please.

[OJRovers]

Serious questions for those wanting Bowyer out, who would you bring in? And who do you think the owners would appoint?

[Stuart]

Good post PV. Insightful comments re Rodgers and Gerrard. But it's only what we have been saying for a long time that we don't have any real leaders.

Candidates

Robinson: the older head but he doesn't have the ability to lead by example where we need it in the heart of midfield.

Hanley: hot headed, can lose control and needs someone with a football brain around him

Lowe: limited experience, I think Bowyer is grooming him to be our next captain. A long way to go but he is the one most likely to fly Bowyer's flag on the pitch. It's one of my criticisms of the pair of them that they both exude negative football, despite there being some potentially exciting players in the first team. Cairney, Conway, King, Rhodes.

After those three, we really struggle for any leadership.

Kean got rid of any leadership on the field, Bowyer isn't doing anything to replace them. And I'm not talking about PL quality either.

The two captains with the most appearances in the championship are Jason Shackell and Wes Morgan, second and first in the league respectively. The next two are Clint Hill and Richard Keogh. Their positions? Fourth and third. None of these players would have been too good for a Championship Rovers.

Source: http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/championship/mannschaftskapitaene/wettbewerb_GB2.html (according to whom Rovers don't even have a captain, let alone a leader!)

Good post PV. Insightful comments re Rodgers and Gerrard. But it's only what we have been saying for a long time that we don't have any real leaders.

Candidates

Robinson: the older head but he doesn't have the ability to lead by example where we need it in the heart of midfield.

Hanley: hot headed, can lose control and needs someone with a football brain around him

Lowe: limited experience, I think Bowyer is grooming him to be our next captain. A long way to go but he is the one most likely to fly Bowyer's flag on the pitch. It's one of my criticisms of the pair of them that they both exude negative football, despite there being some potentially exciting players in the first team. Cairney, Conway, King, Rhodes.

After those three, we really struggle for any leadership.

Kean got rid of any leadership on the field, Bowyer isn't doing anything to replace them. And I'm not talking about PL quality either.

The two captains with the most appearances in the championship are Jason Shackell and Wes Morgan, second and first in the league respectively. The next two are Clint Hill and Richard Keogh. Their positions? Fourth and third. None of these players would have been too good for a Championship Rovers.

Source: http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/championship/mannschaftskapitaene/wettbewerb_GB2.html (according to whom Rovers don't even have a captain, let alone a leader!)

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Serious questions for those wanting Bowyer out, who would you bring in? And who do you think the owners would appoint?

You're right of course. That's why all our speculation is just hot air. It doesn't matter who we think could or would do the job, our owners don't give a @#/?. If Bowyer were run over by the proverbial No 17 bus they'd appoint someone nobody on here would want.

[thenodrog]

Agree but most managers will argue about needing time. Another line direct from the FA school of coaching phrase book

Average tenure of a Championship manager is 1.85 seasons. Most don't resign so why give contracts any longer than that at the outside?

[tomphil]

Great post by GM. No I don't think for one minute he has it in him to take us up in what will be an even more competitive league next season. He is the new Parkes no doubt which isn't a bad thing but it isn't the way forward. I'd be quite happy with him overseeing a summer window he's decent at that. Will he hammer these players into shape on the training ground and hammer a winning mentality and good tactics, formations into them ? Not a chance, more of the same next season for sure.

[bazza]

It's a tough one regarding the manager ,

Take away the managers like ability and look at the bigger picture does he have the traits to take us up next season ?

Not sure of that. What puts me off replacing him is with whom?

I don't fancy any of those suggested so far.

I would have gone for Tony Pulis after he left Stoke but he was snapped up by Palace.

Therefore let's see what happens next season under GB. We may be terribly disappointed as most people expect or we might be pleasantly surprised.

[thenodrog]

I would have gone for Tony Pulis after he left Stoke but he was snapped up by Palace.

Pulis is another Allardyce only more negative.... and rem we have lots of supporters who think that we are too good for that type of a manager. Pulis would become Public Enemy No1 in double quick time with that lot behind both goals.

[somersetrover]

Others are like Ferguson who built a philosophy that no one is bigger than the club and it didn't matter who you was , cross him , or accept anything but the winning mentality and you was out the door .

Well that was Ferguson's philosophy until Rock of Gibraltar when he should have been out the door, however he decided that he was bigger than the club.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Average tenure of a Championship manager is 1.85 seasons. Most don't resign so why give contracts any longer than that at the outside?

Personally I liked the rolling 12 month contract that Mark Hughes had here. It worked for both parties. Many on here argue that Bowyer has only had twelve months so it would be decision time on his new contract.

[USABlue]

Simply put either this group of players or Bowyer does not WANT to get promoted. Dont throw away the lead against Wednesday and get theresult we should have.yesterday.and.we are.in the final spot. I was backing GB until xmas but.my support is rapidly waning. The only thing now that makes me want to keep GB is the fact that the lunes in pune will get it wrong again. Bowyers Dad needs to sit him down and straighten him out.

[Riverside67]

He would tell him that under Cloughie it was 100% commitment all the time. That's why he made great teams out of the players he had at his disposal.

If you want to over achieve you cannot cop out and Friday was a cop out just like Bolton, Bournemouth, Charlton, Birmingham etc etc.

[USABlue]

Ooops

[thenodrog]

Simply put either this group of players or Bowyer does not WANT to get promoted.

I thought that! Howe and McCarthy are the same. tbh I think the same applies to Mourhino and Pellegrino.... I dont think they want to win the Premier League either!

[Husky]

I've finally lost patience. I'm leaning towards getting rid of our super coach.

The post Yeovil match interview from GB actually made me angry. Mumbling how the fans should be happy we're not in a relegation battle after the previous 3 years. He's kind of like a boring girlfriend that you tolerated for sex, but now she's gone all celibate.

[Blandy]

I think the problem with Bowyer is he picks a starting eleven to not get beat, rather than an eleven to win the game!

[Stuart]

I've finally lost patience. I'm leaning towards getting rid of our super coach.

The post Yeovil match interview from GB actually made me angry. Mumbling how the fans should be happy we're not in a relegation battle after the previous 3 years. He's kind of like a boring girlfriend that you tolerated for sex, but now she's gone all celibate.

That says more about you than her!

Although a metaphor comparing Bowyer's football to sex is a bit strong too.

[CapeTownRover]

Sack

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[JBiz]

Sack

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If only it was so simple.

This is the point that still doesn't get across. You don't need to be a stat monger or a licensed and qualified coach to see how we should have been better this season. All you need is your eyes.

When considering this though, (and this is the part I do not understand) it is equally simple to see the precedent set by our owners. They will not hire the manager we need. Again, you don't need to be Alan Hanson to see they will replace anybody with a cheap rookies.

Look at the squad for Christ sake all experienced quality replaced my mediocre cheapo signings.(some decent I must admit)

So please consider this before your beg for the bullet. It's not the usual situ.

[JAL]

If Rovers are to progress they need to hire a manager who has played and won things at the highest level in this country and that IS NOT affiliated to an agency.

Ha !

As if !

[CapeTownRover]

To be honest Jbizzle, I have backed Bowyer, gave him a chance, but I think having a go at the fans is not on. He could have handled it in a better way imo, but alas he went out and had a go. He has done well, but he has made too many errors in crucial games when we needed it most.

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[AggyBlue]

Chaddy just pointed out that nicko has posted that sherwood wants the rovers job

Which Rovers job is that?

[Majiball]

Which Rovers job is that?

Maybe he'd be good at this one?

[CapeTownRover]

Doncaster Rovers?

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